Glind Shower Systems

Submitted: Monday, Apr 03, 2006 at 21:47
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Hi

I am looking at installing a Glind style shower system in a GU Patrol. Not having had one before, I was wondering:

- if you have been running the vehicle all day, can you get away with not running the engine to heat (a chap using a Twine system at a show suggested this was possible).

- do you have any flexibility for placement of inlet and outlet? eg Can you use without lifting bonnet, and having connection points at say rear of vehicle?

Seems to be a well used system - so if anyone has successfully done something "clever" with installation, I would be keen to hear. Any other thoughts also welcome.

Thanks

Alan
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Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Monday, Apr 03, 2006 at 22:04

Monday, Apr 03, 2006 at 22:04
Alan,

I talked to a bloke in my travels who had one setup to a water tank under the vehicle. The glind would heat this water all the time with a temp sensor cutting off the power when the water got to 40c. This way he could use another pump to run his shower from the water tank and know he would not be scalded without the car running at all. No doubt if you left it too long after you turn the car off the water would be cold again so this would have to be taken into account.
No doubt other good ideas will come from the many varied people on here which may work out to be simpler than this.

Cheers Trevor.
AnswerID: 164640

Follow Up By: Polaris - Monday, Apr 03, 2006 at 22:29

Monday, Apr 03, 2006 at 22:29
Have done much the same with one 80L tank on our motorhome. I have aranged the plumbing in such a way that I can recirculate back to the same tank - via a Glind heat exchanger. I havent gone to the trouble of fitting a thermostat control on the pump, but have fitted a mechanical temperature gauge (0C-120C) and it only takes a few minutes circulation to raise the temp of the whole 80L to 40C, a nice shower temperature. Once the tank is up to temp - then the motor can be shut down. Quite amazing how long 80L stays at 40C.
We have also got a Glind fitted to our Toyota Surf and use it the way it is marketed. We have a 60L tank under the 4x4 and can either draw water from that tank or a creek or a bucket. The Flowjet pump will lift about 3 metres.
For any newbies to Glind or any heat exchanger use - be aware that the first burst of water will be scalding HOT! This can happen when one person finishes, and turns off the shower. Then the next person comes along and turns it back on - but without any flow through the unit - then the small amount of water in the exchanger will be much the same temperature as the coolant passing through it! VERY HOT!

Very happy with both of our Glinds!
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Reply By: geocacher (djcache) - Monday, Apr 03, 2006 at 22:14

Monday, Apr 03, 2006 at 22:14
Hi Alan,

I'm not sure where the Twine guy was coming from. The system relies on water from the cooling system flowing through the jacket of the heat exchanger to heat the water the DC pump is pushing through the coil that runs inside the jacket.

If you run it without the engine running the water pump (vehicle one) isn't pushing coolant around. The cold water from the bucket/river cools the water sitting in the jacket and shortly after you have a cold shower.

You've given me another good reason for Davis Craig managed electric pump cooling systems - then you could circulate the coolant through the warm block without the engine running but that's a pretty expensive way to get a quiet warm shower.

As for the other question I run my inlet and outlet hoses out to the front corner of the vehicle on quick connect fittings (garden hose style). They just hang below the corner of the bull bar. When you want a shower you just plug in the inlet hose with the filter in it and the shower hose and turn the pump on. I've wired the pump control to a switch on the bull bar above my air compressor outlet so it's easy to access and the shower hangs off the awning support that mounts on my bull bar. It can be used with or without the shower tent.

I'll try and find a pic.

Dave
AnswerID: 164643

Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Monday, Apr 03, 2006 at 22:22

Monday, Apr 03, 2006 at 22:22
We didn't need the shower tent at Brachina- the only mammals interested in watching SWMBO shower were the roo & me :o)

Dave
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 10:55

Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 10:55
Dave,
I think what John Twine was probably trying to say was that the coolant still circulates (albeit slowly) due to the "hot air rises" type of effect. means that because the heat exchanger tends to sit fairly high in the engine bay, the coolant in that heat exchanger is likely to be replaced by warmer coolant from the engine, as it cools down from the effect of the clear water passing through it.

However, in my experience (I have a Twine), we usually run the motor whilst the first person has their shower, then find the water is getting too hot, so I turn-down the heater control on the dash-board and this helps make the shower water to be not quite so hot. However, if several people are showering (one after the other; not altogether!!!!) I end up having to turn the motor off for 5 minutes or so, during which time the shower water is still coming out at a very nice temperature.

Cheers,

Roachie
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Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 14:31

Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 14:31
Hi Roachie,

I didn't think the original owner still had Twine. I met a couple who ran a tagalong company on the Canning last year who said they'd bought Twine Showers. "Liked the product so much they bought the company..."

Without installing a flow meter I would have thought that such flow was minimal once the water pump stopped, and the heat exchanger relies on a reasonable volume of flow to function. I could be wrong though. Wouldn't getting such flow rely on a subtantial temperature difference between the water in the bottom of the radiator and the top? Without air flow through the radiator I can't see how that great a gradient would occur.

I'm surprised your shower gets too hot, mine used to but I find with a flow control valve in the coolant line of the heat exchanger (which was needed as the heater control on the dash of my vehicle, Prados and a few others controls air flow through the heater core rather than water flow,) and adjusting rev range on the hand throttle I can get a good temp which remains almost constant if just left running.

Does your vehicles heater control on the dash control a tap in the coolant line in the engine bay or a flap directing air in the vent system. If it's the latter you will find huge improvements by adding an inline tap under the bonnet.

Dave
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 14:58

Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 14:58
Dave,

Quote: "Does your vehicles heater control on the dash control a tap in the coolant line in the engine bay or a flap directing air in the vent system".......

Yes mate, the heater control adjusts the flow of coolant through the core, so it is easy to adjust using the slider on the dashboard (although a bit difficult from the confines of the shower tent!!!..........hence I stay nearby when Annette is having a scrub-up, as i often get a call along the lines of....."Bill, the water is too bloody hot!!!!!).

You're right about the coolant circulation with motor turned off......it certainly doesn't continue to heat the shower water for very long after the motor is switched off; but it is still quite warm for several minutes. And given that we (family of 5) are able to shower with 10 or so litres of water, it is not really an issue for us.

BTW, I pour the 10 litres of water into a square Woolies packing crate and we just leave the water circulating back into that when we are lathering-up etc. We tend not to use the shut-off valve on the shower head, as this is what causes the water to be scalding hot when the flow is re-started. In really cold weather, where the ambient water temp is very low, I start the motor and circulate the water for as long as necessary to get the base temp in the crate up to a point where I can switch the motor off and just pump the water through. Either way, they are a great invention.

Cheers

Roachie
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FollowupID: 420134

Reply By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Monday, Apr 03, 2006 at 22:26

Monday, Apr 03, 2006 at 22:26
Hi Alan,
I installed a Twine shower because the Glind heat exchanger was made of plastic and if it fails while driving your coolant is gone from the engine cooling system. The twine is copper and silver soldered and much much stronger.
If you have tohe outlet at the back the water will cool a bit before you get wet and usually the "kitchen" is at the back of the car and you may get wet feet doing the cooking (or just getting a beer). I put mine at the front with the on/off switch behind the upright of the bull bar to protect it from damage and used one with a built in "on light" so you can find it in the dark.
If you use these things just as they come out of the pack there is a risk of scalding when the water in the heat exchanger comes out the rose. Each time you stop the flow to soap up etc there is a fresh charge of water in the H/E and another chance of a scalding.
Here is my answer. Put a "Y" fitting in the output from the shower pump and a "T" fitting in the line to the rose so that you can bypass the H/E
Put the pickup suction pipe in your 20 ltr container which is full of cold water and the hand shower rose also feeding back in the container and run the car engine and the shower pump, with the valves on the "Y" fitting sending the water throgh the H/E, until the water is warm enough which with mine is about 7 - 8 minutes. Then turn the "Y" fitting valves so that the water bypasses the H/E and goes directly to the rose. This way you CAN NOT get scalded as the water does not enter the H/E while you are showering. A simple trick to avoid a problem. If you need or want pix of my installation just email me at "eye el hock@bigpond.net.au
AnswerID: 164645

Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 22:52

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 22:52
Vibration is probably more likely to fatigue the copper jacket than the plastic one.

Steel/metal is no longer necessarily stronger or more durable than many plastics. Those days are long gone.

One of the suppliers on the market of a plastic jacketed units is so confident that theirs carries a lifetime warranty.

Dave
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Monday, Apr 03, 2006 at 22:45

Monday, Apr 03, 2006 at 22:45
Hi Alan, Dont expect miracles as far as output temp goes, especially on a diesel. They are mostly agricultural, a simple coil. Also dependant on incoming water temp. You generally only get about 20 to 25 deg above input fresh water temperature. So if you put in 20deg water, you get about 40deg C . Petrol engined vehicles do better as they operate 10 degs hotter than diesel engines. Michael
Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

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AnswerID: 164646

Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 22:53

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 22:53
I've installed them on my Courier and a Navara, I know of 3 on Prados of 2 models.

All of the above are diesels and there's no issue with temp.

I have an inline flow control in mine as in some cases the water is too hot.

Dave
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Reply By: Member - Troll 81 (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 05:25

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 05:25
Hi Alan

I have Twine system and you control the temp by using the temp control in the car and you need the engine to run for the coolant to pump through works well for us

here is the link to their setup page Site Link
AnswerID: 164655

Reply By: Gu_Patrol - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 06:48

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 06:48
Ever thought of buying a Coleman demand hot water system?
Cheap, Easy, Quick
AnswerID: 164659

Follow Up By: Member - Alan (WA) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 09:16

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 09:16
To be honest, I am having a hard time on this one....never having had either - and with pple being happy with both. I thought I was heading to Glind. Your post made me realise that I am not quite sure yet..... :)

Glind For
Out of the way with no additional bulk
No consumables
Better shower? (not as sure on this comment?)

Coleman For
Quiet
Quick
More usable for other hot water needs (cuppa, washing up)

Am I on the right track?

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FollowupID: 419589

Reply By: madcow - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 07:22

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 07:22
there are a few ideas here

Site Link

My installation is there for both a 2000 4.2 and 03 4.2 tdi

I do like the Twine unit due to the construction of the heat exchanger. But they all do a good job at the end of the day. I believe ownership of the Twine shower has recently changed hands as well due to it's popularity!

cheers Dave
AnswerID: 164662

Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 09:49

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 09:49
Hi again Alan, My installation is also on there with Daves. You can install the Heat Exchange on the bash plate if you have a bull bar and simply just clip the hoses onto the heat exchange, no other hoses running around the engine bay other than the heater hoses. I just have a modified $20 Turbo shower you can buy anywhere, it saves adding more clutter to the engine bay and uses 3.5 litres of water a minute.. Just a thought!! Michael
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Reply By: brian - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 07:37

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 07:37
there is space in front of the radiator to fit the pump in the patrol and the heat exchanger fits lengthways on drivers side on top of fuses
AnswerID: 164663

Reply By: Tim_N - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:35

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:35
The Glind heat exchanger is not plastic but Ny-glass which is the same material used to make the top and bottom radiator tanks in most modern vehicles. I don't think plastic would last 2 minutes under a bonnet.
As to getting a shower without the engine running is not right, you must have coolant flow to heat and if you don't have the engine running, the water will go cold quickly.
If you want fittings on the bullbar or somewhere external, try screw on type fittings as opposed to garden snap types. The snap on's tend to leak air and make the pump splutter and reduces its ability to draw water.
Also take a look on the Glind web site and you can see a lot of things even a comparo between vehicle mounted systems. www.glind.com.au
I have tries a gas system and it only takes up more space and while it worked ok, even the smallest Glind will pump twice as much water and do it from much further away.
AnswerID: 164734

Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 14:18

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 14:18
Tim, its 33% glass filled Nylon, Yes its tough but its nothing special, its used in lots of engineering products and it is plastic. Michael
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Reply By: Gu_Patrol - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 06:52

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 06:52
Another good thig about the Coleman is your motor doesn't have to be running, also you can carry the Coleman anywhere, next to the water supply, in your mates better looking shower tent, into the srcub, a long as you carry your water aswell.
The battery inside the coleman should last you nearly an hour with continuous use I think, and it has it's own 12v cig light charger.
I've never had the twine or glind style before and I can't comment on how good them showers are, if they came with that chick in their advertising pic I'll be the first one to buy it. :-)
AnswerID: 164911

Follow Up By: Member - Alan (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 10:25

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 10:25
Went to ARB yesterday - they reckon that they are going to have a real hard time getting a Glind installed on my car anyway (GU Patrol 3l TD - standard under bonnet other than ARB dual battery and ABS). Even if they could, the cost of the actual install was going to make me think again.

So I had another look at the Coleman and am swinging back to this now. But will leave until rear drawers are installed in about a month and fridges are sitting on - so I make sure I have somewhere handy to carry it. In back of car would seem good - quick access for a cuppa on the road etc....

Thanks

Alan
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FollowupID: 419840

Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 10:48

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 10:48
Hi Alan,

I have a 4.8 Patrol with ABS and there is no room for either another battery or a hot water system. When I was looking (haven't done it yet) it was suggested to have the exchanger and pump behind the bull bar. Also I noticed a tour operator in Coen a few years back that had his pump on the front of the bullbar and he reckoned it had been there for years without any problems.

Just some more for you to think about.

Kind regards
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FollowupID: 419843

Reply By: Member - Alan (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 10:27

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 10:27
Thank you to everyone for the info. Armed with my newly acquired knoweledge and ideas, I went to ARB yesterday - they reckon that they are going to have a real hard time getting a Glind installed on my car anyway (GU Patrol 3l TD - standard under bonnet other than ARB dual battery and ABS). Even if they could, the cost of the actual install was going to make me think again.

So looks like I am back to square one at this stage - unless a Twine or similar are any different.

Looks like a Coleman may be the go now.

Anyway - thanks for all the responses.

Alan
AnswerID: 164952

Follow Up By: mattie - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 18:15

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 18:15
Hi Alan
i have a glind unit and it is great, have had it in a rodeo and now for a couple of yrs in the GU, when we pull up to camp the nite we heat up the water in a canoe tub(put the shower rose in the barrel and leave the car running until it is really hot once we are ready to shower we just add some cool water to correct the temp then just use the shower unit with out the car ruinning as u have pre heated the water). If the car is at running temp i think it would take 5mins to heat 20ltres to shower temp. If u shower with the engine running u have to let the water to continue to run , if u stop the water flow the water in the heat exchanger for only a second or so it will be as hot as the radiator water, so to preheat water u can stop and start the water flow as neaded and 20Ltr will shower a lot of people.

Mattie
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FollowupID: 419919

Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 21:51

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 21:51
Hi Alan, I posted earlier about fitting the HEU to the bashplate on the Patrol. Obviously I dont have a winch and cant fit one while the Heat exchange unit is in this position. It saves a heap of space and no pump to fit on the vehicle. Picture below.. Michael!MPG:5!
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 22:01

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 22:01
Alan, i just realised you had a 3L, check out Madcows (Dave) website, he has a great spot to fit the Heat Exchange, It mounts on the two bars that support the Intercoolerand it takes up no space at all. If you are still pushed for space, use can still use my idea and have a portable pump.. Michael
PS Link to Daves site is above in his Post.
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Reply By: Jimbo - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 19:10

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 19:10
Get a Coleman.

I base that statement on the observation that my mate Glenn has an under bonnet job and has now gone to the Coleman.
AnswerID: 165055

Reply By: geocacher (djcache) - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 23:04

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 23:04
They are not hard to fit yourself if you want to have a crack at it. Plenty of advice here from people who have done it.

Once fitted you don't have to carry extra stuff. The Coleman unit I saw at a camp in November had a lousy flow rate.

If you want to shower with the engine off do what we do with the kids. Preheat your water by running the shower head back into a bucket that you are drawing from. The water just cycles through getting warmer and warmer. (The engine is running obviously.)

Once warmed enough turn the motor off and use the pump & shower to pump the warmed water - it still goes via the HE but doesn't get much warmer as the coolant is no longer flowing. The shower water cools the coolant in the HE if anything.

Pretty much solves the hot burst you get initially too which is why we do it for the kids.

I've run the truck at a big group camp for 5 mins and then generated the washing up water 20 litres for the whole group in about that long, using the same method. It just gets hotter and hotter until you decide to stop.

No gas to run out of either.

Dave
AnswerID: 165122

Reply By: Tim_N - Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 08:54

Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 08:54
My father in law got a Glind fitted to a Nissan 3l GU and went to Glind and got a bracket for the vehicle. It took him about 1 and a half hours to do it and it is out of the way of everything. If I knew how to send a piccy I would.
AnswerID: 165176

Reply By: flappa - Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 09:29

Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 09:29
I have a heat exchanger fitted to my 4.5 Patrol . . . like the 4.8 . . THATS a challenge to fit.

I was having trouble getting the temp right on mine (being a Ti with climate control), so I added a Mixer style system with Taps. Works like your shower at home. No more friggin around with Heater slides to get your shower right . . . its all down in the shower , just like at home. Great for the Missus and Kids.

These vehicle showers are SUBSTANTIALLY better then the Coleman showers , mainly because of the pump. The Colemans do have a place in camping , and they may be more convenient for some people for showers , but , they aren't nearly as good as the vehicle systems.
AnswerID: 165186

Reply By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 11:23

Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 11:23
Hi Alan
We use a heat exchanger system, and 20 L of cold water with a cold deisel engine takes about 10-12 minutes to heat to shower temp. we just circulate it from bucket through exchanger and back to bucket until it reaches right temp and then swith car off so it doesnt get any hotter, and 20L easy enough for 2 showers and leftovers to do dishes, also battery gets a bit of a top up while engine running.
If i went to coleman i would still use pump and shower system, just heat water with coleman heater, but wont be doing it for the moment, very happy with current setup.

Cheers Pesty
AnswerID: 165219

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