Boat Query

Submitted: Tuesday, Apr 25, 2006 at 23:50
ThreadID: 33245 Views:3601 Replies:9 FollowUps:19
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I've recently inherited a boat (its a half cabin Rover) which had been purchased by my parents as a renovating project. Unfortunately my father died recently, and so I've decided to do it up (basically repaint, new motor, and lots of bits and pieces). I'm wondering if anyone knows of any books/magazines that might be helpful. I've tried numerous net searches on 'Rover half cabin' and come up with nothing every time..it's getting frustrating! I'm sure that there is not one simple resource, but if anyone knows anywhere I can go to see what I can do with the boat (ie, how to paint it, fixing fibreglass, installing 12 volt systems), I'd be forever greatful!!
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Reply By: fisho64 - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 00:06

Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 00:06
Never heard of the boat, but if it is less than about 20 years, try "trailer boat fisherman" magazine. But if it is that bad that you need to do all those things, then maybe sentimental value is the only reason it is worthwhile doing? Cos after doing up an old boat, youve still only got an old boat that looks flash.
I'll be the devils advocate and compare an old boat that doesnt have genuine classic status with a Holden Gemini or mazda 323. You can restore it and use it, but it is still an old gemini.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 22:08

Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 22:08
We used to say that about Triumph Heralds & Mini Mokes!
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Thursday, Apr 27, 2006 at 22:57

Thursday, Apr 27, 2006 at 22:57
Why sell any car you own then? Why not maintain it in perfect order and store it in the shed for eternity? It is a great theory.
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Reply By: Turbo - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 00:50

Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 00:50
Howdy circle: rover is an old boat but im sure there are still plenty about.i would try looking for a boating or fishing club on the net.im sure someone there would be able to put you in the right direction.try ebay, i just had good luck getting a copy of an obscure magazine by posting on the 'want it now' section. or look for one of the larger marine shops where you live im 100% sure they will help as they love to hear the words hi im restoring an old boat. good luck & hope you catch plenty of fish in your dads boat. dave.
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Reply By: age - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 06:38

Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 06:38
Circle

Have a look at this web site Site Link

Has some excellent boat restoration projects on it with heaps of advice, photos, pitfalls etc - couple of Australian projects as well. Aus guys who have completed some of these projects also lurk on the Ausfish website, plenty of others restoring there as well - www.ausfish.com.au. I am sure they will give you all the advice you need

Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 08:03

Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 08:03
Circle,

Three boat/fishing sites that could probably help.
Fishnet
Sportfish
Ausfish.
Ausfish loading times are slower than the other two but all have heaps of info available. One of the site members not long ago did a complete strip out of floor and stringers then replacement and reglassing. All documented with commentary and photographs.
There are many members on these sites who have done nothing but lived & breathed boats for forty years or more. I would be very surprised if you did not get information, advice and support from these sites.
Ian
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Reply By: Member No 1- Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 09:33

Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 09:33
if your not a keen fisher get rid of it....boats are worse than houses...they just love soaking up money...........

also and as someone above has said, its an old boat. boats are not really a collectable and that means its not worth putting a new motor on it

being old.....fibreglass boats are not impervious to wood rot...especially at the transom where water collects when left high and dry in the driveway.....usually the front is raised to let water drain to the back...Fresh water from rain or washing down with fresh, gets in (under the flooring) thru minute cracks in the glass and rots out the support timbers
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 22:11

Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 22:11
Actually the water gets in where the drain holes were poorly sealed & the outboard motor lower mounting bolt holes.
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 23:58

Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 23:58
Also the older resins (pre vinylester) were porous, allowing salt water into the laminate. This reacted with acids? and creates pressure bubbles inside the laminate, causing osmosis. This is only obvious when it is just about completely puckeroo. Not so common on a trailer boat, but can occur where there is water sitting inside.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Apr 27, 2006 at 09:34

Thursday, Apr 27, 2006 at 09:34
QUOTE:This is only obvious when it is just about completely puckeroo

This is only scaremongering, you will never see osmosis in a trailer boat!!
Internal osmosis? ... what a crock of bleep
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Thursday, Apr 27, 2006 at 23:07

Thursday, Apr 27, 2006 at 23:07
Before you get nasty why dont you look up what osmosis means. Are you disputing that older resins/gelcoats have been found to be porous? Osmosis is usually encountered in an older boat sitting in salt water for a long period. Why could it not be found in a trailler boat left sitting for a matter of years with salt water sitting internally? Not a common occurence granted, but not an impossibility either.

To the inexperienced eye a tiny bubble is not obvious as being a sign of a serious problem is it?
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Apr 27, 2006 at 23:47

Thursday, Apr 27, 2006 at 23:47
I don't believe I was being nasty, but I get sick of people bringing up osmosis as if boats will disintegrate & sink when it is a relatively rare & usually little more than a cosmetic problem. If I offended you then I apologise.
I base my observations on 24 years in the marine industry, originally as a boatbuilder & for the last 13 years as a yacht broker. In this time I have never seen or heard of any osmotic reaction in a trailer boat, the major problems in trailer boats are rotting in the transom core material & in the sub floor under the cockpit sole. Most vessels that suffer osmosis are boats that have been built in Asia in very humid conditions, which traps moisture in the laminate. I agree that gelcoat is quite porous & contributes to the problem. Polyester GRP vessels coated with an epoxy layer over the original gelcoat will be protected. Modern vessels built with epoxy resin will never suffer the problem. Your mention of a 'tiny bubble' could mean many things, as in "all that glitters is not gold" .... "all that bubbles is not osmosis" There are other things that can cause bubbling, including power stirring of the resin causing aeration.

I refer you to an extract from one of my manuals:

By definition OSMOSIS is a permeation through a membrane. This is a natural phenomenon created by pressure trying to equalise the concentrations of
two solutions through the membrane. In the case of fibreglass boats the cause begins at the time of manufacture. Glass fibre stacked or stored in an
environment that does not have a humidity controlled facility runs the risk of transferring moisture contaminated strands into the moulded matrix. When
these strands become encapsulated within the glass structure the moisture settles into convenient voids created by the random distribution of the mass.
(See fig. 1.) To understand this process observe what happens when warm breath meets a cold glass mirror. As the condensed vapour mixes with
residuals of the polyester it produces a pocket of concentrated solution.
At this stage Osmotic pressure is created. Within the moulded matrix there are pockets of very concentrated solutions whilst on the outside, the
seawater (also a solution) is trying to equalise this force. Where these moisture “cells” are close to the outer surface or able to “wick” down glass
strands to reach the gelcoat layers the reaction starts to take place. (See fig. 2). Because the concentration of the solution is greater within the hull, the
direction of pressure is outwards into the seawater. When the pressure exceeds the containment by the membrane (gelcoat), the bubble bursts and
equalises the force. (See fig. 3). At this point the reaction is over. However the seawater is now able to permeate the mass in the same “wicking”
action and could theoretically find other “sites” for further osmosis cultivation. The potential for this is of minor concern and should be put into
perspective. The Polyester resin crosslinking process is waterproof and structurally sound. This mass (surrounding the reinforcing fibres) ensures the
integrity of the structure … In other words the “matrix” of resin and reinforcing cannot be compromised further. The waterproofing property and
adhesion to the glass reinforcing fibres is not compromised and therefore does not represent a structural weakness. In a nutshell osmosis is a cosmetic
condition.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 00:12

Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 00:12
>>> if your not a keen fisher get rid of it....boats are worse than houses...they just love soaking up money...........

You are so correct there #1.... worse than women AND houses.
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 01:06

Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 01:06
"but I get sick of people bringing up osmosis as if boats will disintegrate & sink when it is a relatively rare & usually little more than a cosmetic problem."

being a yacht broker
1/ you wouldnt see that many trailer boats
2/ you would rarely be dealing with a derelict boat sitting on a trailer for a long long period of time, nor would you examine it in great detail
3/ it is in your best interest to downplay the seriousness of osmosis as you dont buy boats, you only sell them. Just as a a car salesman might downplay a noisy gearbox or Real Estate salesman with termites or sunken footings.

Having been a commercial fisherman for many years and now Marine Engineer, I am on the other side of the equasion, of being offered vessels for sale in this condition. While it is true that a bubble does not necessarily signify serious structural problems, anyone purchasing a commercial vessel with bubbles in the gelcoat would be a mug, as it is likely to be picked up in survey and fail. Sure this isnt a commercial vessel but before spending good money on it he should be aware of these things.

what a crock of bleep
Im not offended, but it isnt the way you would talk to someone face to face is it.
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 07:54

Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 07:54
"worse than women"....geezus truckster, you looking for an argument
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 09:39

Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 09:39
QUOTE:
"being a yacht broker
1/ you wouldnt see that many trailer boats
2/ you would rarely be dealing with a derelict boat sitting on a trailer for a long long period of time, nor would you examine it in great detail
3/ it is in your best interest to downplay the seriousness of osmosis as you dont buy boats"

Answers:
1/ As one of the biggest network brokerages in Austrailia, we handle quiet a few trailer boats, the bigger percentage being trailer sailer sailers, but some powerboats.
2/ True .... but we see quite a few 'derelict' boats that have sat for years neglected on moorings. You are the expert is that worse?
3/ True again ..... we have to downplay it & put it in it's proper perspective because of scaremongering. If nobody bought boats with bubbles, there wouldn't be many older boats left. Yes these boats have also been professionally surveyed.

Yes, I would speak like that face to face, but it would seem less offensive than reading it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought marine engineers were more qualified to speak on the machinery side of things.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:30

Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:30
Im only interested in facts Mr 1.. ;)
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:44

Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:44
thats where most commercial surveyors come from.
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 12:10

Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 12:10
fact: my swmbo can spend more $$$ than any boat could suck up
Myth they dont know how to use a credit card....how come they always have more than 1
Fact: They never had to learn how to spend money...its a heridity thing..they all have the same gene
Myth: They always shop for lowest priced items....gold and diamonds arent low priced items

do you need more truckie
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 12:19

Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 12:19
I agree. I think I could add about 2000 to that without even blinking lol!
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Saturday, Apr 29, 2006 at 00:07

Saturday, Apr 29, 2006 at 00:07
QUOTE
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought marine engineers were more qualified to speak on the machinery side of things.
UNQUOTE
OK I will!
Marine Engineers study all aspects of boat construction and maintenance, including and especially structural integrity, though most, like myself have also come thru as qualified tradesmen and from other parts of the marine industry, including construction.

The various study modules cover Applied Mathematics, Ship Construction, Theory and Application of Engineering (Motor), Engineering Mathematics, Electrical Theory and Ship Stability. There are also Advanced Firefighting, Proficiency in Survival Craft, and PSSR (Personal Safety and Social Responsibilities, as much fun as it sounds!) A Traineeship or previous relevant Trade Certificate is also required.

Out of curiousity, what aspects of marine construction, maintenance, surveying or valuation are required before operating as a boat salesman?
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Saturday, Apr 29, 2006 at 09:13

Saturday, Apr 29, 2006 at 09:13
over to shaker
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Apr 29, 2006 at 10:24

Saturday, Apr 29, 2006 at 10:24
If you had read my post above you would have worked out I had 11 years of boatbuilding, & quite obviously in my profession valuations are an important aspect. I am also qualified to provide major marine insurance companies with both valuations & condition reports. There is certainly a lot more to the running of a successful brokerage than being simply a 'salesman'.
I might add that many times we discourage people from buying particular vessels, due to them being unsuitable for their requirements.
Also, don't think for a moment that I would belittle your own qualifications, I have nothing but respect for anybody that puts in both the study & sea time required to attain a Marine Engineers Certificate, but even though you have a broad knowledge of construction, I assume mainly in larger vessels (ships?), & I am sure that they do still have Shipwrights.
This one dispute that will never be resolved & is one of the perennial arguments in the marine industry.

I have enjoyed this discussion.
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Reply By: Ross - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 09:57

Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 09:57
Give it up! The fact that you need info on fibreglassing, electrics etc indicates that the boat would just be a hole in the water in which to pour money.

Trade it or dump it and buy something that goes.

Ross
AnswerID: 169037

Reply By: bigcol - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 20:16

Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 20:16
BOAT = Bring Over Another Thousand.

They can be expensive things when not correctly maintained. But good fun anyway

The Rover could be around 30 years old.

From memory Cruise Craft Boats in Brisbanes bayside were the ones responsible for making Rovers.
Don't quote me on that though. It's been a very long time

AnswerID: 169172

Reply By: Circle - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 22:59

Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 22:59
Fantastic...thanks all for your comments - they are really helpful. The general consensus is that there is a risk in throwing good money into this project...but given the sentimental value, and that I've half stripped the boat, I've got to keep going! Besides, I've thrown enough into my fourby, it's probably time for a change!

Thanks again for the advice!

Cheers
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Reply By: fisho64 - Thursday, Apr 27, 2006 at 00:10

Thursday, Apr 27, 2006 at 00:10
"and that I've half stripped the boat, I've got to keep going!"

oh well your 1/4 of 1 per cent there already then - except for the spending money part!
Best start saving for that outboard, a 4 stroke is expensive and a good 2 stroke (glorified lawnmower) costs about 20 lawnmowers!
Sorry to be a downer, having a lot to do with boats means I have seen the good and bad of old fibreglass. As mentioned before, if the transom is soft, itll need replacing, and that is a job for an expert. If the whole lot falls off at sea, you might end up craybait. More than a hundred meters out to sea, sentimental value is no substitute for seaworthyness
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:43

Friday, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:43
>>> Best start saving for that outboard, a 4 stroke is expensive and a good 2 stroke (glorified lawnmower) costs about 20 lawnmowers!

No kidding, makes me shudder when I priced a 12ft tinny with a 9 few mths back at 4b show.. I actually laughed in the blokes face.. he wasnt impressed
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