Submitted: Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 22:55
ThreadID: 32531 Views:1884 Replies:8 FollowUps:2
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Yup, that stuff again, but with a different slant.
I would like to run biodiesel in the truck, so rang the local Catapillar agent over here in Perth. They very kindly sent me an e-mail detailing the spec's that woul;d be required. It made for some very interesting reading, tho it took me awhile to decipher.
Armed with this little golden nugget, i approached a Biodiesel seller here in Perth, showed him the info, and got a very nice smile. And then he told me that there was no way his stuff would match the Cat criteria.
So now its off to find someone else....hopefully.
My warning to all is that, Biodiesel may be cheaper, you may get it from a servo, your car may run great on it to start with, but what about the long term effects?
Get in writing the Biodiesel requirements for your motor, and ask if the stuff you are using meets the criteria....or as the Cat agent said,,,,,,,,,chugga, chugga,,,,,BOOM......and no warranty.
Oh, and a good friend with a Scania decided to run his truck on this Biodiesel, and is now having a few minor problems,,,,the first being alot of algae in his tanks.

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Reply By: Muzzgit (WA) - Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 23:18

Tuesday, Apr 04, 2006 at 23:18
The main danger, as I have heard, is that older vehicles will have trouble with hoses, gaskets and seals deteriorating......(fuel lines & fuel pumps etc)

This was on radio 6PR yesterday.

A couple of blokes who have tried it say fuel economy and power was down, which makes me think that it is a bigger environmental threat, if you need to use more fuel to get to the same place !!!

NO-ONE,and I mean NO-ONE, can tell me what it's gonna do to a modern engine like the 3.0 patrol or 4.2 cruiser.

What about these ultra modern common rail donks like the new release from volkswagon or nissan etc;
AnswerID: 164889

Reply By: Bilbo - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 00:08

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 00:08

Most American car makers are like that - they won't accept bio-d as a fuel. Which is typical as they support the big US oil companies like Exxon-Mobil and Caltex. That's why they invaded Iraq. But, consider, 45% of deisel fuel pool on Germany is now bio-diesel. Volkswagen and I think Audi, accept bio-d as a fuel providing it meets Australian Standard Test Method (ASTM) in Australia or Society of Autmotive Engineers (SAE) tests in Europe or API (American Petroluem Institute) tests in the USA.

As for algae problems, they will and do occur in fossil diesel quite often. Refinery tanks are full of it and a diesel or jet fuel tank in oil refinery is never completle "bottomed" or emptied to the underlying water level in the tank. So that's not a fair comparison. Algae is the main reason that people fit agglomerators (water traps with a guaze filter and clear glass bowl). These have been fiited to diesel engines for the last 50 years or so. Well before bio-d was ever heard of.

As for the TD42 engine, I ran my old TD42 in a Maverick for years on bio-d and it never missed a beat. It ran quieter, no noticeable increase or decrease in power, and only one filter change initially to clear out all the gunk that bio-d scours out of the fuel system. The agglomerator caught 99% of it. I changed the main filter just as a precaution. The exhaust smelled a lot better too.

When Otto Diesel first invented the diesel engine he ran it on heavy fuel oil. Thick black, heavy, viscous oil. Refined diesel was not available. That gives you some idea that diesels will run on almost anything as long as it's got no particlulate matter in it to block filters, fuel pumps and injectors. Here, I'm not saying that in doing so it will meet todays environmental standards, but it will run.

Even BP Oil in Australia are now introducing bio-d into thier deisel fuel pool - so we're all gonna end up with it in out tanks, like it or not.

And when the "fossfuel" runs out - there'll always be bio-d. I reckon that diesel engines will be the only engines available in around 25 years time. More and more car makers are intoducing diesel engines into thier range - even Honda. More and more countries are allowing oil companies to sell bio-d.

That must give us all an indication of what's gonna happen in the near future.


AnswerID: 164897

Follow Up By: warthog - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 10:58

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 10:58
Excellent info, thanks Bilbo, wish we could get it here.
FollowupID: 419848

Reply By: crfan - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 02:48

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 02:48
Hello Rick,
As far as I know the reason that people have problem's BioD is it cleans the algae out of the system and you may have to replace your filters as much as 5 time's in the first 500kms but then no problems.
AnswerID: 164905

Reply By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 07:59

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 07:59
The europeans seem keener on biodiesel. Latest report I heard is about 50% of usage within 10 years. They have thier own standard too.
AnswerID: 164925

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 12:12

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 12:12
>>but what about the long term effects?

Nobody cares - most only keep cars 3 years and its someone elses problem. + they are saving $ now
AnswerID: 164981

Reply By: F4Phantom - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 22:03

Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 22:03
VW in europe actually have bd as one of the reccomended fuels for some of it's models, much like if you buy a ricey car here they sometimes stipulate premium fuel. In france 5% of all fuel is BD and in germany they have 1500 outlets. They are ramping up big time. On stacks of web sites people are just buying ordinary canola oil and wacking it in with a tank of fuel. BD is superior with lubrication and apparently the engine will last longer. Lastly I know a guy in perth who has 2x old Merc diesel cars. He does a weekly round of the local fish and chip shops, he fills a large container at home, has an old diesel water cooled generator which water system runs through the fat storage tank. This keeps the stuff viscious. He told me he runs his house off pure fat, the old diesel gen just chugs away on fat all day. He runs both mercs off it too. I love the whole idea and setup, I would love to do it but its an expensive start!! Damn. I dont have any problem with throwing it in my diesel.
AnswerID: 165103

Reply By: Member - Royce- Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 00:01

Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 00:01
Not sure where I saw it, but was on TV a couple of nights ago. Logically you might think that using biodiesel is environmentally good..... but apparently rainforests are being cleared at a great rate to plant palms for palm oil... not good.. particularly for Urangutans that live in the forests.
AnswerID: 165129

Follow Up By: G.T. - Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 16:38

Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 16:38
Bugger -- I can see me being evicted again --lol regards G.T.
FollowupID: 420156

Reply By: geordie4x4 - Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 01:20

Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 01:20
I have heard that the quality standards for diesel in Australia are poor compared to Europe and that many of the vehicle manufacturers have held off supplying high teck diesels to Australia.

I wonder if the same is true for the standards for Bio D in Aus. As I understand it, the more volatile additives in diesel or bio D are what deteriorate rubber seals and gaskets. Australian high sulphur diesel is known for stuffing up Japanese diesel fuel pump seals. Hopefully improving standards for lower sulphur diesel will also help.

As for diesel "algae", I think that it is actually a sulphur reducing bacteria (SRB) that inhabits fuel tanks. This is a common problem in oil production facilities and is usually treated with a biocide chemical. Unfortunately these chemicals are quite toxic, the algae filter is probably a more environmentally friendly alternative.

I have also seen an old Nissan 6 cylinder sedan running on pure Hi Fry chip oil. This is the stuff that solidifies at room temperature. He starts the vehicle on diesel, once the motor is warm, water from the radiator is circulated through a copper coil to heat the fuel fat tank and warm the fuel lines, filter and supply pump. When it gets to 75 degrees C, a solenoid switches over to run on pure chip fat. Smells like a chip shop, but only costs him about $5 per week in diesel.
AnswerID: 165134

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