The stolen 'Cruiser, the insurance company - a fight,,,

I know where you are coming from. But the insurance companies probably have a dirtier bag of tricks up their sleeve than mining companies or the police. Remember they have one motto, you pay not us. Character assasination is just the start when they get going. I've never dealt with an insurance company that hasn't been more dishonest than half the prison population when it comes to shelling out.
If you really p them off it may cost you more than its worth. Remember that if they win, you might end up paying their charges as well.
Good Luck!

Go for it, is what I say, but that's easy for me coz I'm not the sucker having a barney with an insurance company.

We hear stories of what these mobs get up to all the time, and it is unfortunate that you firstly had the heartache of having your car stolen and now have to bang heads with these guys. Don't forget it's this guys job is to save the company money (read screw you) but I wouldn't be surprised if he backs down when face with a hard nut like youself. (no insult intended)

I hope all ends well for you.

Any hints as to which insurer?

My partner just changed all our insurance over to one mob for everything and saved a heap of bucks, and according to the policies, we are now covered a fair bit more than we used to be. I'm worried that they are jast taking our moolah to make us feel good so they can rodger us when/if we make a claim.

Cheers,

Muzz

Stick to your guns. My mate had his daughters car stolen and torched recently. He stuck to his guns and got an extra $5000 over the original offer of $8000.

Mate I know how you feel. Recently went through a similar nightmare myself.

Keep very calm and prepare as 'watertight' a case as possible before you speak to them again. I had exactly the same thing happen when my 100 was written off (not my fault) and the figure offered was not fair and reasonable in my view. I immediately and firmly declined the initial verbal offer as unsatisfactory and unacceptable. I then kept quiet whilst I assembled a file of factual information backing up my argument which included photos, newspaper advertisements and a complete itemised list of all accessories fitted with part numbers and replacement costs. Only deal with facts and avoid second or third hand opinions etc.

I met the assessor on site and politely took him through each and every mod and good point of this vehicle which placed it above the run of the mill ex-miner.

Ended up with roughly $6,000 over and above the initial offer. Well worth the effort.

I'd say their failure to differentiate between market value on a TD and the 4.5 petrol would be grounds to speak to someone higher up the food chain too. Clearly no idea.

Most things are negotiable. Good luck!

Dont want to upset you , but if your getting 36 for 2000 GXL TD with 170kms , I would be wrapped

Keep detailed notes without becoming paranoid.
Let them know in writing you are unsatisfied with the assessment and as others have stated, make a list of how they stuffed up.
Ask the loss adjustors manager for a new assessor, one that actually knows the difference in vehicles, and can communicate with you in a professional way not a condescending sod who's just come from a dodgy used car lot.
Ask the company what their internal complaint resolution process is and use it.
Ask the company what the process is you go through if you are unsatisfied with their internal complaints process - there may be some industry ombudsmen - and use it.
You can do a lot without going to court - but you know that.
And do all of this whilst maintainng your sanity and not getting paranoid.
and finally
Don't let it detract from the enjoyment of setting up your new replacement vehicle.

All the best
Tim

Hi Bilbo.
Not a nice story ,Know how you feel though, had my work shop broken into an lost a lot of stuff lucky I had top cover and got a good replacement for most my stuff but still dont have (MY STUFF) and a still find stuff that is missing.
Ask the Insurance Adjuster to find a 100 series GXL Turbo Diesel with the extras you had fitted for $38,000 and I will buy it .
Crfan

Hi Bilbo

Good luck with it all. What company are we talking about here?

be real careful with what u said about revealing the companys name if thing get worse ! dont want them coming back on u with some sort of law suit for slanddering them mate !! all the best with things anyway and hope ya get the $$ u deserve

Bilbo,this reply wont be popular but...from your post you were chasing a cheaper quoted price for the insurace offered,you chose MARKET value not AGREED value to save money...thats all.You got what you paid for.
However what is the true MARKET value i dont know it will i suspect be determined by an independant authority.
If you are as conversant with the legal system as you say you made an informed decision at the time,you wanted to save money.now go and put some effort in to prove the real value stop winging about the type of insurance YOU chose.

Mate,

Hope you do well - I had my 2002 petrol Prado (115k) written off in Oct last year - it was insured for market value plus 'extras' - I did have all the extras listed on the policy - they assessed it as a write off promptly, and paid very quickly - $44.5

This was AAMI - I have nothing but good words for them.

Best of Luck, you sound like you are onto it as regards dealing with thease guys. I have found that it's always good to keep very accurate records, don't piss anyone off and def. don't tell them everything you know. If you can pull a rabbit out of the hat infront of a referee (judge-whatever), even better if its on their letterhead, it makes the otherside look like you know what.

I would reply in writing to the assessor confirming his offer and your denial.
That 38,000 figure may change in future, - from memory.

Yes, personal experience, those insurance poeple like to haggle right up the court steps, and into court. Not cars, but did settle one claim on the steps of court, and saved the court costs.

Cool head required, which it seems you have, and be prepared to haggle.

Having worked for an insurance company , don't hold that against me, and now retired it's up to you to prove the vehicles market value which as has been stated is open to wide interpretation. Auction is the best determinant of market value but may not help your cause. I'd be looking at auction sites and 2nd hand vehicle classifides to get some amo.

I've got my TD100 insured for agreed value.

Hi Bilbo
Just found this on the Brisbane Courier Mail site,Yours could easily have ended up over this side of the country,
Ohh yeh as usual though they will only get a little rap on the knuckles

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POLICE have seized 17 stolen cars and one caravan on Brisbane's northside this week as part of an operation targeting crime gangs.

All the stolen vehicles had been altered to prepare them for sale on the black market.

Detectives have warned thieves who rebirth stolen vehicles that the raids are not over yet.

"We have detained six people so far but intend on conducting more raids," said Detective Inspector Richard Nikola, who heads the operation.

"So far we have raided 14 addresses on Brisbane's northside."

Codenamed Echo Panel, the operation is focused on catching dodgy backyard mechanics and panel beaters who are hired to modify stolen vehicles and ready them for sale, erasing identifying features.

Insp Nikola said the crime gang was a fairly elaborate organisation with links interstate.

Along with the stolen vehicles, police also found stolen number plates and car parts as well as cash and drugs.

While police want to return the cars to their rightful owners, it is going to be difficult as many of the vehicles look very different.

"We are optimistic of finding the rightful owners but in the event that they have new cars, then I'm sure insurance companies would be interested," Insp Nikola said.

Vehicle rebirthing is a growing problem.

Insp Nikola said people should be very wary when buying a car, especially older models.

It is very hard to detect whether a car has been stolen as thieves are constantly learning new ways to change vehicles.

Police recommend having an RACQ check before purchase.

Meanwhile, police have charged four people in relation to an alleged incident during which entry was gained to a car-holding yard at Eagle Farm on Brisbane's northside on Monday.

A 23-year-old South Brisbane man, a 17-year-old Taringa man, an 18-year-old Newstead man and another 18-year-old man from Kingston have been charged with unlawful use of motor vehicles, wilful damage and attempted unlawful use of motor vehicles.

All are expected to appear in Sandgate Magistrate's Court on April 19.

I'm not going to get into backyard courtroom discussions, but I wil wish you all the best.. they agreed on the value and unless they tod you otherwise then that is the agreed/market value.. so go for it.. I wish you all the best

Bilbo

I have not read all the post above, so here goes, "take it to them mate" you are well with in your rights. From memory there is a tribunal or helpline service that you can call, like an arbitrator that will help sought this mess out. They will try all their tricks but stick it to them, take them to court but get all the facts first. Hope all goes well.

Turbo

Ps

Fancy saying a petrol 4.5 can be compared to a TD4.2 what an complete and utter .........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another thing, document and diarise ALL conversations, phone calls, emails etc. Leave nothing to memory, write it all down straight away and use the 24hr clock to the minute.

Any embellishment, fudged information or uncertainty of the facts will blow your credibility and sink your case.

On the one hand, I presume your copy of the policy states a market value of $47,150.00 and you have paid premiums accordingly.

Against this, the red Book, for instance, (if I've got the model right) values it at $38,000 max.

If you agreed an insured sum of $47,150.00, then surely that should've been an "agreed" value not a "market" value. This is where the conflict lies. It seems you've reached an agreed value yet settled the premium at market value. Does that conflict show on your policy? ie: does it say insured for a "market" value of $47,150.00??? If your premiums have been based on the higher figure then the courts would have to decide in your favour. I think you need to establish that fact.

Bilbo,

go to tandy's or dick smith's and get yourself a dictaphone that can tape phone calls (very common item) and tape every phone call with the insurer. These phone calls will not necessarily be able to be used in a courtroom but they wiil be able to verify any conflict in verbal discussions between you and the insurer. If they are unaware that you have been taping them all along and you disclose this at the right time to the insurer, I feel confident you will quickly get an out of court settlement.

I wish you well and hope it works out for you. You don't need the extra heartache involved in courtroom battles.

Cheers Trevor.

You should also consider speaking to a radio station and posting the name of the insurance company in these forums. They "might" fear any negative publicity you can generate against them. I would stand your ground and fight them in court, they may back down at the last minute and try and settle before then. I had a custom FJ40 stolen that had cost me $30k and got $13k for it and at the same time they accused me of stealing it. My brother was running the stolen car sqaud at the time and he rang them and blasted them, they changed their tune later. I hate insurance companies with a passion. This year I changed my insurance company for all my 4 vehicles to Ozicare (www.ozicare.com.au) and saved 40-50% on all my premiums. I have a new Hilux SR5 TD Auto worth close to $60k insured for $380 a year.

P.S. I'm not selling insurance (LOL) just advocating some low premiums..!

Why are you suprised they want to ream you? Thats their business.

Bilbo, I am currently assisting a mate with a similar problem, there are quite a few issues here but here are a couple of suggestions.

Firstly review the policy document and terms of settlement.

Secondly if their offer is inadequate, gather you own independent evidence of "market" or whatever other value the policy document says they will settle based upon, to assist in supporting your argument (which will be used for the later steps below).

Review the policy document for dispute resolution procedure if necessary...............
then..................... if no joy after going through that process (which will not be suprising) go to www.iecltd.com.au which provides for an independent review of both sides, this is where if you have lots of supprting documentation the odds will be more in your favour.

Good luck

Darren

Sure its just nothing more than them trying it on before coming up with a more reasnable price? I mean comparing a factory TD to a 4.5 sounds like them hoping you are stupid. I reckon when they realize you are not they will come to the party although I would be suprised if you get full value

Bilbo

All you have to do is appoint your own motort vehicle valuer, here in qld they are registered just like house and land valuers and get them to give you a report on what there valuation $$ of the car would be with all the information supplied by you pertaining to extras on the car etc end of story as they are a recognised professional ask the assessor what his qualifications are ??? on valuing vehicles probably nil most assessors expertise is on repairing vehicles

Greenant

I appointed an indepandant vehicle valuer in QLD a few years ago when the MRS wrote her Barina off. The insurance company offered 9K and I was not happy with that, so I got the valuer in, paid them about $250, they valued the vehicle at 12k. This was submitted to the insurer and they paid the 12k in full less the excess.

The valuer went on sight and inspected the vehicle assumming it was in an undamaged state and submitted his report to the insurer. Since you don't have the vehicle you will need to supply a heap of photos and specify all the particulars of the vehicle i.e make, model, extras, mileage, obtain yor service history from toyota and supply reciepts for this, have the service manager or any other person who used to service it fill out a staturtory declaration stating the condition and any other supporting documentation.

Good luck

Bilbo is the figure of $47150 clearly written on your policy??? if it is could you post the paragraph around this figure so we can see the context in which the figure applies.

Hi Bilbo,

If your insurer is a member of the Insurance Council of Australia they will get involved as mediator.

Got me $2000 more on my wifes $14500 Corolla a few years ago now.

We bought it for $12500 but it was valued at $14500. (Market Value)

It was written it off two weeks later and they said we're not paying more than $12500 less the excess. That's all you paid for it two weeks ago.

I suggested that the replacement value was higher which it was (a mate at a Toyota dealer did us a big favour to get that one in the first place). I also suggested that had I won it in a raffle for $2 a ticket I couldn't replace it for $2 either.

Anyway the long and the short of it was that when the IC of A got involved and dealt a few rungs up the food chain above those which I could access they paid the full amount less the excess.

Dave

Bilbo i wish you success with your claim,however your policy states approx market value of $47150 TODAY.This is not agreed value,they would have an argument to pay less than $47150 the only question is what is the correct market value at the time of loss?????????
In the info you have supplied so far there is no representation by the insurer that the value was specified as $47150 it only says APPROXIMATELY
Good luck let us know how you go.

Ok - the saga continues, the story so far,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Day one - offer? $38,000.00 all in. $36,000.00 for the car and $2,000.00 for the extras.

They were told to stick it.

Day two - offer? $39,000.00. Still $2,00.00 fer the extras and now $37,000.00 fer the car.

They were told to stick it even further till their eyes watered,,,,

Day three = offer $42,000.00 all up including the extras. This is their "Final Offer" and I've asked for it in writing. We're now getting close to a 'ball park' figure I reckon.

Note - this third offer was made after "extensvive research" by my insurance company of the Perth used car market in Toyota 100 series Turbo Diesels with manual gearbox". Dealers have said to my insurance company that these cars are like hen's teeth, everybody wants 'em, they're sold within days of being on the lot and the absolute minimum price for one in good condition is $40,000.00, the average selling price obtained by dealers is $43,000.00.

I can concur with the above remarks 'cos it took me 4 months to find mine in Perth before I bought it.

I'm thinikng about the new offer 0f $42,000.00,,,,,,,,,,

And all you doomsayers can just go and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well let's put it another way, if you accept what the systems dishes out then you deserve what ya get.

Bilbo

Truckster,

I'm still about $5,000.00 out of pocket on what the vehicle cost after it was 100% finished. That's my own fault. The roof rack, solar panels and drawer system had been fitted only about 2 weeks before it was stolen. We just didn't get around to informing the insurance company - you know how these things can get away from ya. We meabt to, but we didn't. So I'll have to cop that as they won't cover these items unless they were declared. Although, their policy is a bit ambiguous on this point and I might purse the roof rack issue.

What they have now told me is that any of the extras that I had fitted by the dealer at time of purchase 2 and a half years ago - caravan braking, cruise control, Kaymar wheel carrier, electronic rust prevention, paint pack protection, snorkel, etc - they will not pay for as they have no record of them being told about them. Now that vehicle was bought using a Salary Sacrifice deal with my then employer through SMB Novalease. SMB insisted that I insure the lot as they technically still onwed the car.

I distiinctly remember the phone call telling my insurance company about everything had been put on it. Now the insurance company denies that they have ever been informed of these items or the phone call. I definitely told their "quotes people" about these items - why wouldn't I? - and was informed that such things are normal on a vehicle such as this and there's no need to specify them on the policy !!!!

I took that as gospel. Silly me.

However, I've found that successive policies have noted that a "cruise control" was fitted - these words, "cruise control" were typed out twice, repeated, in the little box titled "Non-Standard Acessories and Modifications", which shows a lack of correct data recording. But I ask myself that if they made a note of this item, then why didn't they make a note of everything. I would have no reason whatsoever not to tell them about all the other stuff.

They've changed their tune about the extras now. Instead of offering me $40,000.00 plus $2,000.00 for these extras (as in previous offers) they are now saying that as they have no record of these extras that the $42,000.00 they have now offered does not include the extras!! It's now $42,000.00 for just the car. This is a complete turnaround. Bloody ridiculuous!!

They also told me that if it goes to independent valuation ( bit like trying to find an independent lawyer or doctor, an oxymoron in fact) then I would have no further redress. I would have to accept the value placed on the car by the indepedent valuer. This is incorrect. I have access to the Insurance Ombudsman and Consumer Affairs and you can never in any contract whatsoever, in Australia, sign away your legal rights. You cannot "contract your way out of the law". So again this issue of "sharp practice" is apparent, if not outright lies, misrepresentation and threats.

I can see "Consumer Affairs" in the distance, followed by the Insurance Ombudsman,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I thought retirement was supposed to be QUIET!!

But my youngest son (29 years old) has me absolutely weighed up. He said to me "Dad, you're enjoying this aren't ya, you get off on challenging the system dontcha?"

Guess what - he's right! I hate mongrels such as these and Australia is full of 'em right now.

Thanks for your support guys.

Bilbo

Get a Cover note and see what value they put the car at ! That value is current !
( I guess it will be about 47k )

Regards Rod