An interesting fridge experiment,

Submitted: Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 15:01
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I own two 12volt fridges, a very old 29 litre Engel and a 110 litre Waeco.
I've wanted to know for quite some time exactly what they draw. One of the advantages of working in industrial process control is you have access to some really great test equipment that is also extremely accurate.

Before Easter I brought home a paperless chart recorder. That's a machine that logs inputs to in this ones case floppy disk and ethernet. It gives trends and graphs, some maths functions and the best part allows me to integrate or totalise inputs.

What I did was connected both fridges to seperate 12V DC power supplies (2 x GME 13.5volt 10amp). Fed the voltage and the current they are drawing into seperate inputs on the recorder. (The current is being measured as millivolts from a pair of Jaycar shunts) From there I am able to trend and record the values.
I've also set up two maths channels for each fridge. One channel tells me the instantaneous power draw of the fridge in VA or since they are DC devices, Watts. The other maths channel integrates the current in amps thus giving me the total Ahrs drawn by each fridge.

I kicked the whole show off at 4pm on Good Friday and left it overnight. The Waeco was already down to temperature, about 0 to 1 deg C. The Engel was started warm and by about lunchtime Saturday was also down to about 0 to 1 deg C.

Then the load, I stuck two 10 litre containers of room temperature water into the Waeco on the Saturday around lunchtime and left it. At the same time I stuck one 10 litre container in the Engel. Both fridges pulled the water down and are now running at the previous mentioned temperatures.

What have I learnt?
The old Engel starts out at nearly 100 watts and just before it cycles off is down to about 95 watts.
The Waeco starts out at nearly 90 watts and just before it cycles off is down to about 70 watts.
Pretty much what I'd expect from this type of load.

As of 3pm on the 17th the Engel had consumed about 125 amp hours and the Waeco about 150 amp hours. That's each fed from a constant voltage power supply of 13.5 volts DC.
This gives me a base line for how much power they'll use in ideal conditions.

Real data tells me that from batteries I'd need at least three and ideally four 100% charged 120Ahr AGM's or similar to run one of the fridges for this time period and load profile without recharging.
What it also tells me is those on this forum using solar trickle charging are on the right track.

Another thing it tells me is the level of exaggeration on run times some people report for their Engel’s and Waeco's. I've always wondered why my batteries flattened so fast now I know!

Geoff.

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Reply By: signman - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 15:31

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 15:31
All good but..what was the ambient temperatures during your test??? I assume you had them rigged up in the garage or similer sheltered area, where maxi/min ambient variations would not be extreme as in the real world (ie- bouncing around in the back of the Troopy).
I do note you mentioned in "ideal conditions" ....
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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 15:43

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 15:43
Hi signman,
You are correct, the temperature wasn't stated in my post but implied with the comment about ideal conditions.
It was conducted in the spare bedroom at home. I can check the max and min ambient temperatures tonight and adjust my report to suit. At a guess no more than mid to late 20's max and maybe 10 min. I'll check that later.
As you say, it gets much worse bouncing around in the back of the Troopy at a battery voltage of say 12 and an ambient of 35 deg C.

The main purpose was to establish "how good can it get" and then start on a 12 volt design that will work for me.

Geoff.
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:52

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:52
a higher ambient temp will make a difference for sure
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Reply By: Capt. Wrongway - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 15:33

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 15:33
G'Day Geoff,
Very interesting results.
I also did a fridge/freezer experiment. On Good Friday morning at 0700hrs I plugged my 50ltr Waeco into the standard rear accessory outlet in my 120 Prado, set it to freeze level ( five lights ), and loaded it with various frozen meats. I also loaded two battery boxes, each containing two charged 105ah 6 volt batteries wired in series. I then drove 1.5 hours to my mate's farm. The Waeco was only opened a few times each day and continued to run faultlessly on the Prado battery untill late Monday afternoon when we left. The vehicle was not started at any time untill we were about to leave.
Conclusion : I carted two bloody big battery boxes for nothing! LOL
Regards,
Capt.
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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:53

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:53
Hi Capt'
I think your test was such a winner on the Prado battery because of "loaded it with various frozen meats"
The Waeco didn't need to wrestle the meat down to temperature in fact the meat acted as a Eutectic Plate. Mine needed to chill 20 litres of water from ambient to nearly 0 deg.

Good one,

Geoff.

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Reply By: Morgan VIC - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 15:45

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 15:45
"Another thing it tells me is the level of exaggeration on run times some people report for their Engel’s and Waeco's"
No worse than the exageration of how long people claim their auxilliary batteries have been used or should I say the life of the batteries under use.
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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 15:52

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 15:52
"Another thing it tells me is the level of exaggeration on run times some people report for their Engel’s and Waeco's"

"No worse than the exageration of how long people claim their auxilliary batteries have been used or should I say the life of the batteries under use"

Aren't they the same statement written in a different direction?

Geoff.
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Follow Up By: Morgan VIC - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 15:56

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 15:56
I should have said the age of the battery. You see claims of auxiliary batteries with some unbelievable lifetimes and still working perfectly. If they were using these batteries and knowing in general the method these auxiliary batteries are been charged, it is impossible to get some of the lifetime age been claimed.
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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:01

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:01
Gotcha, you are so right on that one!!

Geoff.
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:46

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:46
Yes and now some are buying AGM batteries under the illusion of them lasting 10 years under cycling conditions.....If that was true I'd buy one.
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Follow Up By: Aandy(WA) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:06

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:06
Yes Mad dog .... they are ALL lead acid batteries and they ALL last best if kept fully charged and they ALL suffer damage at being discharged. Deep cycle batteries only differ in that they don't suffer the damage as quickly as cranking batteries.
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Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Saturday, Apr 22, 2006 at 03:51

Saturday, Apr 22, 2006 at 03:51
Running two 80a/h Delkor Deep Cycle batteries wired in parallel, 4 1/2 years old, running fridge & lights continiously from day one.

Recently tested to evaluate their expected life and found them to register ~220 mins rc and ~188 mins rc, which is still a hell of a lot higher than a brand new Exide Extreme :-)
New AGM DC now put off till next year!
" quality pays for it's self "
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Reply By: Trev88 - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:01

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:01
Hi Geoff

When I started 4WDing i saw the waco guy at the Adelaide 4WD show and I also spoke to the Engle Guy at that time I did not wantto put in a duel battery system and so opted for a thumper (45AH i think) on my first few trips the thumper would not last the night without going flat. (driving around 4 to 5 hours per day to recharge the Thumper) I ended up with the Engle 40l as when I asked the various retailers which unit they saw come back more regularly for service repairs thay all said waceo.

On my last trip I took an esky for the drinks so I was not going to the fridge all the time and so could run it warmer. Hey presto the thumper for the fridge now lasted arounf 16 hours and still had power.

My conclusion is that I will now take an esky for drinks and leave the food in the fridge and not run it so cold.

So now I'm thinking what if any is the advantage of runing the engle through an inverter would I be looking at a longer run time or shorter

Yes I am electrically chanllenged but still interested in your or anyone elses response.

Thanks

Trev
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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:07

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:07
Hi Trev,
Through an inverter with the same load profile, ie, opened and closed the same amount of times and the same amount of food swapped.
I'd expect a shorter run time than connecting the fridge directly to your thumper.

Reason?
The inverter has losses that steal some of your available power from the thumper.

Geoff.
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Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:35

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:35
Considering that the Waeco is 350% bigger than the Engel, I'm amazed that their AmpHour comsumption is so close.

Mike
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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:45

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:45
Yes, I was too Mike.
Considering the Waeco dropped 20 litres of water from room temperature to nearly freezing during the test period while the Engel wrestled with 10 litres makes it more interesting.
I guess it comes down to their age differences and different compressor types. The Engel is over 20 years old and the Waeco probably less than 2 years.
I'd never bothered to find out exactly how much current the Engel _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx before, I was very surprised at the nearly 100 watt loading.

Geoff.
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:52

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:52
"Fich" on....

It is a reflection of the energy needed to reduce the two containes of water in the Waeco vs the one in the Engel.

To be truly representitive it should be repeated with like-for-like cooling loads, ie one in each, then two in each, and so on, using identical containers, as surface area will also affect the rate of cooling "absorbtion" of the water in the containers.

A check of the temperature of the water would also complete the picture, ie the fridge may be down to temp again, but the water may still be warm.

"Fich" off... ;-)

(aplogies ROTFLMAO, couldn't help myself!)
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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:55

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 16:55
Sounds like an opening for you to improve on what I did.
Don't forget to report back,

Geoff.
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:18

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:18
Geoff M,

Not having a go at you at all. Absolutely no offence intended.

This is what the fich on/off/laughing was all about. How to turn staight questions into bent answers....
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:28

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:28
Cont: (wrong button &*^%%!!!)

The scientific method eludes some people (specifically the other thread).

In real terms the effects of the amount of insulation would have a major effect on the power consumption.

I would still love to see someone use the "waste" energy of a fridge by using the condensor to heat water, giving you warm water to wash your hands/dishes with, and a more efficient cooling of the refrigerant.

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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 19:31

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 19:31
Now I get the joke, yes having some basis in science shouldn't kill the sales pitch.
My reason behind the test was I've been 4wd ing for over 20 years with the Engel and have buggered a veritable lead mine of batteries.
I finally said enough is enough, I've got the background, the skills and the access to anything equipment wise needed to find out once and for all what is really going on!!
So I did,

Sort of like co-generation for campers hey? Waste heat from the fridge turned into something useful? Hmm, sort of recapturing the batteries electrical energy as heat energy!!!

Geoff.
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Follow Up By: wheeleybin - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 21:26

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 21:26
Geoff
Co Generation now your talking the right language bring efficiency into it and your on the right track.

If an 80W panel produces 4.7 A in reasonable conditions and gets an average of 6 hours per day at that efficiency rate that is 28AH + per day and a compressor fridge cycling at 1 to 1 which is what they are supposed to achieve at average 4A that is 4A x 12H= 48AH how do you make up the short fall to mainain your battery.
Oh Bugger Ive got a flat battery.

The BD35 is 48W and the BD50 is 78W but that is only the start of the equasion which breaks down into the efficiency compnent that has many variables.

I have a simple solar calculation with any compressor fridge start at a minimum of 60W if you travel every day and supplement your charging from the car then add10W of solar for every day you are stationary until you get between 120W and 160W and that should just about cover an efficient fridge completely running as a fridge.
Run it as a freezer and with a lot of fridges with average insulation will run 24/7 and will not cycle at all in ambients above 35oC and then you may double the solar requirement.

This is proven with the Trailblaza that has verygood insulation and uses the BD35 and is very efficient.

I would love to bulk charge with a DC Gen and absorb and float with solar to get the best possible efficiency from all products.

Wheeley

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Reply By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:06

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:06
Very interesting numbers Geoff.

So across 3 days (less an hour) they consumed an average of 137Ah each or almost 2KWh - that's a lot of power. It also means we would need to replace 46Ah per day which means running a gen with an 8A DC output for 6 hours per day - probably longer. Even with something like a smart (and expensive) 15A charger the gen would still be required for 3 hours per day - for most of Oz during most of the year the fridges would probably consume more power than your tests. With an 80W solar panel you would need 7 or 8 hours of full output every day.

I'm staying with my 3 way on gas thanks.

Good info Geoff - thanks.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:48

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:48
Sorry Mike, but I think you have made a mistake. 137 AH total over the three days, not 137 x the number of hour in 3 days.

125 AH over 71 hrs (total)= 1.76 amps average continuous from the battery.
1.76A x ~1.5 (charging losses) x 24 hrs = 60 ah/day needed to maintain battery

150 Ah over 71 hrs = 2.11 amps average continuous from the battery.
2.11Ax ~1.5 (charging losses) x 24 hrs = 75 ah/day needed to maintain battery

80 watt solar panel at ~75% average efficiency (clouds, safety margin, not at peak efficiency all the time) = 4.5 amps at 14 volts (approx 60 watts)

Ideally 2-3 solar panels 6-9 hrs per day.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 18:18

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 18:18
You are absolutely correct Gary - thanks for the correction. I thought it was lot of power! :)

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:38

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:38
Hi Mike,
What Gary said, the Ahr values are integrated for the duration of the run.

Right now the Engel is at nearly 210 Ahrs and the Waeco is at 250 Ahrs.

The whole show is still an eye opener no matter what the numbers.

Geoff.
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Reply By: Bros 1 - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:16

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:16
Geoff M,
Very interesting. What i want to know is about the power supply. I want a 12V DC power supply to test run my Chescold. I don't know anything at all about this sort of gear. I guess 10 Amp would be enough and if so, does this power supply run off 240V. I hope you can understand my requirement. (12V DC- 10Amp off 240V)
Cheers,
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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 19:25

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 19:25
Hello Bros,

I used 2 of the PSA1210 power supplies from here in my test GME Power Supplies

For the simple reason they where available to me and where big enough to run the fridges. As it turned out, just big enough to run them!!

Geoff.
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Reply By: Willem - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:52

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:52
Geez Geoff

Whatever happened to the canvas waterbag and the foam esky?...LOLOL

I just turn me Engel on and it runs and keeps things cold. I turn it off at night and start it up in the morning again. But I seldom sit around swatting flies at a camp site and move every couple of days. Have never flattened the battery

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 19:39

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 19:39
Hey Willem, how goes the packing?

Yes, what did happen to the canvas water bag and foam esky!! Those where the days!!

Yep, your idea is great and works for you. Real world experience and knowledge of your gear, no substitute for it.
I was sick of stuffing batteres whilst camped at say Fraser Island. Sometimes we wouldn't move for 3 days and I wanted to know exactly why the batteries wouldn't last.

Now I know,

Geoff.
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Reply By: Rosco - Qld - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:53

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 17:53
Interesting results Geoff

........... > What it also tells me is those on this forum using solar trickle charging are on the right track. <

I also ran a very unscientific test over Easter . . . not suggesting your's was ;-). We didn't go anywhere out bush, as I'm currently recovering from a stint at the vet's.

Visited some old friends over at one of the Bay islands and just lounged around. I took my 60l Waeco but forgot the 240V power source.

It was left in the vehicle with an aux batt and 80W roof mounted panel. Fridge not opened very often and set on 3 lights and vehicle not started very often but well sited in full sunlight each day. Net result was the panel couldn't keep up and I ended each morning with 10V in the batt.

So what did I learn .... there's something wrong with my setup which requires investigation, as I believe in these circumstances it should run the fridge and top up the batt during daylight hours.

Cheers

Rosco
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Follow Up By: Jimbo - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 19:14

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 19:14
Rosco old boy,

"Fridge not opened very often"

You must have had your beer elswhere then LOL

"but well sited in full sunlight each day". Herein lies the rub. If the car was in full sunlight all day the fridge would have been in an extremely hot environment and probably cycling 100% if the time. Under these circumstances the panel will not keep up.

I manage to run my 80L fridge off a 64 watt panel reasonably well by keeping the car in the shade and the panel out in the sun on a lead. In ideal conditions, sunny and under 30 C it keeps up. If there's a lot of overcast weather, or gets very hot I need to supplement it a little with the car. Overall the panel works fine 80% of the time and I can't justify another.

With it on the roof you're always going to struggle.

How's Valda?

Cheers,

Jim.
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Follow Up By: Jimbo - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 21:14

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 21:14
Forgot to add, my panel is an "amorphous" panel which is overall more efficient than a Polycrystalline (SP?) panel. It is effective in partial shade and doesn't lose output when temps exceed 25 as the Poly Panels do. They are however a lot bigger.

As a rule of thumb a 64 watt amorphous panel will be more versatile and outperform (just) an 80 watt poly panel. It will also be slightly cheaper if you buy right.

Any minute now that clown Ozi (Dilligaf, The Tinker, MartyInNEVic, or any number of his other aliases that have not yet been banned) will come along and try to discredit this. He's a dodgy trader who David constantly bans, but he keeps slipping back with a new alias from time to time.
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Follow Up By: Rosco - Qld - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 08:27

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 08:27
G'day Jim

Valda's doing well, albeit covered in feathers lately. Due no doubt to my sojourn at the vet.

I'll pm you with the details.

Cheers cobber
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Reply By: S&N - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 18:59

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 18:59
GODS....how do you guys afford the pannels?????????? i looked at bit distribution, and the 80w pannels are $820 each!!!!!!!!!! almost worth putting in 5 extra batteries!!!LOL
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 22:26

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 22:26
Did Someone mention 12 volts again???? I cant believe it for what should be a pretty simple thing (plug appliences in and dont flatten your battery) It attracts all sorts of crap
Personally I dont sit still for any longer than a day and have never given 1 iota of thought to amp hours panels generators or whatever - it certainly beats the crap ove3r arguing about something that is perfectly simple 12V
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Reply By: rayjen - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 19:46

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 19:46
Guys: Interesting stuff even for us non-techo types newbies. Opinions gratefully received: would a Waeco 50 litre located in the 4by, with insulation cover, & opened briefly maybe 4 times a day, last for 3 days on dedicated battery without running diesel engine in Pajero? Would an 80 w solar panel be sufficient to trickle feed the battery or would I need 2 panels. Or what would be the ideal rig to ensure sufficient power for the fridge?

We are learning lots. Thanks all! Cheers, RayJen
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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:59

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:59
Hi RayJen,
Glad my humble tests gave you some value.
Great question and extremely difficult to answer. Jimbo's information above is extremely accurate regarding keeping the fridge in the shade and the panel in the sun. Two technologies at totally opposite ends of the solar energy spectrum.
From what Jimbo has stated and with a well setup solar system (I know Jim's is, he put a lot of research into his purchase) you should be able to achieve what you asked.
Now for the million dollar question, when it's opened is that to take things out or to put things in?
Why do I ask,
Taking stuff out really doesn't bother the fridge. Putting stuff in does. I can safely guarantee anything you add will be warmer than your fridge and require it to work toward cooling it down.
Now to actually answer your question, if you pre-chill the food and fridge at home for say 24 hours on 240volts, only remove food whilst camping, keep the fridge in the shade, use a good quality battery of say minimum 100 Ahr and tickle it back up with an 80w panel then all should be grand for the 3 days.

I think and others can correct me if I'm wrong the Waeco 50 litre uses the smaller Danfoss compressor whilst the 80 and 110 litre use the bigger Danfoss compressor.

Trust this makes sense,
Geoff.
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Follow Up By: rayjen - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 21:41

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 21:41
Thanks very much, Geoff. Much appreciated. I have noticed that this energy topic has the highest visitation rate of all the forum questions so (pardon the pun) it's obviously a HOT TOPIC! Cheers, RayJen
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Follow Up By: S&N - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 21:57

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 21:57
geoff, are you saying that the 80 or 110 litre, being larger compressors, will chew more power? or that being the larger compressors, they wont use as much power as they will cool the items quicker?

the reason i ask, is that this has been a question of mine for a while. is it better to go the 50 with a smaller comp? or the 80 with a bigger comp? does the 110 struggle, cooling a larger area with the same comp as the 80? does the increase in capacity from the 50 to the 80 go in direct proportion in relation to the jump in comp size (in other words, do the 50 and 80 cool about the same)?
thanks!
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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 23:21

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 23:21
Hi S&N,
First thing, a bigger compressor has to use more power for the same amount of run time as the smaller compressor. How much more, I've got no idea. The only Waeco I've ever owned and tested is my 110 litre.
I can't answer your question accurately as I have no idea of how you'll use the fridge. Sufficient to say the more you open it and the more "hot" food you add the longer it runs. The longer it runs the more power it uses.
Other thing, I've absolutely no experience with the 50 and 80 litre Waeco's.
Best I can offer is the bigger the fridge the bigger the load and therefore the more power to drive it.
I'm not even entirely clear on my first statement re the compressor sizing in 50, 80 and 110 litre Waceo's hence my request for clarification.

Hope this helps,
Geoff.
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Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 21:38

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 21:38
Well here is my Easter experience.

We camped at Spear Creek in the Flinders from 5pm Thursday to 10am Monday. Our Waeco CF50 was run on three lights fully loaded with food and drinks on the vehicle battery on the way up. In camp it was plugged into 2 ex Gopher Gell Cells 38AH x 6 volts wired in series. Batteries were charged by 40W BP Solarex Panel oriented north at Lattitude + Sun Declination and not adjusted during the day (too lazy!) The panel was plugged into batteries through a Stecca Solsum Regulator.

The fridge was kept in the shade or chucked into the back of the 4by and plugged into the vehicle battery when we went wandering.

When we got back on Tuesday the gell cells were still at 60% but had not been charged at all on the Monday after the overnight run on Sunday night.
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Reply By: Aandy(WA) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:15

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:15
Geoff, I think others have already mentioned this but I was a bit taken aback that you went to so much trouble with "high tech" equipment to create a "scientific" style experiment and then gave the fridges unequal cooling loads!!!! Do it again BUT start the friges from equal temperatures (I suggest room temperature) and give them the same cooling loads. On the other hand you could get a gas fridge and your worries will be over - 2 weeks from a small gas bottle and when it runs out just connect another one lol.
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Follow Up By: RedGibber - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:42

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:42
Aandy,

The unequal cooling loads were probly because of the 29l vs 110l fridges!!

I think the test done was a good one!!

Cheers
RedGibber
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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:43

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 20:43
Hi Aandy,
The whole thing was never about giving them equal loads nor about directly comparing two entirely different fridges.
All I really wanted was some base line numbers to design a battery and charging system that would work for me.
Along the way I thought I'd share my results with others hoping it may be of some benefit.
The other thing, the Waeco has enough room for two Woolies 10 litre water containers and the Engel can only swallow one!

Thanks for the very valid comment,

Geoff.
Geoff,
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Grey hair is hereditary, you get it from children. Baldness is caused by watching the Wallabies.

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Reply By: T.C - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 22:02

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 22:02
So which fridge should i buy, I am currnetly looking at a Waeco 50ltre or an Engel 40litre.
Waeco is in front on price.........but Engel keeps rearing it's head in all forums !

I will just have a 130 Amp hr batery in the back of a Hilux.

Thanks, Tony
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 22:39

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 22:39
If both fridges were the same price which would you buy ?

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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 22:48

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 22:48
Hi Tony,
They're both good fridges.
If you can get enough information to calculate which one is the cheapest to run then that's a great guide. What do I mean by cheapest? Lowest power requirements over a given time period, say 24 hours. That means lowest Ahrs over a given period.
As to the 130 Ahr battery, from what I've learned in the last week well, your battery in good condition will power my 110 litre Waeco or my 29 litre Engel for about a day.

Trust this helps,
Geoff.

Geoff,
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Grey hair is hereditary, you get it from children. Baldness is caused by watching the Wallabies.

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Reply By: Bros 1 - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 22:07

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 22:07
Geoff M,
Thanks for the reply bloke. I will have to get on to GME re prices etc.
Cheers,
Bros.
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Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 22:38

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 22:38
This is an informative experiment, but does not reflect the real world.
Before a trip, I always cool my fridge on 240V before loading it. Then I load it with cold (frozen in the freezer section) products.
If going for more than a couple of days, I also charge all my Deep Cycles with the the smart charger to ensure they are fully charged.

Like others, I use as esky for drinks. Fortunately we have a big 'bar' fridge. I put the whole esky in the fridge for a couple of days before we go, then pack it with icy cold drinks and block ice in 3 litre milk bottles. If we stock up with food and drink on the road, we try to only buy stuff that is already cold.

This gives a massive head start and probably extends total battery life by at least a day, probably more.

Using this method I get excellent time out of my batteries. Despite this, I charge every couple of days anyway to look after the batteries better.

So while the test is interesting and informative, it probably does not tell us a real lot about real life power consumption. What it does tell us, is how important it is to start off with a cold fridge, cold contents and charged batteries.
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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 23:02

Wednesday, Apr 19, 2006 at 23:02
"Before a trip, I always cool my fridge on 240V before loading it." So do I !!

"Then I load it with cold (frozen in the freezer section) products" Yep, smart move, me too !!

"I also charge all my Deep Cycles with the the smart charger to ensure they are fully charged" Can't argue with that, don't know anyone who doesn't !!

"What it does tell us, is how important it is to start off with a cold fridge, cold contents and charged batteries" Never disputed that !!

Funny thing, I offered some real world information to support your arguments.

Geoff.
Geoff,
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Grey hair is hereditary, you get it from children. Baldness is caused by watching the Wallabies.

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Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 08:42

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 08:42
People usually don't realise how much energy it takes to freeze water. It will take five TIMES as much energy to freeze a litre of water at 20 degrees, as it will to cool a litre of water from 20 degrees to juts above zero degrees.

That's why an ice block keeps an esky cool much longer than cold water - it can absorb this huge amount of energy. Melting one litre of ice absorbs as much energy as heating eighty litres water from zero degrees to one degree !

Mike
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Reply By: Sam from Weipa Auto Electrics - Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 11:48

Thursday, Apr 20, 2006 at 11:48
All very interesting points I have a trojan 115ahr battery running a 60litre waeco and just did a 3 day camp down at the archer and had no dramas running the fridge and I had just drinks in it altough I got everything cold before I left so it was the perfect tempature. I did move a fair bit while I was down there so that would have charged the battery.
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Reply By: drivesafe - Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 05:37

Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 05:37
Hi Geoff M, just some questions on your set up you had when you went to Fraser.

What sort of battery capacity did you have and when you went there did you drive straight through from Newcastle.

Just trying to workout why you would stuff you batteries?
Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Geoff M (Newcastle, NSW) - Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 08:54

Friday, Apr 21, 2006 at 08:54
Hi drivesafe,
Pretty simple really, I believed what I was told about the current draw and running characteristics of the Engel in particular as I've had it the longest. Rather than actually finding out what it took to run it. Also the Engel lacks a low voltage cutout.

Drawing batteries down below their recommended minimum discharge voltage is guaranteed to kill them. That’s what I meant. Now I’m working on being a little more scientific in my approach.

Geoff.

Geoff,
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