LOKKA vs ARB air lockers

Submitted: Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:05
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Anyone has experience with both? LOKKA seems to be simple and cheaper, but is it really works? ARB definately works, but required compressed air and more expensive. Any Comments greatly appresiated.
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Reply By: the real chopper - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:28

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:28
Lokkas (well Lock rights are what I have) definaltley do work. And I have not yet driven into a tree as many would suggest will happen with autolockers.

Guess it comes down to how badly (read how many $$$ you want to throw at) you want the "psssst" noise and the sticker on the back window.

(unless you have a fulltime 4by in which case a front auto locker is a really, really bad idea)
AnswerID: 164730

Follow Up By: KSV - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:33

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:33
>>>Guess it comes down to how badly (read how many $$$ you want to throw at) >>>you want the "psssst" noise and the sticker on the back window.

Does not work for me :-). If I deside to go for ARB, I would install them by myself and there would be no sticker :-). My main paranoya about LOKKER that they automatic, i.e. uncontrollable. While ARB is fully controllable. This is my main hesitation.
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Follow Up By: rolande- Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:38

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:38
"While ARB is fully controllable. This is my main hesitation."

Not exactly true either. Air lockers will only unlock when wheels pointed straight ahead. Go round a corner and try to unlock them, no go.

Rolande
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Follow Up By: Scoey (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:41

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:41
Hey Chopper,
I have a full time 80 Series fourby. I had considered the LOKKA's when I eventually lock her up. Why is it bad to put one in the front?

Cheers
Scoey.
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Follow Up By: the real chopper - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:47

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:47
with a full time 4wd you can't disconnect the front diff from the driveline, hence the lokka will be always locked, you will not be able to steer and you will crash your truck.
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Follow Up By: KSV - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:51

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:51
Oh, well. I actually never thought that they meant to be lock or unlock when cornering on freeway at 100 km/hr (just kidding :-)). Lets me rephrase it. I have feeling (probably it totally wrong), that LOKKA **MAY** hesitate to lock when I need it. Or lock a bit too late, when damage already done. Also it **MAY** stay lock, when I do not expect them to lock. With manual control everything much simpler – if I need I can (un)lock them in advance and at any time I do know (and can react appropriately) if they locked or unlocked. But probably all this is just my imagination and LOKKA **WILL** lock and unlock exactly when I expect it to do.
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Follow Up By: Member - Tony G (ACT) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:53

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 13:53
Rolande, why would you want to unlock a diff lock while you are going around a corner? You either unlock before hand, if you dont need it, or wait till you straighten up. The nockers of manual diff locks either havent got one or dont know how to use them.
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Follow Up By: Scoey (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 15:04

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 15:04
Hi Chopper,
Thanks for the tip! ;-) Sounds like good advice!
Cheers
Scoey!
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Follow Up By: bombsquad - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 15:15

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 15:15
Been thinking about one of these (Locka) myself. My understanding is that they won't be slow to lock when you really need them, as they are always locked and the outside wheel while cornering on hard stuff unlocks to go around the corner, then locks again when going strait. Aparently you can feel it a little, and it can be a little slow to unlock, thats why its not good for full timers, they can handle a bit funny on the blacktop.

Detroit like to call their automatic units 'unlockers' to point this trait out.

Cheers Andrew
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Follow Up By: the real chopper - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 15:27

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 15:27
what bombsquad said!
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Follow Up By: bombsquad - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 15:39

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 15:39
Gday Chopper

Can you give me any insight on the effects on engine braking with the locka. The info on the website says it works when engine braking, but if it allows the outside wheel to disengage around a corner, how does it not disengage and freewheel down hill? Also, did you fit it yourself, and was it very hard to do?

Cheers Andrew

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Follow Up By: the real chopper - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 15:46

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 15:46
okay

a most basic explanation is that it 'unlocks' the wheel with least traction ie the outside wheel round a corner or the lifted wheel in a downhill engine breaking scenario.

(all of this assumes that you are not applying torque to the diff, through the tailshaft at the time)
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Follow Up By: revhead307 - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 16:26

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 16:26
This info on 'Lokka' is from 4wd systems website:

"Simple explanation of LOKKA's operation

The LOKKA mechanism allows a wheel to turn faster than the speed the diff is driving it - (differential action), but never allows a wheel to turn slower than the speed the diff and engine is turning it - (traction). Thus a wheel cannot ever stop turning if the engine is driving it, but in a corner it can be forced to actually turn faster. Unlike a normal diff the engine can never drive one wheel faster than the other."

This negates what has just been said above about engine breaking. The lokka should not disengage while under engine braking and up in the air, it should always travel at the speed of the diff, (or faster round corners)

In a corner the outside wheel has a greater distance to travel (hence the outside wheel spins faster). in a straight line a Lokka should always have the diff 'locked'.

Engine braking should not affect the operation of the LOKKA.

Rev
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Follow Up By: the real chopper - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 17:24

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 17:24
That doesn't actually negate what I have said revhead

the wheel on the ground in an uneven downhill will have max traction and engine breaking, the wheel off the ground will be 'unlocked' in that it will be allowed to travel faster than the wheel that is on the ground, this travelling faster is theoretical only as there will be either no drive to it, or if there is drive (and there for no longer engine breaking) the torque from the tailshaft will see that the diff is again locked and that both wheel travel at exactley the same speed.

In short, autolockers help with the descent of a hill that would have wheels off the ground by never letting the wheel that is in contact with the ground 'run away' as can with an open diff.
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Follow Up By: revhead307 - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 17:49

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 17:49
Hi Chopper

I've thought about it a bit..and can sort of see what your saying..

On a downhill slope...the wheel on the ground is the equivalent to the outside wheel on a corner...as it may be under pressure to spin faster than the one in the air. If it unlocks in this situation, then its basically the same as an open diff.

Rev

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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 20:32

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 20:32
Scoey ol mate
in full time 4x4 cars you must a Detroit Truetrac in the front

Truetracs employ special helical gears to transfer torque instead of clutch packs. They have the same on road action as a standard diff, control wheelspin, and are ideal for the front diffs of Constant 4WD vehicles.Check the link
www.locked-drive.com.au/truetrac.htm


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Follow Up By: Redback - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 14:27

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 14:27
the real chopper replied to the question

(unless you have a fulltime 4by in which case a front auto locker is a really, really bad idea)

This is not true, in fact LandRover recommend you put a Detriot TRU TRAC in the front of Disco 2 which is full time 4WD AND has traction control.

It's not a bad thing putting the Lokka type Locker in the front of a fulltime 4WD, as explained above.

It's much easier on the CVs

Baz.
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Reply By: revhead307 - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 14:03

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 14:03
ARB make a good (albiet costly) product and is excellent for what it does, but plenty of people use LOKKAs with much success. When I eventually get that far ill be sticking a LOKKA in the front.

If anything, its potentially more reliable as it has less components...no air hoses to puncture, no compressors to fail, or your cars electics that will cause the compressor to fail.

If its installed correctly, It should function perfectly without need to ever touch it. Lets face it, you will sell the vehicle before you will wear it out.

If you abuse it, you will break it 4x4's break axles, blow diffs etc etc IF they are not used responsibly.

Nothing is fool proof, as someone always invents a bigger fool.

Rev

AnswerID: 164738

Follow Up By: KSV - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 14:25

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 14:25
"ARB make a good (albiet costly) "
If something **REALLY** well overpriced in their range, then it should be spare wheel carriers. What really attract me in their solution is fact that if they not engage then vehicle will behave as it has no lockers at all, and this is very nice things. Actually I believe that they priced right for what they do. Question is can I justify such an expense.

“ill be sticking a LOKKA in the front.”
And what about back?
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Follow Up By: V8troopie - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 14:26

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 14:26
Exactly my way of thinking Rev.

I have LOKKA's at the front and ARB airlockers at the back.
With manual locking hubs the LOKKA's only do what they're supposed to do when I engage 4WD.

The LOKKA's are no problem at all on the blacktop, even when I engage just the hubs occasionally to give the diff oil a stirring up.

Klaus
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Follow Up By: revhead307 - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 15:21

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 15:21
On the back of my GQ the LSD does its job admirably. No LSD is as good as a lokker, but it works well enough for me not to worry about a rear one.

Rev
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 19:58

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 19:58
Lokka is a cheap version of the Lokrite original. Don't be fooled into thinking they are equal quality.
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 14:24

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 14:24
Controlling your lockers yourself is always an advantage..
You pay for this.

Pay for what you get.
AnswerID: 164744

Reply By: Member - Doug T (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 14:28

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 14:28
I would suggest you all go and have a look the post I put up about a month ago Post 31157 . you might learn some very helpful information if you have intensions of fitting Auto Lockers to the rear of Toyota's, you will see my solutions which is still holding today so far.and you will see some over the top suggestions and remedies that made me wonder whether these guys worked for the government ????
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Follow Up By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 16:51

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 16:51
Tried to find it through the previous page index at the bottom.

Can only go back 28 pages to post 31391 - 4/3.

Gees this forum can gas bag!
It's all good reading too :-)

Do a search on Lokka?
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 16:59

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 16:59
Oldplodder
No No No No Nooooo your doin it wrong mate when you have read this click the back to index button, then right up the top to the left you will see a little space where you can put the post number your looking for which will be 31157 and click the little tiny weeeny goe'sy button ...lol
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 17:13

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 17:13
Why don't you blokes just go the internet and you will find all the info you will ever need on Diff Locks and what,why,how,and when.all that except reallity experience and that only comes when your in the rough stuff, Check these URLs i found for you.
Site Link

Site Link

Site Link

www.locked-drive.com.au/product.htm
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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 23:46

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 23:46
Hi Doug,

Really like your first link, an article I wrote many years ago!!!

Cheers

Captain
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Follow Up By: KSV - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 08:58

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 08:58
To Doug:

Thanks for links - some I seen some and some are new to me. I do know everything about physics of this, but rfeally like to hear opinion from people who used BOTH.
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Reply By: Utemad - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 18:44

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 18:44
I don't know what's so bad about the cost. I paid $695 for my ARB locker :-)
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Reply By: cokeaddict - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 19:02

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 19:02
Had both, no competition at all.....air locker is way ahead in my opinion. Mind you, I can only refer to my expierences and uses. Everyone is different.

As for the expense of the Air Locker....well...i was hesitant at first but after my first real situation.....it worked wonders to get me out of trouble and saved me from some serious hard yakka...so if the rear diff in the GQ wasnt so good...id whack one in there too.
Ange
AnswerID: 164802

Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 20:23

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 20:23
cokeaddict
As for cost It cost me $1900 to have a Detroit fitted in to the rear in Brisbane and that included all New bearings and seals , Now i look back and wonder why i didn't put ARB in then I would not have had all the trouble with Sheered axle studs, My remedy seems to working so far much to denial of all the self proclaimed experts, What i do notice is that when I was ploughing through a few Ks of the dreaded Black soil recently I did not have the rear Diff lock give a big kick and i think the reason lies in the fact that while in 4wd the front wheels are pulling as well thus takes a big load off the rear , ....well that's my theory
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Follow Up By: KSV - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 08:59

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 08:59
To cokeaddict

Thanks for replay
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Reply By: F4Phantom - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 20:04

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 20:04
Hi mate, it seems locker threads always get the most attention. I have an option on the lokkas. I first got a rear lokka based on price as it is around 4 times cheaper. I also fitted it myself to save money. Ultimatly I would say the ARB lockers are better, but that does not change the fact that that I think there still some benefits of the lokka over the arb locker and these should not be passed up too quickly as for some people I think the lokka is superior. Here they are in order (it's how my mind thinks)

1, the lokka is alway on, so if your approaching a hard area, sometimes with the arb the driver makes a decision wether to use the arb as it is not always needed as it cant negotiate corners when on. So you may end up with a situation where your turning the damn thing on and off for corners + you have to be in a straight line as mentioned so you dont always have the complete freedom to have it on or off when you want. The lokka allows the faster wheel to go faster and disegages. I have gone down very steep inclines with one wheel off the ground, it seems to me the lokka should disengage at this point but it doesent.

2. The lokka is on-on the road. For the power I have this is irrelevant, but I have read a few forums where they choose auto lockers over arb so if they loose grip the thing is already on. In this situation there is no way of turning the arb on in 1 - 2 seconds at the most, the lokka is better. This also applies to off road when you may have judged a situation to be easy and it may be all to late to turn on the arb, the lokka may have already gotten you through with momentum.

3. Reliability, I know they say the arb is reliable and i dont doubt it is, but is it more reliable than a complely sealed unit with minimal moving parts. I have heard of airlines leaking or being punctured, I would say this is very rare but they are still there to be punctured.

As for the lokka unlocking at a bad time, it doesent, it is positive locking so the more pressure applied the harder it will lock. I drive on the freeway daily and when the lokka locks/unlocks it is undetectable.

Bad stuff with lokka, cant unlock. I have had it shudder 3 times since it's been in. Thats around 1 time per 6 months. It happens when the lokka re engages a little late and once around the corner snaps into position. I called the guys about this they said it's cool (what else will they say!!) An open diff drives the outside wheel while cornering, the lokka drives the inside wheel while cornering, if you have power you will easily spin the inside wheel in the wet as it's a small turning radius and lots of torque. It unlocks in corners even if you dont want it too.

AnswerID: 164825

Follow Up By: KSV - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 08:54

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 08:54
Thanks to find out time to write this - it is very informative.
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Reply By: Robin - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 15:09

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 15:09
Hi KSV

Had both lockrite and ARB in Patrols, and my overall choice would be lockers.
If however it was a choice between late model detroit lockers and ARB it would be a harder descision.

I believe the bottom line is that low cost lockers are very good value for money and
work well but not in the end as good as the more expensive units.

(referring below to front fitment first on part time 4wds)
There are a few cases where in practise Lokka outperforms ARB, typically dry hard stuff where turning is needed, but there are more cases when ARB wins, primarily in slippery conditions because you can turn it off. The late version detroits are inbetween here because while you can't turn them off , there are more sensitive and unlock better.

With the Lockrite in the front, when 4wding I spent more time in 2wd because you
would often loose front end in slippery conditions and 2wd was better as long as you could hold it. This was quite a severe issue and meant that I drove more in high range so I could slip the patrol in/out of 4wd.

P.S. I really nearly crashed the car into tree first time I used lockrite like others
have suggested is possible.

Robin Miller
AnswerID: 165006

Follow Up By: KSV - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 15:47

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 15:47
Thanks
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Reply By: DesC - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 18:24

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 18:24
My brother and his mates all have ARB airlockers and they swear by them performance wise. There is a catch, all of them have replaced sealing rings in them and my brothers is due again. I am not that keen to purchase the airlocker as if i wanted to remove a diff centre every 18 months to do this i would have bought Landcruiser pinion bearing bruiser. My mate in Townsville has just fitted a Lokka in the front of his part time 80 and it works really well, so i will wait to see if he has any reiability issues with it before i fit one to my GU.
AnswerID: 166734

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