Stealing Landcruiers - easy as,,,,

Submitted: Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 01:14
ThreadID: 31887 Views:22240 Replies:18 FollowUps:42
This Thread has been Archived
After gettting my 'Cruiser nicked, my son has done a heap of research on "How to Steal a Landcruiser". He's a qualified Electrical Engineer, specialising in Electronic Communications. He's also a performance car nut and has a lot of friends in the business. He knows his stuff.

I will try not to go into too much detail as we don't know who's reading this eh!

Fact 1: The Landcruiser is the most stolen 4WD in Australia. Everyone wants one but nobody wants to pay for one.

Fact 2: The recovery rate for stolen cars in Perth is 70%. For Landcruisers it's only 50%. If they do recover 'em, they get 'em back wrecked or stripped.

Fact 3: The 80 series is the most stolen Landcruiser out of all Landcruisers. the 100 series is next.

Now how do ya do it?

Well,,,,,,,,,all I will tell ya is that it's easy. One method is to do with ECU and a laptop or having your own ECU. Bust the lock out (old school, car theiving), get in the car, plug yer own ECU into it, Gone in about 1 minute and 30 seconds.

OR - someone copied your key while is was being serviced. The Toyota blanks cost
$20.00 and are available at,,,,,,,,,,,,shan't tell ya, but they' re everywhere.

Get the "new" blank key which has been copied from yours, open the door, stick in the ignition and do this and this and this and this (VERY simple steps), in the right order and the key now works like a new one.

Yer car's gone in 45 seconds.

This is all true but I really can't tell ya the full details can I??

There's a roaring business in the USA stealing Lexus and Porsches. These cars are advertised as 'unstealable'. It's a bloody joke. Manufacturers know this is happening and yet still don't fit entry alarm systems as standard. Immobilisers and transponder keys aren't worth two knobs,,,,,,,,,

My son has a very clever mate that can plug in a laptop into a cars ECU and programme that car's performance to do anything while it's being driven. He sells the gear to car makers etc! After all, we now have "Performance Chips" for just about all sorts of cars these days. So what makes us think that the professional criminal hasn't developed an "Car Thieving Chip"?? A professional thief puts in just as much research and development, study and thought as any other profession. Why shouldn't he - it's how he makes a living!

Remember "The Porsche Kid" in Perth about 2 years ago? When he was caught, he actually showed police how to steal a Porsche in 19 seconds!!

Total outlay for the gear to do all this? About $10,000.00. Steal one late model Landcruiser and yer about $50,000.00 in profit! Steal 10 and yer a half millionaire for about an hours work. Chances of being caught? Don't worry about it as the police don't seriously investigate car theft. In the USA it's a major crime - "Grand Theft Auto". Over here it's a big fine or 6 months in clink. Insurance companies pick up the pieces.

They used to say that "Crime doesn't pay". Well from what I've heard from police ,insurance companies and motor industry insiders in the last week - "Crime does pay and the hours are great!"

It happened to me. I believed the BS that Toyota or any other car makers spout.

Don't let it happen to you.

Bilbo.
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Damien - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 01:45

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 01:45
Bilbo, makes you wonder what is safe and sacred these days. Great post.

I wonder if people had their horses stolen in the colonial days like we have ours stolen these days?
AnswerID: 161437

Follow Up By: disco driver - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 02:55

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 02:55
Yes they did,
Difference is they used to SHOOT horse thieves in them days
Solved the problem, no repeat offenders
Can't do it now, unfortunately

Disco
0
FollowupID: 416180

Follow Up By: Member - Pud & Barb R (NSW) - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 03:03

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 03:03
I agree Bilbo, great post. Have been learning heaps from your posts. How do we keep the patrols safe from theft, no doubt you have looked into this now that you own one. Thankyou, your post about the V8 has planted the seed for us to go this way instead of getting a 4.2 We would have done this in the beggining instead of our 3 ltre, but we needed the auto as I have stuffed the clutch leg. This way we can keep the auto. Thanks, you never know how these posts will help someone else. Keep up your great investigative work and thanks again, you don't know how much this has helped us.
Barb
PS What is the phone # for the mob you are getting the V8 from, I wonder if it's the same mob Pud spoke to 2 months ago when our 3litre 1st blew up. Could be a good excuse to come west for a drive!. Now that'd be hard to take.
0
FollowupID: 416181

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 12:58

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 12:58
The phone number for Brunswick Diesel is 08 97261431. Mobile 0717931406. Ask for Greg. He owns the place. He's been doing Chevy diesels for 20 years.

You may have a problem with the auto box in that it may not be suitably geared for this V8 or it may not be strong enough. You'll have to discuss that with Brunswick. I don't know as I don't like auto boxes in an offroad truck.

I have no connection whatsoever with Brunswick. Although the amount of interest I've generated I may starting asking fer some commission ;)

I'm just happy that, in spite of some doubters, this message about car theft is getting through. I can emphasise this enoough - any security device in the general marketplace including the car maker's own system can be bypassed or disabled by a professional that wants' YOUR car.

I have no connection with any security company either! I'll be fitting my own device that is not in the general marketplace.

Bilbo (Les)

0
FollowupID: 416212

Reply By: Exploder - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 03:49

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 03:49
Unstealable , no such thing

I studied aviation a wile ago and on of my lectures was EX-South African airways, used to tell us some stories about how His and other friends BMW’s, Mercedes and so forth would get nicked and disappear, Basically if the car wasn’t located by sundown it was gone for good even with the tracking devises on them.

Told us one story about one of his friends New Unstealable BMW and the insurance company wouldn’t pay up after it was stolen, as it was “Unstealable” according to BMW. So they got the Cop’s the insurer a BMW and a Convicted car thieve to demonstrate how steal it. 1 Car thief+ Hammer 20seconds latter car’s security system disabled and all doors open (All without smashing a window or opining the bonnet), total of 1 min 20 or something car stolen.

Personally I think those fuel isolation locks are a good idea, I had one on my First car it was installed under the Mat below the driver seat and you wouldn’t even know it was there unless you looked hard, It needed one of those real funny looking fat keys with the funny looking pattern on it to open it and alloy the fuel to be sucked from the tank, so you could start the Car for all of 30 seconds then it would just stall when the Fuel in the line ran out.
AnswerID: 161444

Reply By: Member - Ivan (ACT) - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 08:20

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 08:20
Bilbo - I'm not doubting that there's not something behind what you say - and I understand that you don't want to (and shouldn't) post too much info here - but the two examples you give are pretty weak.

Which car would survive a key being copied while being serviced...

Which car would survive an ECU being replaced...

I enjoyed the rest of your post ;-)
Cheers,

Ivan
2008 D4D Prado

Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 161452

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 12:42

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 12:42
Ivan,

You go on right ahead and stick your head in the sand mate. My $60,000.00 'Cruiser was stolen and it was serviced in Toyota Main Dealer ten days before that. Go figure,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

ECUs can be bought easily though not cheaply, keys are cheap and can be copied - trust me. Since the theft, I've spoken with experts in the field that deal with ECUs and car security for a living. I've also "entered the fringe of the criminal world" to get this info.

As for weak examples - how much evidence do you want?? After all you could be a car thief???

I will not give out precise methods on a public forum.

Bilbo (Les)
0
FollowupID: 416210

Follow Up By: Member - Ivan (ACT) - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 13:25

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 13:25
Hang on Les, you're being oversensitive..

I didn't disagree with anything you said - just that the examples apply to any vehicle at all - they are not unique to a Toyota..

I leave my car keys with every service agent that works on my car - there is no other way....

If someone is going to swap out my ECU, it doesn't matter whether I have a Toyota, Nissan, or BMW..

I agreed that you shouldn't post 'specifics' in public - and didn't ask for them..

My head is not in the sand mate - if there were ways that could be suggested which I could use to 'protect' my car, then I'd be keen to hear them.
Cheers,

Ivan
2008 D4D Prado

Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 416219

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 23:14

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 23:14
Ivan,

Oversensitive I may be, but in the current circumstances -cut me some slack will ya.

Perhaps I didn't make the point too well, but this car theft business applies to all cars that have known, generally available method of immobilisation or entry security. That includes the normal, standard manufacturers stuff or after market devices.

DON'T leave your normal keys with any dealer. Just give 'em the valet key. See below for other people comments on how that works.

If you take a set of normal keys to a dealer then he can programme a newly cut key to be used as set of new (spare) keys. But if you take a grey ( in the case of it being a Toyota) set of valet keys then they will refuse to programme a newly cut key blank for you.

But key entry is not the only way a car can be stolen. That's only one way. Read all other text to get a general picture of the other methods.

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416315

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 01:00

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 01:00
Hi
What happens if you take it to the service centre of the place you brought it from?

Richard
0
FollowupID: 416479

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 05:01

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 05:01
Richard,

I don't understand what difference this makes. Can you elaborate please?

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416492

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 23:59

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 23:59
Bilbo
Well you brought it from them wouldn't they already have the codes?

It doesnt matter were you take it, there out their

Richard
0
FollowupID: 416780

Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 08:45

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 08:45
So Bilbo .................. Whose do you have your eye on?.................
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

AnswerID: 161458

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 13:47

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 13:47
Bonz,

I honesetly wouldn't have the inclination to do something like this. It's goes against everything in my nature.

Plus, I have heard that " Prison is OK - ya get 3 square meals and day and all the drugs 'n sex you can handle!

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416221

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 01:02

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 01:02
Hopefully not mine I've only been to Prison twice.

0
FollowupID: 416480

Reply By: GEG - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 10:20

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 10:20
im really worried now...delivery of my new cruiser is expected on Thursday next week...What should I install to keep my belongings safe?
&
Does anyone know if I can get my new cruisers windows tinted darker than the street legal limit that the car yards offer...?
In sth east Qld
AnswerID: 161472

Follow Up By: Doodle - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 13:21

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 13:21
GEG,
Marty’s Mobile Tint on the Gold Coast. Did my wife’s car (good job - very dark - 2 shades beyond). I don’t have the phone number as I out of Oz until next month.
Doodle
0
FollowupID: 416217

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 14:15

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 14:15
There's a window tint on the market that is smash proof, it's iron bar proof. I had it put on my Honda Accord. It ain't cheap but it tsops e'm breaking the windows to get in.

I think Scotch 3M make it. I'll be putting it on the new Chevy'd Patrol.

If ya wanna blank out the rear windows (b pillar to C pillar) competely, get two of those el cheapo sun screen mats, open the rear windows of yer 'Cruiser, insert the sun screen, get it nice and flat against the glass, close the window and clamp it shut. This will hold the sun screen in place while you mark it with a felt tip pen. Open the window & remove the sun screen. Cut out the marked shape and cut the sun screen to size. Put it in back into the window and clamp it with the closed window.

Don't open that rear window ,,,,,,,,,otherwise ;)

Bilbo

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416224

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Monday, Mar 20, 2006 at 01:46

Monday, Mar 20, 2006 at 01:46
Sorry, make that "C pillar to D pillar" on a Landcruiser.

You get the general idea.

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416323

Reply By: Member - Omaroo (NSW) - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 10:45

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 10:45
Makes you wonder why ECU's and their wiring harnesses don't optionally have all the wires mixed up and re-arranged so that they suit each other but not a foreign ECU just plugged in willy-nilly. Makes all the wires in the harness black so colour coding means nothing. Sounds logical doesn't it?
AnswerID: 161474

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 14:21

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 14:21
Well, I suppose it's the same old story - or two stories.

One it's a PIA for car makers to make each car's wiring unique. Two, each unique set of wiring would drive auto electricans mad and three (I lied), professional car thieves would work out how to get araound it eventually. They carrry out research just like any other profession such as doctors and engineers. It's thier living.

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416225

Follow Up By: Member - Omaroo (NSW) - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 15:12

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 15:12
Oh, I don't know...

If you had, say, 250 diffent wiring combinations that were registered with and by the manufacturer, and they all had a numerical key number of some sort it wouldn't be difficult at all. If you are legitimate all you need is the combination map and you could fix or replace the unit.

If you didn't have the map and the time (i.e. gone is 60 seconds.....) you couldn't hope to carry around 250 ECU's all wired up to a different combination and have the time needed to discover which the right one was.
0
FollowupID: 416236

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 15:59

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 15:59
Omaroo,

Tell Toyota, Jeep and Nissan and by the look of your list, Land Rover - not me. I've lost mine mate.

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416243

Reply By: Member No 1- Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 12:13

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 12:13
it would be nice to know how to programe a new key without going thru toyota
AnswerID: 161485

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 14:31

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 14:31
Nudenut,

I could tell ya, but I'm not gonna. I simply can't. Just make sure you put something on your car that no other bugger's got.

Sorry mate.

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416226

Follow Up By: Exploder - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 16:14

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 16:14
All of 20 seconds on the wonderful tool called the Internet.

Something like this

May need the duplicate ECU for this one
Add Duplicate Key
1. Simultaneously depress and release brake and accelerator pedals 1 time.
2. Insert existing master key into ignition.
3. Within 15 seconds depress and release accelerator pedal 5 times.
4. Within 20 seconds depress and release the brake pedal 6 times and remove key.
5. Within 10 seconds insert new key into ignition.
6. Within 10 seconds depress and release the accelerator pedal 1 time.
7. After 80 seconds new key is registered and security light goes off.
8. Remove new key and depress and release brake pedal 1 time.


0
FollowupID: 416247

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 18:17

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 18:17
Exploder,

You said it, not me.

You can cop the flak for that one mate. I'm glad I didn't put it up there.

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416268

Follow Up By: Exploder - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 19:57

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 19:57
Prepared for it.

Just thought I would demonstrate how quick it is to find the little procurers, that took as I said 20second’s to find with just a few key words and not even trying.

Just image what you would turn up if you spent a day's doing searches sifting throe info, doing specific searches, go hang round Pro-Formance car clubs for a wile you would learn all sort’s of tricks on by-passing stuff.
0
FollowupID: 416285

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 01:08

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 01:08
Exploder
That sounds like a Play Station 2 cheat code
0
FollowupID: 416481

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 07:56

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 07:56
but does it work?...anyone tried it?...where's a landcruiser mechanic...surely we have one as a member?
0
FollowupID: 416498

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 13:06

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 13:06
Nudenut,

See the post at the bottom of this thread from "TUFF", he's a Toyota mechanic.

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416554

Reply By: Member - Troll 81 (QLD) - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 12:34

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 12:34
I think getting a gear lock or a steering wheel lock might put some people off when they see it.

AnswerID: 161488

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 13:12

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 13:12
Troll,

Have a look at some car security/theft sites. Do some research. A steering lock takes about 10 seconds to break - they don't break the steering lock off, they cut the steering wheel rim.

Cost of a Landcruiser? Say $65,000.00. Cost of a new steering wheel? Say $500.00. You can still drive that car with a break in the steering wheel.

Gear Lock? A lock is a lock is a lock. It can be picked, broken or smashed. If it can be seen then it's even quicker. You'll delay 'em but eventually you won't stop 'em.

These guys don't mess about. They know how to make money out of car theft. Don't write off a thief as unintelligent, dumb or uneducated just 'cos he's thief. He's just a guy that reckons it's easier to stel than it is to work for living. Thats' what he does fer crust - just like you 'n me.

In the UK they are now selling those locked upright post things that you see in secure car parks. They sit in a concreted post holes and have a lock with which you can have 'em upright or flat to allow the car in and out. These are now being sold to just the "Ordinary Joe" homeowners for installation in thier driveways!! That's how bad things are getting overseas.

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416216

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 15:00

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 15:00
Bilbo,
This is what confuses me......"they know how to make money out of car theft".......

Now I didn't come down in the last shower, but I honestly can't understand how they get $50K (or whatever $$$) for your's and other people's stolen cruisers etc.

If you, me or any other logical-thinking person is gunna shell-out that sort of dosh for a used 4by, surely we'd all be very careful to check the bona fides of the seller and the vehicle? It's not as if you're just buying a hot tellie down at the pub or something. On the other hand, if they're gunna strip the vehicle and sell the parts, they'd just about need to have their own wreckers shop or similar....it'd take forever to sell all the bits and pieces individually via ebay or somewhere similar, wouldn't it?

I guess what I'm trying to say is " where, logically speaking, is your 100 series RIGHT NOW and how are the mongrels gunna get $50K for it?" Okay, so it's in some turkey's huge shed on a property or in a wharehouse on an industrial estate etc.....still confused about how they turn such a big ticket item into cash etc. I suppose it could involve re-birthing etc; that may be a part of the equation.

Cheers mate and I'm still drooling at the thought of the 6.5 in the Patrol.

Roachie
0
FollowupID: 416234

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 15:56

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 15:56
Roachie,

Let's assume that they strip the car and sell the parts. With the price of spare parts for cars today if you attempted to build a car out of parts instead of bying one it would cost you about 2.5 times the price of buying a complete car from a dealer. So there's a market, a good market in spare parts for a start. Just ask any insurance crash damage assessor. you can rent a shed over here for about $300.00 a week. Or there's plenty of "bent" wreckers around. I was a mechanic years ago ;)

Let's now assume that they didn't strip it. As far as I know there is no national database for stolen cars in Australia. I'll stand corrected on that. But I beleive it's only intra-state data collection and intra-state stops placed on stolen cars being registered. However, what compunds that problem is that there is little or no co-operation between states when it comes to policing. That is evident by the number of escapees and criminals that end up interstate in rag time and never get found for years if at all.

So how easy would it be to take a car across the WA border, de-plate it, get it registred again in say South Australia with the original VIN numbers and engine numbers and sell it as a South Australian registered car at full retail price? Indeed, my 'Cruuier was low mileage, seconhand when I bought it from a Toyota dealer here in W.A. and it came from reposession auction in NSW!! And it had W.A plates on it - re-registered in W.A see?

My son friends runs his own business doing performance engines, has his own dyno and a damn good reputation in Perth. One of his creations, a Nissan GTR Skyline that did 530 BHP at the rear wheels vanished one night. This car was a work of art.

It was found after being checked at a state border post on the back of truck that was supposed to be carrying fruit. The truck driver didn't even know it was in the seatainer!!

How organised is that?

Steal 3 cars month and yer making good wages for very little work but I will admit, a great deal of risk if you get caught. Or is it?

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416242

Reply By: Shane (QLD) - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 13:07

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 13:07
Maybe Hyundai have a good idea with the Terracan. It has an Alarm + Immobilizer. You can lock & unlock the vehicle with the Key & the alarm won't go off, but if you use the remote transponder to lock the vehicle it must be used to unlock the vehicle or the alarm will sound. Putting the key in the door & opening it sets off the alarm. It also disables the ignition for a period of time should you open it with a key after arming with the Remote. The alarm also works on all doors, bonnet & boot.
AnswerID: 161491

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 14:48

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 14:48
Shane,

I'm afraid you're missing the point of all this mate. Perhaps I'm not making myself clear.

If it's man made, if it's in the general market place, if it's electronic or steel - with a combination of all of those 4 then it can be bypassed, broken and GONE!!

They are doing this in the USA & Europe in epidemic proportions. Car makers, car security firms and insurance companies won't tell you this. It's in thier interests not to tell you. There are far more valuable cars than your Hyundai out there with far more sophisticated security devices and they get stolen all the time 'cos there's big money to be made.

What does a stolen car cost? Nothing. What's the price of your Hyundai? $30.000.00. That's $30,000.00 wages on wheels to these people.

A Lexus? $150,000.00

A Sahara 'Cruiser? $80,000

A Porsche? $180,000

2 or 3 years wages for guys like us.

Good money eh?

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416230

Reply By: 100 Series - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 14:00

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 14:00
In relation to the ECU business can you give me some more details?

I have a 2001 landcuiser and I only have the grey valet key that came with the car when I bought it at auction. I then went and bought a blank key fron Toyota for $86 dollars, they then told me to go to a locksmith and have it cut to suit and bring it back so they can program it.

So I then go and get it cut at John barnes locksmiths at Woolongabba and took the thing back to get programmed. I give them my key (the only one I have) to program the new key and they tell me that my key is the valet key and the new one can't be programmed off it. They tell be I need a new ECU and that this will cost me $1000 +.

I tell them to shove it but this still doesn't help the fact that I only have one key that can't program a new one.

I looked into getting the immobiliser disabled and I was told that this cannot be done, so if anyone has any details on how I can get out of this situation on the cheap so that I have some spare keys I would love to hear about it.

If anyone knows of a person that can work on this situation I.E replace what has to be replaced so that i can have some spare keys can you pass their details on to me? I am in Brisbane. Thanks
AnswerID: 161497

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 14:55

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 14:55
100 series,

See what I mean about car makers and dealers. They are telling you what they told me. That it can't be done - LEGALLY.

Criminals aren't that way inclined.

You now know how easy it is to get a Toyota key cut. Anyone can then get into that Cruiser.

The rest is easy - programme the key by ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

or use your own ECU to drive it away by,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I can't tell ya mate. Programming an ECU is easy if you are computer whizz kid, plugging it in to another cars ECU is easy if ya know where to find it.

The entry intrusion alarm is old hat to a professional car thief.

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416233

Follow Up By: Member - Russell B (SA) - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 21:20

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 21:20
lol
You only have the valet key?

Bought second hand?

Yours will probably be the next stolen.

:):)

sorry couldn't help myself.

I recon I would be spending the $ changing locks etc.
Russ


Life-often hell but never boring.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 416297

Reply By: Member - Andrew W (SA) - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 14:26

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 14:26
Hiya Bilbo,

Intriguing question about the transponder keys - there is heaps of material on the web if you google it:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?p=372915

so not telling us the secrets you found is hardly likely to make a difference to the threft industry. But thanks for bringing up the subject - I'm off to make sure my keys are true masters and to have an additional master made.

I can't see the apprentice mechanic recoding a new key whilst your vehicle was being serviced given all the things he would have to do ... without being seen.

Conspiracy theories are just that - theories. If you have evidence, then the cops would surely be interested - yours would just be one of 10 or is it 100 LC's that have been stolen in Perth?

Given the low numbers of stolen LCs you are talking about any variation in the averages across states or between vehicles is probably not statistically significant anyways.

Ciao for now
Andrew.
AnswerID: 161501

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 15:20

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 15:20
Andrew,

The cops aren't interested in car theft. The insurance investigator is an ex senior detective. He's told me that policing is not what it used to be. Unless it's murder or something similarly serious they don't have the resources to check things out. There's just too much crime out there. These days investigations are just not done on the ground. They do what's called "processed investiagtion". The case notes are put on all computers across the state including police cars. They then simply wait till it does or doesn't turn up. If it does, then they get the credit. If it doesn't, then it's down to the insurance company. The philosophy here is that "If ya can afford to buy it then ya can afford to insure it. Not our problem. We couldn't find it".

Even when I asked 'em if they would be paying me a visit, they weren't even interested enough to come and talk to me or visit the scene. I was just another statistic.

When my son's performance car was stolen about a year ago, his keys were takan as part of a burglary. The car was stolen along with other items. The police turned up at his house 2 WEEKS later, talked for 3 minutes and didn't even fingerprint the drawers and cupboards. The car was found along with the driver at 03:00 am on The Great Eastern Highway wrapped around a power pole with slightly bent but alive driver.

Basically - "It turned up"!!!

And you yourself have seen how easy it is to get info off the 'net about stealing cars. So if anyone wants to know what I know - Google it mates.

Hmmm,,,ten 100 series stolen in Perth eh? That means there's about fifteen 80 series stolen as well. That's an average of say $35,000.00 car. That's $875,000.00 in Toyota Landcruisers alone! So if we throw in Commodores, Falcons, Mitusbishis etc we have quite a large dollar trurnover here. All at next to no outlay. How dya like to have a business like that?

Yeah, I'm just a statistic. My point here to all of you is to make sure you're not one as well.

Bilbo

0
FollowupID: 416238

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew W (SA) - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 15:53

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 15:53
Hiya Bilbo,

I think you'll find the cops interested in theft - of anything.

They just know better than you or me, what effort is best to make in investigation and what is a waste of time.

Intelligence led policing is a big but current buzzword, but it means using intelligence (data gathered from all sorts of places) to determine where to make the investment in policing, crime fighting etc.

I note that in SA last year there were just 4 (four) 100 LCs stolen and three were found - this is not enough to draw any conclusions about, but it would tend to suggest that there is not a conspiracy amongst SA Toyota Dealer apprentices.

http://ncars.on.net/docs/sa_chapter_2005.pdf

They don't seem to publish the WA ones - just a summary:

http://ncars.on.net/publish.asp

I can't see the WA stats but there is likely to be more 100 LCs in Perth from my observations and so, more would be stolen - but still a very low number. There are unlikely to be 10 stolen and rebirthed or sold other ways - I think the numbers would be pretty small.

Sure it's an issue, sure we commiserate (and I have had a car stolen and used in ram raids about 10 years ago too so I know the pain), but is it a Landcruiser or Big 4x4 problem particularly? Doesn't look like it.

Ciao for now
Andrew.
0
FollowupID: 416241

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 18:55

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 18:55
Andrew,

You're taking the micro view mate. This problem of a veritable car stealing industry out there should be viewed on macro scale.

These things are stolen to order. Want a 'Cruiser? Want a Porsche? Want a Beemer? What's the market look like for Holden HSVs this next 3 months ?

These players study things just like I study the Stock Market.

I'm trying to tell people that it happened to me with a "very nice 'Cruiser". A salesman dream was this vehcle. Immaculate and very well fitted out. It had done only about 400 kms on dirt - if that, had only 100,000 kms on the clock. It stuck out like dogs bawlls in any carpark you care to mention. It was targeted. Just like any other high priced vehicle that gets stolen.

But it's your funeral mate, not mine. My wake is over and done with. Ignore good advice at your peril.

I'm going back to a Nissan with a Chevy V8 that nobody except a 4WD enthusuiast would want. And 4WD enthusiasts don't steal another enthusiast's car. Plus there's only a limited market for such a modified car.

Check out "Exploder's" follow-up above. He's told all and sundry one method, except you can replace the "maybe need a spare ECU" with "use a laptop."

Your words - "using intelligence (data gathered from all sorts of places) to determine where to make the investment in policing, crime fighting etc."

That's exactly my point. There's not much return on investigating stolen cars as the insurance companies do quite a good job of that themselves. What a way to save precious resources and tax payers money!! Let the insurance company find thier own stolen cars

The insurance investigator that interviewed me was an ex senior detective. He would be charging the insurance company abround $70.00 dollars an hour. What does it cost to run a policeman? About $110.00 an hour. I know labour rates. They have to include all sorts of oncosts -payroll tax, workers comp, police cars, police stations etc,etc. All gotta be paid for. Calculating overall labour costs was part of my job before I retired. So it's cheaper for the police force to forget about stolen cars and just wait and see if a passing patrol car picks it up -- as they did with my son's car, a Nissan Sylvia.

Car theft is a property crime so the insurance company can do that. The police only do "human crime" these days as there's no private industry that investigates murders and bashings. And here in W.A they can't ven get that right!! But that's getting off the topic.

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416276

Reply By: Rock Crawler - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 19:46

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 19:46
might look at getting a tracking device , then at least we can catch the P R I C K S
AnswerID: 161542

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 22:45

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 22:45
Rocky,

I too thought of a GPS tracking device for the next truck. But then I had a deep think about it. GPS's have to "view" the sky, at least a little bit, in order to work That means they must have at least part of them exposed. These GPS tracking can devices can be seen on the Trimble website. I'm sure there are others that make 'em, like Magellan and Garmin. So every car thief knows what they look like. He knows what they do. So at the first opportunity he rips it off and chucks it in the bush.

The golden rule ??

"If it's available on the open market then they know how to get around it".

GPS trackers are not meant for deterring thieves. They are used for tracking commercial vehicles as they go about thier business. Particularly trailers from trucks that get left in truck parks all over 'Oz".

They may be useful in tracking down where the car is when it's been stolen and abandoned by the avergae joyrider. But for finding vehicle that's been stolen by a dedicated car thief it's no use at all. And dedicated car thieves don't steal $5000,00 Ford Lasers.

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416312

Follow Up By: Rock Crawler - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 22:56

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 22:56
they can only the GPS antena but they can be hidden well . when there off with your car , there not going to be looking for a tracking device.

if they realize that it has one , it aint that simple to remove , especialy if it is well hidden , also they can be made to disable the vehicle. No thief want to be sitting around in the middle of the road when the car has stopped.

Also a remore pager works great for knowing the car is gone .
0
FollowupID: 416314

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Monday, Mar 20, 2006 at 01:39

Monday, Mar 20, 2006 at 01:39
Rocky,

The home built and installed mobile phone/pager device is a good one because it can be fitted uniquely. The battery in the mobile phone can be made to activate any number of things by powering a relay to then make use of the vehicle's own battery. This can then kick in with a major power supply that can stop (or start) any number of things on a modern vehicle. You can also listen in to the barstewards as well!

Downside is that you need to maintain a mobile phone account for that phone - but you'll never make any calls on it. Only calls to it.

It can be hidden in any panel, made silent, made "darK" (the keyboard doesn't light up) and it can be made and fitted in a unique position that suits your vehicle and yours alone.

The phone's location can be tracked but only by the police via Tesltra using the phones internal ID code. It's position can be triangulated but not quite as accurately as a GPS.

Now we're thinking eh!

There's some good articles about it on Wikepedia - try Google.

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416322

Follow Up By: GEG - Monday, Mar 20, 2006 at 23:19

Monday, Mar 20, 2006 at 23:19
So,

Does this mean when they steal the vehicles, they change the rego numbers, the chassis number and the vin too?

I just dont know many people who would purchase a car for those amounts (greater than 20k)without some financed facility, and finance companies need to make sure vehicles have clear title before alowing a lend on such an expensive asset...AND if you did have the spare cash,would nt you be checking revs out first?

Or have i missed something here?
0
FollowupID: 416469

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 04:51

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 04:51
Geg,

As I said previously, there is no Australia wide register for stolen cars. As you've mentioned "REVS", then yer prolly in W.A. Similarly, there's prolly the same system in all states - but there's no connection between the various states' systems. At least I'm 99% certain that's the case.

When a car is stolen here in W.A., "stops" are placed on everything to do with it. Ya can't re-new the rego on it, it's flagged with the police, it's flagged with most reputable car dealers and it's flagged with REVS.

But if it goes interstate, it's just the same as brining a car over here from Victoria. Take the W.A. plates off it, get it registered in S.A.. Sell it as a "legit" vehicle with S.A. plates on it and it's then forever lost in the system as a normal car in S.A. - because that car won't be flagged as stolen in S.A. It will be just another car that's come from another state. They don't check between states.

If anyone has any info on this, I'll stand corrected. But that's the info that I've been given.

Mind you, changing a VIN number, compliance plate and engine number is not that hard. It's been goiing on fer decades. Get the ID off a wrecker, put it on your stolen car and it can be registered. We non-criminals think that this can't be done. It can and it is done , all the time. We think that there are laws thet have checks and balances in 'em - they don't, because criminal get past these on a daily basis. Think like a crim, not like a law-abiding citizen. So once you've done that you simply go through the normal procedure of getting a set of "legit" plates for it.

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416491

Follow Up By: GEG - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 07:23

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 07:23
I will get this point checked out at work today...

I had been led to believe that revs is national.
0
FollowupID: 416494

Reply By: Col_and_Jan - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 20:54

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 20:54
Gday Bilbo,

Am reading this with interest as I own a 100 series.

Do you suggest the "factory" add-on alarm system, or are you recommending some other (non standard) way of disabling the vehicle to make it difficult for the prospective thief.

I have installed a couple of off the shelf alarms on our other vehicles, and they are similar in their methodology, which means they can be quite quickly bypassed - I have had to do this with the sons car once when he lost his keys.

Hope the new V8 goes well

Col
AnswerID: 161558

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Monday, Mar 20, 2006 at 01:57

Monday, Mar 20, 2006 at 01:57
Col,

Well you passed with flying colours mate. You bypassed the alarm in yer son's car and you don't even do it fer a living. See - it's easy isn't it.

I recommend a non-standard way of protecting your car. Your way and yours alone. Something they haven't got the time to go looking for.

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416324

Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 21:18

Sunday, Mar 19, 2006 at 21:18
Professional car thieves work by knowing exactly what the weak points in each type of car so they can quickly get in the car and drive away, so there is minimal chance of being caught.

To protect your car you need to make it non-standard so they can't drive it away quickly.

In a previous Petrol vehicle I owned, I put in a concealed switch that killed the Ignition signal between ECU and Ignition coils - you simply couldn't start the car.

These modifications need to be hidden so anyone servicing the vehicle doesn't notice the mods. You need to be able to disable the mod when it goes in for service so it appears as a standard vehicle.

It takes a bit of time but I always remove GPS, CB etc before putting it in for service so it is less of an obvious target.

Mike
AnswerID: 161566

Reply By: geocacher (djcache) - Monday, Mar 20, 2006 at 01:51

Monday, Mar 20, 2006 at 01:51
You don't need any or all of the above.

In Melbourne the HSV's and Porsche's go missing in very little time with an oil can and a tow truck. Stolen to order as mentioned earlier.

Tilt tray is already up when they pull up. Oil on road in front of each tyre while hooking up. Pull vehicle up and tilt down driving off.

Gone. Worry about starting and opening it in the privacy of the shed/warehouse.

Dave
AnswerID: 161605

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Monday, Mar 20, 2006 at 02:05

Monday, Mar 20, 2006 at 02:05
Geo,

And that's another that I read about.

It pays to listen to crims sometimes. Thier motto is "If it can be moved ( and that doesn't mean just by the engine) then it can be stolen"

So if it can roll or slide, it can be stolen.

(Hmmm,,,,,,,,,,must be brake mod that I can do somewhere,,thinking, thinking,,,,,,,)

That's why those " lay down car park posts" are becoming so popular in peoples driveways overseas. But how long will it be before the inevitable happens. It makes yer think don't it.

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416325

Reply By: TUFF IFS LUX - Monday, Mar 20, 2006 at 17:38

Monday, Mar 20, 2006 at 17:38
Just a couple of suggesstions here, The first as mike said earlier would be to fit 2 or 3 hidden ignition kill-switches in various locations that wouldnt be obvious or readily visible that only you know about - run some extra wiring so you aren't limited to keeping them under the dash near the steering coz that would be the first place to look. Put one just inside the rubber flap of the slit around the hand-brake lever so you cant see it but you can still flick it by pushing your finger in. I'm not auto-elec (motor mechanic actually), but I reckon there'd have to be some way to play with the wiring of the cigarette lighter so that the car won't start unless its pushed in!

Copying the cruiser key and knocking it off would be easy to do.....at my toyo workshop where I work, NOT THAT i HAVE EVER OR WOULD EVER DO A LOW THING AS KNOCK OFF A CAR, but if a 100series customer drops their car off and leaves it all day to be picked up in the arvo, then everythings in the car thiefs favour - you pinch a spare key from the parts area of the workshop, program it while it's in your bay, you have the owners address and details infront of you via service book or job-card, and you just rock up at night and CLICK, CLICK, VROOM and your off! Or like someone else said earlier, cut a spare key off your cruiser to match another cruisers lock, take your ecu, open the door, rip the glove box out, replace the ecu and leave it hangin there and shove the modifed key in and off you go.

Yeah it's a bummer but it happens - the kill switch thing would be my option. I gotta put a couple in my 2003 hilux, they got no immobiliser and I can get into it without a key in under 5 seconds. Havnt been game enough to screw with me wiring to try and hot wire it.

If you wanna stop tilt truck draggin your car onto their tray, drill a hole through your floor, screw in a large self tapper into the bitumen as an anchorand then tighten a nut over a flat bit of metal on the inside of your car. wont go anyway unless they wanna take half the road with them. ha aha ha aha ha

TUFF IFS LUX
AnswerID: 161710

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 05:19

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 05:19
Tuff,

Thanks. You work in Toyota workshop and now perhaps people will understand how easy it is.

The trouble with most of us we think that other people think like us - law abiding. We believe advertsing and hype - "this car can't be stolen, "this house can't be burglarised", "this ATM in the wall is too heavy to pull out", "nobody can past these concreted posts that I've put in front my shop", "nobody can get into my building" - all hawschit!!

Think like a criminal guys. It can be done if ya think about it - and they do think about it. All the time.

Bilbo
0
FollowupID: 416493

Reply By: Bilbo - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 05:39

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 05:39
There's been soem good stuff on this thread. Stuff that maight save soemone's car. Thanks to all.

I've given up looking for my Stolen Landcruiser. The police can do it (joke there) or the insurance company can do it. I'm retired, so I've got the time to drive around looking at dodgy workshops and watching traffic. But I scared the bowels out of meself twice on Saturday when I nearly ran my son'' car up the back of another car - too busy looking at passing Landcruisers!!

My efforts will now be concentrated on the Chevy Nissan Project.

But in closing, 3 good examples of how brazen thieves are.

The tilt-tray truck driver that dropped off the Nissan body today, told me how he lost his Mitsubishi Pajero. The Paj was locked inside his shed, which in turn was locked inside his secure yard. They just attached a 4WD to the gate and burst it open, tied a 4WD to his shed doors and burst them, broke into the Paj, stole that and his V8 Torana parts and all his tools.

The same guy told me he was called out to recover a vehicle that had been abandoned in the bush. Where was it stolen from?? You'll never guess,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The Secure Compound of the Maylands Police Station in Perth!!

The third example. A guy is washing his caravan on the lawn outside his home. The landline phone rings in his house. His wife answers. She calls him in to speak on the phone. The guy on the phone is going on about the caravan owners credit cards. He keeps him talking for 10 minutes. Goes back outside to finish washing the van,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, no caravan, GONE!!

And a fourth before I say good bye.

This happened in Rockingam, near Perth. It's near where I live. A guy was arrested after ram raiding the Secure Compound at Rockingham Police Station. He only made one error - it was mid-afternoon and the police were still in the police station!! Fer crying loud, Mary!! They got him and he was charged etc.

Take care,

Bilbo

Nobody heard a thing. It was in an indsutrial estate.
AnswerID: 161820

Reply By: AndrewW - Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 13:48

Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 at 13:48
Well here is a different slant to things.

I have a 2002 Hilux. No security stuff standard, so I fitted an alarm and immobiliser awhile back.

On a trip from Melb to Fraser Island, was in Port Macquarie, it rained heaps, and when we went to go somewhere in the car, nothing, it wouldn't unarm or unlock, and if you opened the door with the keys, the alarm went off. After a days worth of stuffing around, I finally got it all going again with a PIN code. I also found that it was installed in the little kick panel, next to the accelerator pedal, and had gotten wet from the rain and my shoes. The bad bit, it was installed professionally, by a reputable place, which I paid lots for. The warranty states no warranty if it gets wet.

Anyway, I went to a car audio/alarm place in Port Macquarie and for free he showed me how to disable the immobilisers and alarm, and for the rest of the holiday I went back to using the key in the lock. 2 minute job, no cutting of wires or anything, very easy. The alarm was unarmed at the time we did it, and apparently it would be different if you were trying to do it when it was armed.

So, my slant, I don't have any faith in the electronic stuff at all. Its like copy protection on DVDs etc, it will be cracked, no matter what they do, it will be beaten. I like the idea of a relatively concealed cutout for the fuel lines, but its obviously not something vehicle companies will install. Having been on the other side of the fence, having a stupid alarm potentially ruin my holiday, I wouldn't bother with one again.

Funnily enough, once we got home, and the alarm had dried out, I re-connected it, and it all worked perfectly again. Almost a year later, and its still working perfectly. Definately an expensive hunk of junk. If if does play up again, it will be removed. I also carry around the bits and pieces needed to override the immobilisers in the event of future problems on the road.

The fitter was hopeless, made appointments for them to fit it properly after I got home, and they failed to show up at any of those appointments. I wrote them off as a bad joke after that.

Andrew
AnswerID: 161919

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)