Home build Endless air & Air operated winch
Submitted: Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 10:19
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Twigiee
Hi All,
Just finnished
my home build endless air into 80 series GXL 1hzdt (turbo). Bloody quick compressor! Had to move the existing sanden 508 compressor (not sure if this is original air con compressor) down and forward to fit an additional sanden 507 compressor (ex mitsu colt) above.
I've been thinking about
winches and am wondering if anyone has thought of or knows about whether an air operated winch can be done. In theory, I reckon the 'endless air' compressor should have enought guts to run an air winch, and i know that air
winches are available for industrial applications - but i've never seen or heard this idea with a 4wd winch. Anyone have any comments?
Cheers,
Twigiee
Reply By: Scoey (QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 10:48
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 10:48
Hi Twigiee,
I'm curious about what you've done! Let me know if I have got this right... You've installed an additional A/C compressor and it is modified somehow to operate as an air compressor? That sounds tops! Where might I find more info on this and do you need a high level of mechanical expertise or special
tools to do it? I have a 1FZ-FE 80 Series.
How quick could you pump a 33" tire from say 20psi to 36psi with it?
Cheers
Scoey!
AnswerID:
164957
Follow Up By: Twigiee - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 12:16
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 12:16
Scoey,
Thats right. This has been done many times before. There is heaps on information in previous posts on this
forum. The commercially available version is called the 'endless air' and is fairly pricey.
Basically you need to make a bracket, belt tensioner and lubrication mechanism for a normal A/C compressor to make it into an air compressor. The most difficult part is making the bracket - i.e. welding, grinding, cutting drilling etc. Apparently the 1FZ-FE conversion is relatively straight forward, because no original equipment needs to be moved (i had to move the original compressor). Because the bracket must be made accuratly I would say you need to be competent with welding and metal fabricating.
Last weekend it took around 20 seconds to pump from 30 to 37 psi on my 33 x 12.5 coopers before i blew a hose off. i've limited the compressor to 150 PSI but still managed to blow a hose off its fitting!
Twigiee
FollowupID:
419859
Follow Up By: Scoey (QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 12:22
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 12:22
Sounds great! I'll have to look into it! I've always wanted an under bonnet compressor but have been sceptical of the little electric ones that are around. I'll do a search and see what I come up with! Thanks for the info!
Cheers
Scoey
FollowupID:
419860
Reply By: Member - Doug T (QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 14:01
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 14:01
I can remember my Dad had a spark plug pump , how you used it was take out 1 spark plug and screw the fitting on one end of the small air hose, connect it to the tyre valve and start the engine and it pumped up tyres in no time , No good for diesels of course , Have not seen them on the market for years.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Sam013 - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 16:39
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 16:39
They were brilliant............... at turning your tires into bombs..... they were pumping air and vapourised fuel into your tires.......... (my dad had one too)
Lawrence
FollowupID:
419898
Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 18:27
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 18:27
Lawrence
Yeh you got a good point there about the vaporised fuel, could be a serious issue for a smoker at a tyre service joint when he lets the air out . Could be a factor why we don't see them now.
Doug
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419927
Follow Up By: Sam013 - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 22:00
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 22:00
Doug
If I recall correctly they were outlawed due to some tires exploding... not sure, its a long time ago. But damn dangerous.
Lawrence
FollowupID:
419973
Follow Up By: kev.h - Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 18:09
Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 18:09
Hi doug
The ones that turned your tyres into bombs were usually
home made from a spark plug and a piece of hose" damn dangerous"
The commercial ones had a piston arrangement which was operated by the compression of the engine and then pumped fress air into your tyres
The problems were they could pump ot
well over 1000 psi hence the tyres blowing up -They also filled your hot exhaust with raw fuel which blew up several mufflers
and caused the odd fire
Regards Kev
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420186
Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (QLD) - Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 18:21
Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 18:21
Hi Kev
Mate I can't remember much about it , I think last i seen it would have been mid 60s and I have a fair idea he chucked because the hose was fraying,as for a valve .... I dont think so , this thing would pumped air direct from the cyclinder , what i can remember it did have a flange about the size of a 20c piece atop where the thread was where it went onto the engine, I have never seen them since, The ol 12v jobs we got these days are far superior , and those things would as we all know no good for diesels, did you see the Sat photo's i set up today , look for the Post sometime today, Must get Wolfe Creek ,
Doug
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Follow Up By: Member - David 0- Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 18:55
Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 18:55
Sounds like a new opportunity since fuel injection. Simply unplug the injector on that cylinder, and no more bombs
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Reply By: fatz - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 15:34
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 15:34
Twiggy, have used an air winch on many occasions to haul in underground power cable. If i remember correctly the five to unit we had weighed about 380 KG and required a minimum of 250cfm to drive it. Might be something more suited out there but My thoughts would be that it would be a fairly cumberspome unit!!
Mick
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Follow Up By: Twigiee - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 21:54
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 21:54
Thanks Fatz, that may explain why i've never seen or heard of one for a car before...
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Reply By: ferris - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 16:21
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 16:21
Hi Twiggie. As has already been posted, there's heaps of info on this
forum about this style of compressor. I've had one for a couple of years now and it gets heaps of work. Tractor tyres are no problem, it will run a rattle gun and I've even done spray painting with it. Heat is the biggest problem with this unit. To overcome this I used high pressure a/c hoses and fittings to a fair sized air tank to cool the air. A 2nd hand air tank off a truck is the ideal size, and solved my problem of blowing hoses every 5 minutes. The other problem is lubrication, and I installed a grease nipple and pump it full of high temp grease. Seems to work ok. Cheers Ferris.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Twigiee - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 21:57
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 21:57
Ferris, i'm planning on getting a high pressure hose made up and a ex truck cyclinder of probably around 10-15 litres, but i'm not real sure what tank size to get. It pumps up the tyres like a rocket anyway, but at least then i could run
tools etc.
Twigiee
FollowupID:
419971
Reply By: Voxson (Adelaide) - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 16:30
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 16:30
Hiya Twigiee,,,
I have taken a ticket for you to install one of these endless air setups in my car..
I have seen the endless ones work and they make my MaxAir look like a convicts fart....
So if you have time i would like you to fly down to my place over
Easter and install it....
How does that sound??... Pretty good!!! Great... Seeya then... hehehehe...
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Twigiee - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 22:01
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 22:01
Hey there mate, you wouldn't believe but i'm actually going to be in
Adelaide for the weekend. Arrive tomorrow night. I cant work on a patrol though..LOL we'll have to catch up - i'll bring some pics.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Voxson (Adelaide) - Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 07:54
Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 07:54
No worries mate,,, gimme a call...
Even if you need a taxi service...
FollowupID:
420017
Reply By: Mudness - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 17:10
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 17:10
Hi Twigiee, do you have any pics that you are willing to share? How is the compressor driven ie by one belt, now running both? Cheers
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Twigiee - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 22:13
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 22:13
G'day, I'm happy to share photo's, but i'm not sure of the best way to get them to you. I can email, or is there some fancy way of posting them..?
Before the A/C compressor was running of the front of the two v's on the compressor pulley. I moved the A/C compressor forward to its now on the back of the two v's. I run the second 'air' compressor off the on the rear of the two v's, from the front v on the A/C compressor (i.e a second belt). I hope that makes sense...really need photo's.
However, if you're thinking of installing one into a 80 series turbo diesel, i suspect
mine may have a non original A/C compressor (someone on this
forum may be able to confirm this). its a Sanden 508 and an air con place once told me that it's aftermarket air conditioning. This would make sense because its a common belief that there is no room for a second compressor for this conversion on the 80 series TD - i think the 'endless air' is on the other side near the power steering pump...?
Twigiee
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Mudness - Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 09:07
Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 09:07
G'day Twigiee, you can send them straight to me if you like. My email is, lisaandbruce@dodo.com.au I had a similar idea but like most other people, had not got around to starting it. The more help the better I reckon. Thanks
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420032
Reply By: revhead307 - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 18:03
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 18:03
A Mate had a spare aircon compressor on his 45 Series Troopy. He used to pump up all his 4 tyres and be helping someone else by the time I was finishing my 1st tyre with my crappy Hurricane compressor.
I've had a look in my GQ and it would take someone more creative and mechanical than i to find room under the bonnet lol. would love to have one tho.
Rev
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Sarg - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 21:26
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 21:26
Idealy, a piston type compressor should be used in preferance to a rotary one: ie a
York instead of a Sanden (depending on space available to mount it). Yorks were used on early Fords & Chryslers & a lot of trucks. Try the wreckers for one.They can be mounted verticle or horizontal, & don't need a seperate lube system as they have their sump seperated from the barrel/piston.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Twigiee - Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 22:19
Wednesday, Apr 05, 2006 at 22:19
Sarg - your exactly right about the
york compressors, no room though.
I found an interesting
forum discussion with some photos of a sanden 508 in a turbo 1hz - slightly different to the way that i've done it. Its at:
Site Link
Twigiee
AnswerID:
165106
Reply By: Stuart - Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 02:40
Thursday, Apr 06, 2006 at 02:40
Hi Guys, I set my first air con compressor up about 12 years ago (saw someone else with one) and I never had to replace it. The Sandens are made exrtemely
well like most others and use Tefflon rings on the pistons. Several mates have seen
mine and done likewise. We simply accesed the compressor via
the nut in the body of the pump (about 14mm) and gave it a good squirt of WD40 or similar every so often. Never had a pump fail doing it this way and most of the pumps came from the tip to start with. I wouldn't fill the pump with grease as I think it will eventually find it's way into the air line unless you make some kind of trap as the pumps are designed to circulate oil & refridgerant together thoughout the air con system. This is one reason the
York pumps are better but a lot heavier. I have a 350 Chev in my 80 Series and there is no room for a second compressor so I have almost finished building a portable version. I have a small 4 stroke aluminium stationary engine with the compressor on one side and and altenator on the other. So far in testing it works like a charm. A charger and compressor in one.
For the cut off switch I use the one supplied by ARB (about $45) for their compressors as it cuts in at 80psi and cuts out again at 100- 110psi. I found with my car running at 1200 rpm the compressor would out run or out pump an 8mm air line and while I was pumping up the tyres I could hear the pump cycling on and off. A tank of about 150mm X 500mm is more than enough and you can get by with no tank at all. This system is cheap if you can do it yourself, reliable and faster than ANY electric pump on the market. Hope this helps, Stuart.
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