Most New older tech Diesels being detuned

Submitted: Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 15:00
ThreadID: 32829 Views:2145 Replies:5 FollowUps:11
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Just been told that all new Land Cruisers diesels will be detuned by Toyota to meet the new emission ADR's.

This will also apply to Nissan patrols (4.2ltr) and all other older tech diesels etc. This doesn't affect the new Hilux or Navara as they have newer engines, exhausts that comply with the emission regs.
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Reply By: TerraFirma - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 15:19

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 15:19
I must say I'm not surprised , both the Toyota and Nissan diesel engines in these vehicles are old designs when compared to the 4th generation common rail diesel technology used by Mercedes and others. The new Hilux is Toyota's 1st Common Rail Diesel Engine and this technology is a giant leap forward. We have already seen a hint of Toyota's all new Landcruiser which reports claim could be a 4.4l Twin Turbo Diesel V8, thats a big jump forward on the current engine. Bring on the new model I say but I know some of you die hard 4WD'ers will dissaprove..! LOL
AnswerID: 166691

Follow Up By: KSV - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 16:46

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 16:46
I personally prefer “old style” diesel, I admire these engines – purely mechanical devises without any unnecessarily gizmos. Smokes a bit? Probably. Does not have extra 10 nm of torque? Probably also. But, man, being as simple as possible those engines **EXTREMALY** reliable. I have 60 with normally aspirated diesel. Clock 350k (and believe that I got it winded down) and never even lift up engine head! In contrast I know one fellow who drove 250k 500 series Mercedes. One day this “state of the art” piece of cr@p refuse to start. It took 10 days to Mercedes to figure out what is cooking. It was one of 12 computers. It took them another week to fix it. New modern extremely overcomplicated technologies does not make things more reliable or more “fixable”, but rather more “disposable”. Just my 2 cents. NB I am very OK for high-tech engines in “city slickers”
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Follow Up By: Member -Traveller (QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 18:00

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 18:00
"500 series Mercedes?" Certainly wouldn't have been a diesel. 5 litre petrol perhaps. “state of the art piece of cr@p?" Mmmm! Our ML270 diesel (220k and barely run in) follows an E300d (450k) and never a spanner on either. Cheapest motoring we've ever enjoyed!
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Follow Up By: KSV - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 18:17

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 18:17
I have not say it was diesel. Also I do not know about your “cheapest motoring”, but another fellow of mine ditch his Mercedes CLK ??? just because it was cost him way to-o-o-o-o much for routine service. If you add up service cost it does not became so cheap. Plus depreciation on expensive car is much bigger (in $$$ not in per cent) comparing to something simple like Camry or Magna. If you have enough money to pay for your favorite toy – good on you, I have no problem with that, just do not say that this is cheapest way. Just my 2 cents.
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Follow Up By: Member -Traveller (QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 19:06

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 19:06
We must have very reasonably priced Benz service from our dealer in country Qld. Compared to our farm L/Cruiser service costs the Mercedes are very reasonable indeed. Sorry to hear of your "fellows" experiences.
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Follow Up By: KSV - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 22:17

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 22:17
This “fellow” running 50+M business. Originally he has fleet of Benz vans (5 or so). Now only one left (rest are Toyotas). On my question “Why?” he answered “Unreliable and cost an arm and a leg in service and repair”. On Toyotas he has quite opposite opinion “Absolutely bullet proof”. BTW for his sales reps he keeps Magnas for very simple reason – cheapest cars per kilometer to keep on the road. I understand everything – European appealing, prestige etc. But value for money? 4WD ability? Huge doubts. ML series is not 4WD at all – just Toorak tractors, nothing more. Coming back to my original post I can add that my 60 series LC has **VERY** hard live, yet manage to survive to 350k with nothing more then scheduled oil change in my garage. I am sorry, but I am in huge doubts that any Merc can withstand such an abuse. Coming back to your post I can notice that Benz service is only “reasonable” (i.e. not cheaper). Mind that Toyota service never been cheap at all I can only conclude what I new ages ago – European “prestige” brand never been value for money. Again if you happy to have (and can afford) your toy I have no problem at all – everyone free to spend his/her money whenever they like. Wanna another proof? Do you know what is 40 series LC? Have you notice how many of them still on the road? Should I continue? Relax and be proud to ride you Toorak tractor.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member -Traveller (QLD) - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 07:21

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 07:21
Mate, I've owned L/Cruisers since the bears were bad and swear by them! There are three in the shed at the moment. But they don't have a 25,000k service interval as does the ML, and they certainly don't handle the 35km of gravel corrugation that we have to traverse to get to the highway anything like the ML, and they certainly don't return the 8.9l/100km that my ML has averaged since day one! Get you head out of the sand! Toorak tractor my a..e!
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Follow Up By: TerraFirma - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 11:24

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 11:24
I am a Toyota owner and still own a Merc. I have both a Landcruiser V8 and new Hilux TD. Toyota is by far the more reliable vehicle. The Merc is an AMG model only 4 years, and here is what has gone wrong.

1. Noisey Valvetrain on startup when oil is over 4000km old. (Goes away when oil changed)
2. 2 x Mass Air Sensors replaced (Vehicle stalls when these fail)
3. Carbon Flush x 2 to clear carboned combustion chambers (was told to drive the car on the highway more to fix this)
4. Rattle in car, took me 2 years to find, Mercedes couldn't help
5. Window Seal on right hand side was hindering window from going up.
6. 2 of the 3 LCD displays have washed out characters (Can't read them when cold)
7. $3,000 to replace brakes with new rotors etc (AMG brakes dearer)
8. car has done 95,000km's

The V8 Cruiser has done 220,000km's and replaced a battery..! Light in stereo died, thats about it..!

P.S. Love the new Hilux TD, fantastic, friends ask me why I don't drive the Merc, I tell them, one day you'll understand. I haven't tried the Merc Diesel vehicles so I can't comment. Their common rail diesel tech is well advanced though compared to Toyota.
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Follow Up By: KSV - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 13:27

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 13:27
2 Traveller

Get my head out of the sand to understand what? That ML has better fuel economy? I have stated it in my first post. ML offer more plush ride then say troopie? I have no doubt about that. What I was stated that
a) ML is not a 4WD, but just a big car with all wheals driven by engine, if you want proof of this then go anywhere where people doing 4WD-ing and spot as least one ML – I will eat my hat after that;
b) modern technologies despite bring some advantages does not make vehicles more reliable – your ML will be immobilized if some crap like Mass Air Sensors failed; and
c) if one fork say 100K then basic LC (53K) will get him further then ML (80K entry ticket) (including cost of vehicle, service, fuel and spares). Yes modern Benz or BMW could require to change oil at 20k or more interval, but price for this would be $400+. For this money I can change oil in my LC as many as 8 times (I am talking about good stuff), hence your 25,000/8=3,125. Or from another hand if I would change it at 5K I can drive 5,000*8=40,000km for same money
May I ask you why you still keep LC in your shed? My best guess would be you take them when you need to do some more serious stuff, than ride 35km in corrugated road – the biggest challenge which ML can withstand.
ML is expensive prestige toy and their owners care after it as after expensive prestige toy and I bet that no one ML ever seen as hard live as some LC get even in it’s worst dreams. So is this comparison really correct? Not really IMHO, and yet LC still can stay for itself. This over-complication (and as result price escalation) is really in favor of manufactures, not consumers. Not only price of vehicle became bigger, but also service became more expensive and can not be carried anywhere except dialer, i.e. monopoly and again price escalation. Some enjoy ride “state of the art” piece of bleep metal, but I rather have (say) titanium pistons for the same price. So rather you get your head out of sand and proudly drive “the best of the best” as I have no doubts Benz told you.
Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Member -Traveller (QLD) - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 13:38

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 13:38
The difference here is that I drive and use both, and can compare directly, and may I say, fairly. Obviously someone ran over your pet dog in a Benz once! I won't be responding to any more of your ill-informed gibberish.
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Follow Up By: KSV - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 14:49

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 14:49
LOL!!!!! How much snobbism one can gain just by becoming an owner of “prestige” car!!! Thanks a lot for healthy laughing and have a great Easter!
Cheers.
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Reply By: TerraFirma - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 15:30

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 15:30
Here is a link on the reported 2007 model 130 series V8 twin turbo diesel , I think we may need "The Look" to grow on us. This is close to 600nm or torque I would think.
AnswerID: 166694

Reply By: TerraFirma - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 15:31

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 15:31
Sorry here is the link:

Site Link

AnswerID: 166695

Follow Up By: ro-dah-o (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 18:20

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 18:20
Is it just me or are new vehicles getting uglier and uglier???

I can see new toyota owners attending AN meetings in the future

--beer, helping toyota owners since 2006
LOL
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Reply By: Leroy - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 13:16

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 13:16
prob be able to 'retune' your engine. Bit like the detuning that was done to Holden and Ford petrol engines in the early '80's. The manufaturers retarded the cam timing by however many degress. If you bought an aftermarket timing chain kit it had multiple keyways on the sproket so you set your cam timimg and advance it for better performance.

Leroy
AnswerID: 166879

Reply By: sav - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 17:45

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 17:45
The Nissan TD4.2 has been 'de-tuned' for a while now.
They added the intercooler at the same time as the EGR - for a net gain of zero.
They also just about crimp the exhaust pipe just after the dump pipe (which is tiny) in order to help meet the current requirements.
No chance for enough changes to make it survive past 1st Jan next year (Euro IV regs).
Good thing is though - the current detuned state is easy to fix!

Sav.
AnswerID: 166915

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