Canning Stock Route

Submitted: Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:47
ThreadID: 32841 Views:1899 Replies:6 FollowUps:13
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I was talking to Vic early to-night about the Canning. He said that I will have 10 vehicles on the trip, but the trip might not go ahead.

Now we have to get permission from the the traditional owners. This does not just apply to a Tour Group but to ever one wanting to travel any part of the CSR this year.

In the past permission was not required to go to any of the Wells or to any part of the track. It is the centennial year and the locals are are flexing a bit of authority.

It would be a pity to cancel the trip because of a bit of red tape.

Wayne
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Reply By: roofscooter2 - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:52

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:52
Wayne are you sure the tape is RED!!! It seems to me that we ""Ausies"" are losing more & more to the ---- tape.Happy Easter. Bob.
AnswerID: 166774

Reply By: Willem - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:54

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:54
THats a very vague statement, Wayne.

More info required
AnswerID: 166776

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:59

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 20:59
Willem,

That is all the info at this time. Vic is going to talk to them tomorrow and try and obtain permission.

I will be away from tomorrow until after Easter. I will call Vic again when I get back for a follow up.

Wayne
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Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:07

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:07
Sorry Wayne

I disagree with you premise.

Who are they ('them') ?

Don't post scaremongering stuff on a forun unless you have established info, please.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:12

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:12
Willem,
The traditional owners of the land that the CSR passes through.

I have no more info than that.

Wayne
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Follow Up By: equinox - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:33

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:33
Some sections of the CSR surely go through unallocated crown land???

Eq

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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:45

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 21:45
That is true, but when you get to say, Well 26 and have to get permission to further what happens there. Turn around and go back?

I don't know how they are going to police this?

Wayne
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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 04:07

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 04:07
There is absolutely no updated information on the Dept of Indigenous Website relating to CSR travel. They control access in and out of communities and applications for transit permits. There are some grey areas though with WA Land Councils imposing permit restrictions on certain roads. It is all about control and the justification of a bureaucracy.

The Martu Native Title Land Claim was settled in 2002 and some of the country includes from about Well 10 to the southern edge of Lake Disappointment which will include Calvert Ranges, Killigurra Gorge, Durba Springs and Diebel Springs.

Maybe the information has not been relayed to the website but I would have thought that in such an important matter it would have been. Who knows?

Will do some more research.
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Reply By: Richard Kovac - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 23:16

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 23:16
Hi Wayne

I no it may be hard to get info over east but try reading info on this site just hit the home tab.

Site Link

Richard
AnswerID: 166807

Follow Up By: Member - Marquis - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 09:11

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 09:11
I cannot see any places on the canning stock route that cross reserves.

22956 is close.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 09:31

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 09:31
Maybe our indigenous friends have declared it a reserve, as they now have the Kings Domain Gardens in Melbourne.

Very convenient that the Melbourne "sacred site" is in the middle of a pristine park, & not the middle of Swanston Street or the Flinder's Street Station!
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Reply By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 13:22

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 13:22
The situation is this:

The most recent land claim determination for the Martu people of the Western Desert is not particularly good for travellers....

ALL the area between Wells 16 and 40 have been handed back to the local Martu people - in all 136,000sq km of land. However, recent accepted claims have also handed back land that includes Well 1 to Well 16 (Wiluna and Birriliburu claims) and Well 40 to the Tanami Track and beyond (Ngurrara claim). You can see a map and get a copy of the determinations on the web at:

www.nntt.gov.au/media/1033720087_2600.html or: www.nntt.gov.au/hotspots/1043831108_2600.html

We have been in correspondence with a number of people, including Ron Moon, and we are of the understanding that the CSR is not closed off as it is a public access route. However it appears that access to Durba, the Caverts, Percival lakes, Carnarvon Ranges, Lake Dissapointment and any country lying adjacent to the CSR may be closed off completely or will only be by permit!

There is a fair bit up in the air at the moment and as soon as we have anything more to advise you will be the first to know.
Michelle Martin
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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 21:53

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 21:53
Thanks for that Michelle.

It is pretty much what I had expected. Hopefully they will tarry, while we sneak through on our last hurrah in the WA outback this year. Have been to most places along the route in the past. Not sure what we are doing this year and will decide while on the run through the west.

Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Peter D M - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 23:39

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 23:39
i have today received a letter from the Ngaanyatjarra Council Native Title Unit explaining this situation.
the Martu People have exclusive possession native title over all the land between well 15 and well 40, except the CSR itself as the public have access rights to it but only the track. they are concerned about the increased numbers of tour groups and individual travellers unlawfully entering their land and the damage and lack of respect shown to towards their culturally significant areas.
the letter goes on to say they will consider written requests for permission to access their land and that they are not generally opposed to the concept of tourism in the area. they also say how they have granted access to the public and are keen for their culture and history to be shared with all.
a very detailed and thoughtfull document explaining their concerns and requirements for access.
i hope this area can be saved for everyones enjoyment but we need changes to the attitude of some travellers or else another spot can be added to the closed of regions of oz, the forrests, national parks, beaches, pastoral leaseses etc that have the keep out, no entry, no camping signs up.

regards peter
AnswerID: 166955

Follow Up By: Willem - Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 06:26

Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 06:26
Having dealt with the Ngaanyatjarra Council before my comment is that what they aspire to in writing and what they actually do, are two diffrent things.

My experience is that it is a bureaucratic mess. But maybe they will mend their inefficient ways.

Our modern day fuedal system is working well. History is repeating itself and eclipsing the system that existed in the Middle Ages.

Most people who drive through the outback care for the land and the environment. Increased popularity of areas will tend to become well used and littering will occur. Thats human nature. I think aboriginal culture has misplaced concerns about access to lands etc and that the bureaucrats control the destiny of things, flexing their new found muscles through the Native Title legislation.

Native Title of thousands of square kilometres of land is now vested in a handful of people who in essence contrbute very little to modern day society. In real life they exist through handouts and have not aspired to improving their lot. Outback communities of the Western Deserts speak for themselves where squalor seems to be the norm.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 06:50

Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 06:50
I often wonder how much of this locking out and Permits and beurocracy etc actually comes from the traditional owners? certainly when getting permits in Alice for the GCR I wasn t dealing with TO but rather just white girls doing a job. I wonder if it is people like that who seem to be running the show just make the rest up coz they think it is what TO want?
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Follow Up By: kesh - Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 08:37

Friday, Apr 14, 2006 at 08:37
What strange times we exist in.
As adventure tourism, outback travel, appreciation of indiginous culture (including purchase of their artwork) and other associated travel interests becoming increasingly significant for the financial viabilty of many of our remote locations conversely we are slowly but surely being choked out.

During the last couple of years I have noticed a significant improvement in the attitude of the outback traveller, the "Sorbent flowers" much less conspicuous and the empty tinnies and "stumpies" being either buried or taken out. I think responsible tour operators and forums such as this play a significant role here plus the likes of the "keep Australia clean" campaigns.

Sadly, none of this seems to extend to our "traditional landholders" who appear totally incapable of maintaining even minimum standards of hygiene and domestic cleanliness around their settlements. Yet they want to make it as difficult as possible for us to access "their" lands which to all intent and pupose are simply open space and not used as any viable income producing asset. Any claim that we interfere with the "cultural significance" is rather stretching it. The town that we live in has its population of indiginous people of whom some certainly more than interfere with "our" cultural significance. But one cant do anything about that.

It will never happen through any of our apologist governments, but if quite simply all those handouts and funding was removed, and any land seen as having no effort made on it to derive a viable income was forfeited back to the crown (under no circumstances sold) a change would happen. But pigs would be flying then, too.

happy travelling. kesh

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Reply By: Willem - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 05:35

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 05:35
Wayne

Any follow up information from Vic?

Or did it slip your mind....LOL

Cheers
AnswerID: 167716

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 08:37

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 08:37
Willem,

After reading what Michelle and Peter had replied to in this post there was not much more that I could add. They have said it all.

The letter was sent to Vic because he has, as a tour operator been on the CRS before and was planning another trip this year.

Peter might have been in the same position as the letter he has received is very similar to what Vic received.

Vic did ring on Thursday but they were too busy to talk and said that would ring back this week.

The general public have not been informed and as far as I know, and the web site has not been up dated.

Michelle has some links in her post. E-mail them and tell them that you are going and if you have not heard from them by a certain date you will assume that it is OK for you to travel in that area. LOL

Wayne
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