hf radios

Submitted: Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 00:31
ThreadID: 31687 Views:4451 Replies:6 FollowUps:18
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I have just been given the opportunity to purchase a Kenwood HF transceiver TS-50.
Any thoughts?
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Reply By: hl - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 07:27

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 07:27
If you have a licence to use it, go for it.
If you are thinking of using it on other frequencies susch as VKS737, it is illegal to do so.
Cheers
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Reply By: wheeleybin - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 08:05

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 08:05
With respect I think the previous post leaves you up in the air as VKS 737 is not a frequency as such but it represents a group of frequencies used by that group.
You should get further advice of the subject and one such person that can assist you can be located by emailing : mervynv@bigpond.com.au or phoning 0429674950 and this person is extremely dedicated to this subject.

To broaden the scope of your info there are three main organisations in HF radio
VKS737 4x4 radio.
HF Radio Club .
Bush Telegraph or Rieds Radio Data .

I believe all organisations would be willing to advise you further.
Cheers Wheeley
AnswerID: 160179

Follow Up By: Mike DiD - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 08:40

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 08:40
To operate on any of these networks, you must only use equipment that has been type-approved by the Australian Government. Using non-type approved equipment means you can face a heavy fine and confiscation of the equipment - it is illegal.

There are few manufacturers of type-aapproved equipment for HF -
Codan, Barrett, Icom (ICF7000 only - do not confuse with IC7000)

Amateur Transceivers DO NOT have selcal or telcal (for making phone calls) which are very useful when using these HF networks.

The TS50 is only allowed to be used on Amateur HF bands, but to transmit on these, the operator must have an Amateur Licence. The Foundation Amateur Licence is new and easier to pass than previous Amateur licences and many clubs offer courses. With an Amateur Licence you can speak to amateurs worldwide.

Mike
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (QLD) - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 08:47

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 08:47
If he is a Member of VKS-737 then he should have no problems what radio he uses, it doesn't have to be Barrett or Codan, does it make any difference if it is a Kenwood, Icom, or a Qmac,
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Follow Up By: fox - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 09:15

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 09:15
Hi Doug,
Yes it does matter if it is a Kenwod or any other non type approved radio...regardless of the fact that he is a member of VKS and allowed access to those frequencies....The radio must be type approved for those frequencies.

The Kenwood & Icom ham sets are type approved for the amateur bands but not the outback radio freq's......."WHY" I hear you ask?

Well the Outback radios are all frequency locked for specific channels and you cannot select to move frequency up or down from where you are. Ham radios are all "frequency agile" which allows you to select a frequency by turning a tuning knob and dialling up any frequency you like in a ham band.
A modern, standard ham radio set will recieve on all the HF frequencies from 1.5-30 Mhz and will only transmit on the ham radio segments in that range.

So it will recieve on the VKS frequencies, but not transmit. To make it transmit on VKS requires an illegal modification to the radio to enable it for GCT (General Coverage Transmit). This modification then enables the user to dial up any frequency between 1.5 and 30 Mhz and start transmitting. This is also illegal... even for a licenced radio ham.... transmitting out of their allocated bands.

So, if you have a ham licence and a VKS licence, you still need 2 separate radios to comply with the laws set out by ACMA.

Great info from Mike in the post above and I have heard a few of the new Foundation ham licencees on air and they're having a ball on 7Mhz...as well as the rest of the allocated bands.

Cheers for now and hope this info helps.
Rick & Julie
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (QLD) - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 09:26

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 09:26
OK mate thanks for the correction .just that being an truckie from way back we tend to get the notion "what they don't know ,they don't worry about" but yeh here we are in 2006 and the Minister for Communications Helen #^*^ Coonan wrote back to me to inform that is no notr illegal to use foul language on CBs, and yet a responsible person can't use a particular radio on a particular frequency,There's something wrong somewhere .

Doug

ps
I got a job today to Century Mine so will be gone for a day and a bit,
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Follow Up By: Sargent Dan - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 09:32

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 09:32
Apart from the law saying you can't do it what's the technical reason for not be allowed to use an amateur radio on VKS737. There surely must be some good reasons.
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Follow Up By: Mike DiD - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 09:33

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 09:33
Here a quote from a VKS737 document

"All equipment used on the VKS737 Network shall comply with ACMA document ECR209/0. The use of Amateuer Radio Equipment is prohibited".
http://www.vks737.on.net/pdfs/cond_of_use.pdf

Mike
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Follow Up By: fox - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 10:54

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 10:54
Yeah Doug,
I quite agree with about the anomolies of legislation...try saying that after a few Rums....However the older I get the more I turn away from all those thoughts as they tend to frustrate me to no end. Coupled with the fact that no matter who we vote for in any given election....I won't change any of those anomolies....there's that word again.....

I tend to practise "escapism"...so when Julie and I are sitting by the embers of a camp fire, swigging on a glass of "Cooper Cordial", a wry smile comes to my face and....AHH...what was the question again???

We're working in the motels doing our relief until the beginning of May and then we're off to the Red Centre for 2 months...can't wait.

Cheers Doug and catch up when you get back
Safe travelling mate.
Rick & Julie
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Follow Up By: Sargent Dan - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 13:00

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 13:00
I searched the ACMA website for ECR209/0 and got No Pages match the criteria specified..hahaha

Just some more pain in the ass laws primarly designed to make life difficult for the average Australian. Oh they are so good at that aren't they.

My searching has revealed that the use of Amateur equipment is rife on various non amateur services, probably because the gear is cheap.
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Follow Up By: Mike DiD - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 13:31

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 13:31
Maybe it's like ADRs for vehicles - you have to pay the Givernment to download the document - so you can comply with their rules.

Mike
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 13:49

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 13:49
>Apart from the law saying you can't do it what's the technical
>reason for not be allowed to use an amateur radio on VKS737.
>There surely must be some good reasons.

Of course! The main one is so that companies such as Barrett and Codan can make big profits on their transceivers and have very little competition in a market so small no major company is going to bother trying to take any of it from them.

There are many licenced Amateur Operators who use ham sets on VKS 737 . Not too many people who already have one or two thousand dollars worth of sophisticated radio in their vehicle are going to spend another 3 or 4 k$.

Two other points:
I don't believe there is any such thing as "Type Approval" for Amateur sets (New Foundation licence, sort of, excepted). We are permitted to build our own transmitters and they (obviously will not be type approved) but we do have to comply with some technical requirements.

In an emergency it is legal (in fact one has both a moral and legal duty) to transmit on _ANY_ frequency.

I've often though of joining VKS 737 but consider I would be in a far better position to raise another Amateur _somewhere_ in the event of an emergency - I often have difficulty hearing the VKS 737 transmissions.

Mike Harding

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Follow Up By: Sargent Dan - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 14:28

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 14:28
ROTFLMAO

I think I understand the situation Mike. Thanks
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Reply By: fox - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 08:29

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 08:29
Yes the TS-50-s is a nice compact HF amatuer radio and if you're looking for a compact HF radio for amateur work then I would suggest the Icom 706 range of transceivers as they have the option of being able to remove the front panel and relocate the main body elswhere. Also the Icom 706 range have a tuner button on the front panel which is used to operate the optional antenna tuner. Things that the TS-50 won't do.

This facility can be used with great advantage to allow you to interface the Icom 706's with the likes of the robust Codan 9350 auto tune antennas which will automatically tune any frequency from 2-30Mhz. Great combo for ham radio..this is what I use in our 100 series Landcruiser.

Icom 706's can be found at reasonable prices on E-Bay...new ones for $1200 buy now and S/H for around half that.

However, I concur with the earlier post.....To use the Kenwod TS-50, or any other amateur radio, on frequencies other than the ham bands, means that the radio would have to be illegally modified to enable it for GCT (General Coverage Trasnsmit).

Hope this helps you out.
Cheers
Rick & Julie

AnswerID: 160181

Reply By: Mike DiD - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 09:39

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 09:39
If you want some advice on selecting, installing or using HF equipment for VKS737 etc, I suggest you join this Yahoo group

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/codan_outback_radio/

Mike
AnswerID: 160188

Reply By: sampsong - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 18:45

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 18:45
Thanks to everyone for the information. An interesting topic on which I'll need to follow up. I must admit that I was looking for a simple answer. There isn't one!!! Aagin, thanks.
AnswerID: 160263

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 19:20

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 19:20
How much are they asking for the TS50? If you don't want it I might be interested.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 19:33

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 19:33
PS. mike_harding@fastmail.fm

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Reply By: Arkay - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 18:57

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 18:57
One thing that has not yet been pointed out in the answers to this post is that with sets type approved OK for use on VKS737 you can get THOSE (factory) sets to legally include amateur frequencies access (sets supplied by Codan etc. themselves) so that a Licensed Amateur Radio Operator need only have one HF set for both uses - PROVIDED he/she buys the type approved set before getting an amateur only Icom or Yaesu or Kenwood, or whatever.
Enjoy!
AnswerID: 160265

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 19:16

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 19:16
What?

You mean they come round and search the house for a Kenwood hidden under the bed?

That aside: I assume one could only have a few selected Amateur HF frequencies programmed into the Codan as it's a channelised radio? This would be, pretty much, useless as Amateurs tend to Tx all over the bands and on odd frequencies multiples too. Additionally, do the Codans etc handle LSB Tx/Rx for frequencies under 10MHz?

Sounds, at best, a very limited approach to me?

Mike Harding
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FollowupID: 415000

Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 20:32

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 20:32
The Codan 8528 and NGT will operate in VFO mode within the Amateur Bands.

Mike
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 20:50

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 20:50
Are they finger variable speed VFO's
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 20:56

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 20:56
Do they cover the whole HF spectrum, all modes? Any idea what price they are? Google seems a bit shy of turning up any serious info on these radios?

Mike Harding
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FollowupID: 415042

Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 20:58

Monday, Mar 13, 2006 at 20:58
I don't own either of them so I don't have that detail, but if you go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/codan_outback_radio/

you will be able to ask owners of these sets.

Mike
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