joining two snatch straps?
Submitted: Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 18:18
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Member - Coyote (SA)
So whats the best way to join two snatch straps or for that matter an extension strap and asnatch strap? If you feed one eye through the other obviously they will be almost impossible to seperate and the idea of using a shackle brings sary images to mind if things go worng.. ideas anyone?
Reply By: Member - Andrew W (SA) - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 18:23
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 18:23
rolled up newspaper does the trick. Just feed it into the slip knot made by putting the entire length of one through one of it's eyes after putting that eye through the one of th other's eyes ;-)
My eyes hurt ;-)
Andrew.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 18:29
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 18:29
Yeah Andrew, that definately works but you didnt mention to read it first. Very difficult afterwards!!!
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 18:48
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 18:48
Use 4WDmonthly and you don't have to bother reading it first :)))))
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 18:51
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 18:51
FINALLY! someone found a use for it! :)
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Follow Up By: Member - Coyote (SA) - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 19:33
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 19:33
Funny.. thats what I thought when I read the mag and it said to use a rolled up newspaper.. but then I figured..
well it's givenme this usefull bit of advice.. I still subscribe to it (he waits for the heresy abuse) if for nothing ele.. you can never have too much advice... if I learn one thing from the nundreds of pages then I figure thats one lesson I avoided learning the hard way.. So to all those who "know it all" I hope you never need my help and I hope you enjoy "knowing it all" I love always being challenged andlearning new things all the time.. having said that.. ys thereis also the crap that needs to be filtered as
well..
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 19:42
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 19:42
Hahahaha Mike, that's besides the other use we should'nt mention in polite company :))))
Coyote, I only stopped buying the damn things a few months ago. Got sick of reading the same old same old every few issues. Undoubtedly I'll weaken in the future and try one again just for the fun of it :))))
Your attitude re learning is commendable. We don't stop learning till we stop breathing.
Regards
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 07:53
Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 07:53
Coyote.....
I'm with you on the magazine thing mate..... If I learn something new or even just see something that gives me an idea about something for my rig/camping gear/fridge then it is worth the subscription. Little things like that keep my mind open to learning.............
If I woke in the morning knowing that's a smart as I'm gonna get all day, because I know everything already, I would find that extremely boring!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 08:44
Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 08:44
I get the magazine for free from the local Council library.
Don't think they are too bad for free.
Usually only a month or two old as
well.
Of course, returning it to the library means I don't have it for the snatch straps :-(
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 09:07
Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 09:07
Oh pleeeeease!
So is everyone who doesn't like the same publications as you guys some kind of inferior smart arse who thinks he knows everything?
Mike Harding
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Reply By: Mike Harding - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 18:28
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 18:28
I keep a 6" piece of 1" dia. light dowel in the bag for that.
I wonder (and my mechanics isn't good enough to work it out) if you join two snatch straps together do you get twice the stored energy being imparted to the vehicle being snatched?
Personally I think large elastic bands should only be used as a, very, last resort, they frighten me!
Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Member - Duncs - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 19:04
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 19:04
I have done this.
I was in a sticky spot with the TrakShak behind the old GQ my mate had a Disco with awinch adn no trailer.
He winched his way through the bog. I drove in again and got stuck, as expected. We attached a snatch to
mine and the Disco hit it for all it was worth. Then we added a second snatch, using a rolled up tourist guide to
Cairns, as described above. The Disco then easily pulled me out.
Now I am not going to say that the was twice what one gave but it was more, and it did work.
Duncs
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 19:09
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 19:09
We have a similar length of wood in the kit Mike.... would only use it to put fish to sleep nowadays though... if I could catch fish that is :-(
....the thought of a bit of wood becoming a projectile worries me.....
As far as the two joined??? I dunno the correct answer... but would guess that you would get twice the energy, as you would get twice the stretch......... On a trip last year we had a vehicle stuck halfway up a rocky incline.... the closest point to have a recovery vehicle was 6 straps away.... so we joined them all together and recovered the stuck truck! It was a bit of an adventure! We had about 5 or 6 new members on this trip so it was their job to join the straps together to prove they hadn't forgotten it from the DAP day.....
And yes, they are a frightening thing aren't they?
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 20:54
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 20:54
MIke and Brian, its simple physics, double the length and twice the elasticity and retracted in the snatchies, however given that everything else is the same, speed and stuckdness of vehicles etc the energy is the same, just spread over more length. Size does become important here
Brian the wood would not become a more harmful projectile (than the strap) as its mass is small compared with the strap itself, and the "sail" area of the strap and its movement would take whatever with it.
Used gently a double or triple length strap is quite safe as the elastic length is looong and the vehicle needing extrication is eased out of its predicament in a calm and soothing manner.
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Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 23:59
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 23:59
You would only get the energy back that you put in.... of course, more run up before the 'TWANG' would probably mean that more energy was produced and put into the double length.
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 07:29
Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 07:29
Bonz....
I saw a strap break during a recovery last June at 'Cruiser Park, the guy didn't have a dampener on it... the end of the strap took out a rear light and dinged the back of the guys 'Yota...... so the strap becomes a quite dangerous projectile when this sort of thing happens... that's why I don't use the lump of wood anymore, don't want that flying around!
The time we put 6 together as descibed above, we used magazines where possible, from memory we used bit's of tree branch etc for the others.
And we had a dampener on each strap!! (forgot to mention that in my earlier reply!)
Royce.....
dunno about that. The strap's usually have 20% stretch.... that's the bit that gives them the ability to hold the energy..... so in a way, "more run up before the 'TWANG' would probably mean that more energy was produced".... but only to the maximum that the strap/s are capable of. If you hit the maximum and don't move the stuck vehicle, more/faster run up probably won't do it next time.
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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 10:59
Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 10:59
Mike,
Just thinking aloud
A snatch strap has 20% stretch. Say they are about 10m long, so with 20% stretch its 12metres long. It has 2 metres of potential "pull" when fully stretched. If the car to be recovered is pulled two metres, 100% of the strap's potential is used up.
Two Straps joined together are 20 metres long, and 24 metres long when strectched. With 4 metres of potential pull. If a car is pulled two metres you have only used up half of the potential pull. So it's better.
I'm thinking that the initial pulling force is the same for both, but that force is reduced twice as fast when only one strap is used.
R.
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Reply By: The Explorer - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 18:30
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 18:30
Hello
photos of correct way to join straps shown at bottom of this web page
Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 18:34
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 18:34
Nice page.
Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Member - Coyote (SA) - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 19:37
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 19:37
yeah..
well done
Whyalla 4WD club.. very professional looking page with good info etc.. will add it to my 'favourites"
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Follow Up By: Willem - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 19:43
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 19:43
Geez, they get a bit technical!
What was the dope doing driving on the seaweed in the first place.?
I don't have a snatch strap 'cos there is no point in having one if you are travelling alone. They are too plurry dangerous anyway.And when me mate joins me on a trip we have two
winches to do the hard work, if necessary
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Follow Up By: Member - Bware (Tweed Valley) - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 20:24
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 20:24
Sorry to be a bit picky but 'the photos of correct way...' doesn't show how you get from picture 1 to picture 2 for people that have no idea of knots or haven't done it before. It should explain or have a photo of how '
the loop of strap A is fed through
the loop of strap B, then
the loop at the other end of strap A is fed through
the loop of strap A' . Sure, now it's even more confusing! LOL
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Follow Up By: 1812 - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 20:50
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 20:50
Hey willem,
If you ran your cursor over the photo you will get a caption that says " Author doing research for this artical " Or something like that.
Why the negetive attitude some people will find this artical a LIFESAVER if they read it befor mabe using shackles ;-(((((
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Follow Up By: Member - Howard (ACT) - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 21:10
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 21:10
Re Willems qestion about why driving on the seaweed,sometimes no option eg
coffin bay easter 2003, after a big storm seaweed everywhere up to high tide mark, didnt have a lot of options.the local surfer who drove his troopy on the sand on the ocean side was still there the next morning. water only got half way up the rear windows. BTW he was still there the next afternoon waiting for a tractor but I think the tide got there first again.
It was bloody hard yakka on the seaweed .
cheers
Howard
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Reply By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 19:03
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 19:03
Yes the
Whyalla 4WD page linked above shows the correct joining method.... use magazines or newspapers to put between them if possible, timber or tree branches as a last resort.... NEVER join them with D shackles......
Just my opinion
Cheers
Brian
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Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 19:43
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 19:43
Cyote,
The method described above is correct and to answer the other half of your question is yes you can join snatch and winch straps together.
You can also get a snatch strap in 30mt length. The 30mt strap is good for the desert. The extra length allow the lead vehicle to be over the dune before the snatch takes place.
I was on a trip once down the
Vic High Country and it rain. We had to get the vehicles up a wet slope. We ended up joining everthing that we had. Snatch straps, winch straps, tree trunk protectors, but no chain or wire cable. We estimated we had 200mts of strap.
Just on the subject. When doing a snatch, it is more of a assist than a snatch. Taking off as quick as possible is asking for trouble. If the recovery does not work after 2 attempts than either more work has to be done on the track or it is the winch recovery.
Wayne
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 07:36
Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 07:36
"When doing a snatch, it is more of a assist than a snatch. Taking off as quick as possible is asking for trouble. If the recovery does not work after 2 attempts than either more work has to be done on the track or it is the winch recovery"
Absolutely spot on Wayne!!
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Reply By: Kiwi Kia - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 20:53
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 20:53
Coyote, send your email address to nzrees@yahoo.com and I will send you 4 sequential photos of how to join straps (I use them in a training manual).
If you can avoid it do not join kinetic (stretch) straps as the result is powerful enough to break something serious including human bodies. Preferably only join normal non-stretch straps onto a kinetic strap. If you have to use more then a vehicle length run-up for a recovery then try using a shovel first or a winch.
As has already been stated you can use a short bit of wood or a magazine etc. I use a short piece of the oval shaped section of wood from an old pick handle to stop the join getting to tight. The reason for the oval shape is so you can twist it and enlarge the knot for easier release after use.
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (QLD) - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 22:13
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 22:13
This is a post from a
Forum in USA
posted October 10, 2004 12:11 AM
My best friend Died today at age of 37 Over a basic simple mistake!
We where at our truckwars/mudbog for The Moonlight stompers On Duffield RD.
After he
broke his front end he desided to still play in 2wd. I had left and didn't see it happen but what happend was everyone got in a hurry and lots of trucks stuck with dozers and 6" straps all over the place ...
David was an advacate of safety But we'll never know what went through his head this time... But they
broke the cardanal rule os Hooking 2 (small) 3" straps together with a Clevis (wich is like a rocket and what killed him)and David was unfortunate to have the brand new strap on his Jeep (they where out of 6" straps that day so he bought a 3") so when the strap let loose from the other Jeep while David was truned around looking backwards being pulled out from the back...The Clevis hit him in the head and killed him instantly..
SO please use this as a warning and be more careful of using to small of a strap while pulling out people..and try to never use a Clevis in the middle..
David knew this but failed to do it this one time probley figureing he wasn't stuck back and it would be ok and he paid for it with his Life!
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Follow Up By: Redback - Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 14:19
Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 14:19
Yep have seen that before, nasty.
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Reply By: Member - George (WA) - Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 22:57
Monday, Mar 06, 2006 at 22:57
Getting away from snatch straps for a moment, I was told when using a winch with steel cable, always hang a bag or towel over the cable about half way between the vehicle and attachement, for both the hand winch and mechanical winch. the theory appears to be that if the cable breaks the bag or towel will absorb the impact of the broken cable instead of the person doing the winching.
Would the same principal work on a snatch strap ????
Cheers
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Follow Up By: V8 Troopie - Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 01:03
Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 01:03
Just 'hanging' over the cable sounds iffy to me, I would tie it on with a granny knot.
This is an idea that should be suggested to the myth busters, it'll be interesting to see how they would tackle this one and what the outcome was.
Klaus
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 07:47
Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 07:47
George....
Yes, dampeners should always be used on straps/winch cables. You can buy recovery kit bags that double as dampeners, but really, almost anything will do. Towel, shirt, trakky daks etc.... As Klaus says above, tie it on, don't just drape it over, it won't stay there if it isn't secure. The theory is that if the strap/cable breaks, the added weight of the dampener will cause the strap to fall to the ground. Some time ago, 4 Wheel Drive Monthly did a story on a comp event and their photographer managed to capture several photo's in sequence of a winch cable breaking under load..... the pics clearly showed the dampener doing it's job forcing the broken cable to fall to the ground.
Remember that if you join more straps together, every strap must have a dampener...... in an above reply I told of a recovery that involved 6 straps, I made sure all of them had dampeners on them!
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 08:01
Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 08:01
Winch cable isnt much of a problem as it has very little stored energy. place I worked had 2 snap and neither time did it go far. 1 just dropped to the ground and the other coiled a bit - neither got close to looking dangerous
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 08:05
Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 08:05
Personally, I wouldn't think it would be worth the trouble of even considering it ISN'T dangerous....... The little extra effort of putting a dampener on a cable or a strap could save someones life, or at least a panel or two on a car..... There is no chance that any recovery I would be involved in would not have dampeners....
Just my opinion
Cheers
Brian
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Reply By: Redback - Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 13:40
Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 13:40
OK here's what happens when you do it the wrong way
HOW NOT TO SNATCH
Baz
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Follow Up By: Redback - Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 13:42
Tuesday, Mar 07, 2006 at 13:42
Click on the link above for the full story.
Also the knurling imprint shows the force of the impact.
Baz.
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