Jackaroo Rough Idle and Stall

Submitted: Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 12:39
ThreadID: 32028 Views:7858 Replies:8 FollowUps:5
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Hi All

I have a 99 TD SE Jackaroo (bought it 2nd hand in 2002). Hasn't given me any trouble until about a month ago, when it started idling rough after starting. Was due it's 110k service, so thought maybe after having that it would be OK. Mentioned it to the dealer, and he performed service and "reset the idle". Was just as bad as ever when I went to start next morning. Now it is also stalling after driving down the road about 1km (from 1st start). I took it back to the dealer, where it spent two days, and they gave it back saying they couldn't fault it. Was OK for about 2 days, then it started again! Yesterday my wife almost crashed as it stalled going around a round about (with our 2yr old in the car). After rining me she took it straight back to the dealer and gave them an earful (hell hath no fury.....). Dealer currently has car, and am waiting to hear back.

Anyone have a similar experience? Any ideas?
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Reply By: scoof - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 13:26

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 13:26
Sorry don't know how to fix your problem, a friend of mine had the same problem with his TD Jackaroo had it back to the dealers numerous times , the local dearler put it down to a computer problem .They couldn't fix it , or didn't know how ?
He since sold the 4wd.
Best of luck.

Scoof.
AnswerID: 162208

Reply By: Rigor - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 13:59

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 13:59
Could be a dozen things , unfortunately the engine management on these things is a bit complex but understandable with the right reference material.
Is your dealer a Holden dealer with the correct diagnostic equipment? This is a double edged sword as most Holden dealers don't want to know about Jackaroos but have the equipment to fault find. Personally I hate the baskets.
The statement about "reset" the idle sounds sus as the idle speed is set in the ECU and can't be changed! A couple of things to suspect would be
1. connector in wiring loom from the injectors (near oil filler) this gets filled with oil that travels down from the injector harness, clean with a contact cleaner and re-connect.
2. the Oil Rail Pressure sensor (under cam cover )
The first thing would be to check for any error codes set , the dealer should have done this . Might be worthwhile asking them. If you wish to try yourself you can access the DLC (drivers side of the centre console ) and bridge terminals 4 and 6
then turn the ignition on and count the "check engine" light flashing . This is a 2 digit code eg 2 flashes pause 3 flashes = 23 which = intake air temp. get the idea.
These range from 11 to 77 . If you do this post here and I will supply the codes.

Cheers Dave L.
AnswerID: 162213

Follow Up By: Baldivis Boy - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 14:42

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 14:42
Thanks Dave - appreciate that, though I will have to wait until I get the vehicle back to check error codes.

The exact wording on the invoice is "Carried out throttle body. Reset base idle". Sounds a bit vague to me - though it cost me an extra $89.

I am a bit sus of the dealer - a very prominent Holden Dealer in Perth. They discovered a leak from the sump seal, and told me they would have to remove the entire engine to fix it! Since have spoken to a number of other service agents, and all have confirmed that this is not the case - front suspension and bash plates can be removed to replace the seal (a diff of about $500 in labour). I guess I have persisted as they charged me for "fixing" the problem, and so want to get my money's worth(?)
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FollowupID: 416905

Reply By: Darian (SA) - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 14:25

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 14:25
Had my version of the same model since new and has not missed a beat in 6 years, but I'm not looking forward to that first missed beat - they are exceedingly complex in their operation (most makes are now - many even more so) - its a fact (as Scoof attests) that the majority of dealers wouldn't have a clue how to fix such things - if they don't have a major problem staring them in the face, they resort to story telling and replacing modules at out cost, until it goes away. What to do ? Damned if I know..............its a gamble...........
AnswerID: 162216

Reply By: Steve63 - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 14:55

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 14:55
Hi Baldivis Boy,
I have had the same model Jackeroo for some time (165,000km). I have just traded it for a Cruiser. Not because it was not a good vehicle but because we were begining to find it's 4wd limits (probably went right past them a few times!). Ours has been around, Kimberley, Cape York and large areas of the SA deserts.

We had a similar problem at about 140,000 (and a similar problem a few other times) along with intermittent lack of power. There are a few things that it could be or are contributing factors.

1) The plugs are meant to be replaced at 100,000. Lots of mechanics leave them till they die. They are reasonably expensive ~$20 each. I have found that replacing them at about 80,000 was a good idea. If you have the originals at 110,000 I would definitely get them replaced.
2) The fuel filters are the same as on a commodore so if you have been anywhere with dirty fuel change the filter. It is on the drivers side, just forward of the rear wheel on the side of the chassie. Be ready if you do this yourself as the fuel pours out when it is disconnected.
3) Injectors may need a proper clean. This is not a Wynns pour in solution. You need to get them cleaned properly by a mechanic.
4) We also had this problem when the oxygen sensor was stuffed. It ran very lean and would stutter and cut out if you tried to accelerate. Eventually the check engine tell tale will come on.
5) You may find that there is something in the tank and that the fuel pump is picking it up then dropping it as the engine stutters. If you fill the tank and the problem goes away it would be worth while getting the tank flushed. If you only ever partially fill your tank it may be varnished. Apparently this can be cleaned by filling the tank with Hi Octane fuel ie Ultra etc. I never tried this but it is meant to work because the Ultra fuel has less impurities.
6) You may find that the injector filter is falling apart. They are meant to be replaced every 40,000km (not quite often enough really)

You may find you need to do a few of these to resolve the issue.

Most engine problems are recorded on the engine management computer but your mechanic has to have a reader to read it. The plug is behind the consol trim on the drivers side. Slide your fingers up behind the plastic and you will find it. This is not always easy. It took me 20 minutes to find it the first time. It is a rectangular plug about 3x1 cm. If it is really dusty chances are no one has ever used it.

While I have found the vast majority of mechanics to be pretty upright and honest I have been to one or two establishments that had a very good reputation but were real crooks. For example, with a previous vehicle, I returned to my original mechanic after 3 years (he had moved too far away) and when I picked up the car he was a bit hot under the collar as the oil filter and air filter had his initials and the km written on them from the last time he had serviced it. I had been billed for these items at every service between times.

Jackaroos are normally reliable vehicles. Most of the issues we had were because we really used it off road.

If I was you and you have a mechanic you trust and who knows a bit about 4wd's get them to have a look. If for no other reason than to get a second opinion

Steve
AnswerID: 162224

Follow Up By: Rigor - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 15:40

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 15:40
Hi Steve the Jackaroo in question is a Diesel but the DLC is the same in both vehicles and the method of retrieving the codes is the same.
cheers Dave L.
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FollowupID: 416925

Follow Up By: Steve63 - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 15:50

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 15:50
Didn't notice the TD oops. Agree that the management sytem is the key. I also notice Baldivis Boy is a bit sus of the dealer. Should go somewhere where they use the technology not fight it ther whole way. The dealer should have the Holdern CD that gives them the list of things to check (plus how to do it).
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FollowupID: 416930

Reply By: flappa - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 15:56

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 15:56
The O Rings for the Injectors are known to cause problems.

Borrowed from another forum

Quote:

I reminded them that the symtoms were rough idle and surging at low revs and not high rpm problems.

spoke to my regular 4wd mechanic who had just employed an ex holden mechanic.
He agreed to look at the injectors for me knowing how trick they are to remove.
When the injectors were out it was clear that the o-rings had been leaking high pressure oil into the cylinders . when they were replaced and the tappits re-shimmed the engine problems were gone . Goes to show , you cant assume that the factory trained techs are better than your regular mechanic. with the right info.

END QUOTE
AnswerID: 162242

Follow Up By: Baldivis Boy - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 17:15

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 17:15
Thanks flappa

I "know" (ie. has been taken to 2 diff Holden dealers) that the injectors and o-rings have been replaced as part of the general recall on this TD model....but ya neva know, maybe they have failed again, or were'nt done right?

The current dealer looking at the vehicle did the last replacement......makes you wonder doesn't it?
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FollowupID: 416954

Reply By: Baldivis Boy - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 17:46

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 17:46
Just spoke to the dealer - and guess what, aparently the vehicle needs a "rework" of the injector sleaves and o-rings. This will be the 3rd time it has been done that I know of.

Should get the car back tommorrow. Will see how it goes....(or doesn't)
AnswerID: 162271

Reply By: Patroleum - Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 20:53

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006 at 20:53
Baldives Boy.

I worked with a holden tech for a while. He says originally just the o rings were replaced and then the job was to replace the sleeves as well. The sleeve job is only 18 months to 2 yrs old. Unsure as to whether this fix will be permanant though. Good luck, i hope that you don't need injectors replaced, they used to be $2500 each. There is a guy that was on this forum that had to have the lot done (No warranty) and the bill came to $11000.00.

Greg
AnswerID: 162332

Follow Up By: Baldivis Boy - Monday, Mar 27, 2006 at 11:07

Monday, Mar 27, 2006 at 11:07
Had the injectors and sleeves replaced April last year as part of Holden's recall 03-11-03. Ran OK, but started blowing alot of black smoke when changing gears.

According to the Holden dealer, the wrong parts were used, and has now replaced with the correct ones? Funny - same dealer did the recall.

Had the injectors replaced at 80k (30k ago), so they should(?) be ok....
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FollowupID: 417858

Reply By: Baldivis Boy - Monday, Mar 27, 2006 at 11:10

Monday, Mar 27, 2006 at 11:10
Got the car back Thursday. Ran fine, then Friday night, took six goes to start. Pressed on throttle, nothing, kept stalling. Finally fired up and ran fine....

Saturday, no problems.

Sunday morning, almost ran the battery flat trying to start. Ended up using the compressor to pressurise the fuel tank to get it to start (an old trick my father in law, also a TD Jack owner has used a few times).

This morning, started fine.

?!?!?!??! Completely confused. If it was the seals and sleaves, surely the problem would be fairly consistent?
AnswerID: 163113

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