LPG and govt tax increases.

Submitted: Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 08:52
ThreadID: 33368 Views:3272 Replies:9 FollowUps:21
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Read a few bits and pieces here about the possibility of LPG being taxed at a significantly higher rate soon.

Does anyone have any actual concrete information on this? If so, by how much will it increase and when?

If this is true, surely in the current climate it would cause a riot especially as here in WA the state govt were subsidising the cost of installation to the tune of $500. Owning a dual fuel 100 series Cruiser myself, I for one would be well and truly fuming about being sold up the river. Taxi's, couriers and installers may also have a bit to say on the matter too.

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Reply By: Brew69(SA) - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:03

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:03
The talk has been around for about 5 years now, with dates even being mentioned. Its all crap IMO. How can you go past 45c at the pump? Imagine like you say the Taxi's and couriers having to double their costs.(it just won't happen, and if it did your above mentioned riot would be a reality) Take with a pinch of salt any replies of so called people in the know, as anyone commenting will only be guessing, like they have been for the last 5 years.
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Reply By: awill4x4 - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:07

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:07
V8 diesel, don't panic. There's a lot of bulltish sprouted around the net regarding LPG being taxed into extinction usually by the one eyed die hard diesel users. Here's a link to the official government policy regarding LPG and future tariffs.
LPG future tariffs
In a nutshell, tariffs don't start till 2011 where it will be 2.5 cents/litre it then goes up for another 4 years at 2.5 cents a litre where it is capped at 12.5 cents/litre.
Still, way below those of petrol and diesel.
Regards Andrew.
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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:10

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:10
Thanks for the link mate...this should put an end to all the bulltish being spread.
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Follow Up By: awill4x4 - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:21

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:21
Yeah Brew, I've actually bookmarked this page especially for the doom and gloom anti LPG (usually diesel diehards) who have an agenda about LPG.
At 42 cents/litre yesterday (here in Melbourne) and still falling from its summer peak of mid to high 50's we're the ones who are laughing.
Regards Andrew.
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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Monday, May 01, 2006 at 17:58

Monday, May 01, 2006 at 17:58
39.7 today :)
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Follow Up By: Fusion - Monday, May 01, 2006 at 20:02

Monday, May 01, 2006 at 20:02
Anyone know why LPG is so much more expensive in Qld? Cheapest here seems to be about 55c at the moment. But it's the reverse with Petrol/Diesel as we have a 9-10c State rebate going on.

Aaron.
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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Monday, May 01, 2006 at 20:07

Monday, May 01, 2006 at 20:07
Was in the high 50's and even the high 60's during summer here but has eased the last month or so. No idea why QLD has not dropped too.
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Reply By: Rock Crawler - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:08

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:08
Actually brew , its more like 15 years ago when the supposed Contract on gas was finnished and they were goint to tax it to the moon . Every 2 years the same story does the rounds
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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:11

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:11
I stand corrected mate :)
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Reply By: Patrolman Pat - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:20

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:20
So it's not going to increase because the government have said so. Remember the No GST thing a few years back.

Riots in the street over the increase, these would be the same riots we where to have if petrol ever hit $1 a litre.

Nice revenue earner for the feds if they increase the levy on LPG expect it to be a $1 a litre soon but no one will hear your complaints because the rest of us will be complaining even louderat the $2 a liter for petrol/diesel.
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Follow Up By: awill4x4 - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:41

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:41
Let me guess, Patrolman Pat, you're another diesel user. You've been given a website with current government policy. Just how much more info do you want? You are dealing with hypotheticals I'm dealing with facts.
LPG prices are acually falling as the northern hemisphere comes out of its winter high usage. If you want the FACTS, not a theory sprouted around by those with a little information and the inclination "not" to find out what is correct. Have a look at
pricing facts
Also have a look at LPG pricing trends about Propane and Butane prices in $ per tonne over the last 6 years or so.
Every summer here, the doom and gloom merchants come out in their droves as the prices rise due to increased Northern Hemisphere usage but even at summer highs we are still waaaaaaay in front. I was laughed at earlier in the summer when I said the prices would fall from the high 50's. I said it would get back down to low 40's but I wasn't sure if we would see 30's again, well, we're nearly back down to the 30's now. (if you add the 4 cents/litre discount we're already there)
Regards Andrew.
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Reply By: Bilbo - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:55

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 09:55
Whilst I do love my diesel donks, let's look at a scenario.

First assumption of this scenario - you can always tell when a politician is lying 'cos you can see his lips moving'.

Secondly - The price of fuel - diesel or petrol is never gonna get back to 80 cents a litre. It's gonna carry on going up. Hence the public, transport companies, tourist ventures and every other bugghar is gonna scream "blue murder" if this carries on, due to inflation. Plus, Australia is a country that depends heavily on private transport, particularly the "outer states" like W.A. So the pollies will have to do something like,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,reduce the price, like,,,,,,,,,,,reduce the excise duty on petrol and diesel.

So where better to pick up that same "lost excise revenue" than start taxing LPG??

Just a thought.

Bilbo
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Follow Up By: awill4x4 - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 10:16

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 10:16
Bilbo, on current diesel/petrol pricing we are actually very low on pricing compared to most of the rest of the world. Our tariffs are way lower than all of Europe and especially those of Britain. Governments have a policy of encouraging alternative fuels and LPG and Methanol/Ethanol fall into this bracket so the proposed tariffs are the same between the two.
The doomsayers have been saying that LPG will be taxed out of existence for over 6 years now, it ain't happened yet. I know that tariffs are coming but going on current information supplied (not hypotheticals) I'm quite confident there's no problem for the LPG industry.
I've saved literally thousands of dollars over the last 180,000 kms I've travelled on LPG, way more than the economies of diesel could provide.
I'd like more power, but I'll put up with my GQ slug as it's cheaper to run than my wife's Magna.
Regards Andrew.
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Follow Up By: arthurking83 - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 10:45

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 10:45
awill4x4 said:
"...I'd like more power, but I'll put up with my GQ slug as it's cheaper to run than my wife's Magna"....

You'd you manage that?? :o

My Rodeo V6 uses usually ends up costing more /km than my wifes Saab Turbo on a hwy run! (like Melb-Canberra)

I average about 6km/l in the Rodeo and the Saab does about 12km/l...plus the exxxxtra power of the Saab!!!

Around town there's no comparison...LPG is cheaper by a huge margin!
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Follow Up By: awill4x4 - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 14:28

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 14:28
Arthurking83, my wifes Magna V6 probably averages around 8-9 litres per 100kms with average suburban driving which at about $1.35 per litre = $10.80 to $12.15.
My GQ efi auto in similar driving averages 24 litres per 100kms and at yesterdays price of 42 cents per litre (not including the 4 cent shopper docket discount) this comes to $10.08.
Your right about around town prices, in the country LPG is a lot dearer but 90 plus percent of my driving is around town and my GQ is my daily driver.
I considered getting a small runabout for day to day driving but with the initial purchase price, registration X 2, insurance X 2 and day to day maintenance I'm better off using the GQ.
Regards Andrew.
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Follow Up By: cloughie - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 17:43

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 17:43
Hi.Have myGQ EFI booked in for conversion next week. Have heard pros and cons about this motor being coverted but I see plenty of them. Any tips to mention to installers to ensure trouble free motoring.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 22:45

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 22:45
Spend $1000 and get the head done now before it dies
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Follow Up By: awill4x4 - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 23:04

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 23:04
Bruce, most of head problems I've ever heard of have been the carby TB42's I've never heard of the efi ones with the same problem. (touch wood)
Now, if it was a ZD30 that's a different kettle of fish ;-)
Regards Andrew.
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Reply By: V8Diesel - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 10:13

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 10:13
Very interesting stuff. Thanks for the replies.

I think there would be a raft of economy crippling blockades and protests here if prices of LPG doubled overnight simply due to an increase in federal tax. It would be an entirely different scenario compared to the general 'unavoidable' (hmmmmmm) world wide rises in fuel costs determined by external influences such as international oil prices and political unstability in the key oil producing nations. With the hyper sensitvity of the developed world's population in regards to fuel price increases, it would surely be political suicide.

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Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 23:13

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 23:13
V8 Diesel,

There's gonna be "a raft of economy crippling blockades and protests here if prices of diesel doubles in the next 6 months!!"

Can't run a semi on diesel and this country runs on semis. Can't run a diesel or diesel/electric Haulpak on gas and this country runs on mining.

Of course they're gonna tax LPG. Why cripple a country's economy for the sake of a few taxi drivers and people that don't pay excise taxes like the rest of us.

Bilbo
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Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 23:15

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 23:15
Whoops!

The above should read:-

V8 Diesel,

There's gonna be "a raft of economy crippling blockades and protests here if prices of diesel doubles in the next 6 months!!"

Can't run a semi on GAS and this country runs on semis. Can't run a diesel or diesel/electric Haulpak on gas and this country runs on mining.

Of course they're gonna tax LPG. Why cripple a country's economy for the sake of a few taxi drivers and people that don't pay excise taxes like the rest of us.

Bilbo
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Monday, May 01, 2006 at 00:15

Monday, May 01, 2006 at 00:15
Agree about diesel being the country's lifeblood and all, but I don't think the gov't is going to try and subsidise diesel by increasing taxes on LPG. If you wacked a $10 per litre levy on LPG it wouldn't go even close to making up for diesel. I'd say the WA Goldfields would use more diesel in a year than the whole of Australia's autogas consumption. From the above posts, it appears the govt position is quite clear on the matter anyway. Either way, I'll wait and see what happens in 5 years time. By then I'll be driving a nice new common rail diesel V8 Toyota getting 9l/100km's with a bit of luck anyway.

For the record, I'm no LPG advocate, just happen to have bought a 4x4 fitted with LPG as it was the best option for what I want to do and the kind of performance I want from a vehicle. To be honest, it is much much better than I thought it would be. LPG has come a long way since even a decade ago.
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Reply By: Member - ROTORD - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 17:13

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 17:13
But haven't you already lost the fight ?

Treasurer Keating discovered that people were avoiding their social responsibility to pay duty on petrol by going diesel . He put a duty on diesel . I clearly remember him making a statement in a newspaper only a month or two later that he had discovered that people were now avoiding their social responsibilities by using gas . Nothing further was heard . Someone pointed out to Keating that you don't have a political future if every taxi driver in Australia hates your guts . The principle established was ' no duty on gas '

But now the principle is - it's OK to put a duty on gas because it's only small , and a long way off .

Once the principle is accepted that it is OK to charge a duty on gas you have lost the war . Rises in the duty is mere haggling over the price .
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Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 18:16

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 18:16
Like I said, my comments above were only a "theoretical".

But ROTORD has mentioned a very important word - "principle", pollies use it all the time. Which is strange considering they don't have any!

They change their mind like they change thier jocks.

Bilbo

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Reply By: fisho64 - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 18:06

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 18:06
But by not paying excise your not contributing to australias roads, therefore all gas users should have to pull over and let real cars pass.
Better still they should only be allowed to drive on the verge at 40kmh max.
And it should have an additive to make it smell and look (black smoke) like real fuel (diesel!)
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 21:59

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 21:59
Fisho, not as much of a problem as you think. By easliy being able to maintain speed limits up hill and down dale with minimal throttle, I actually spend a third less time on the road than a diesel. With diesel at 1.48c/l (Shell Marmion & Noth Lake) and LPG at 50c, I will retain a significantly higher level of disposable income too.

In light of this, I choose to make my contribution to society in other ways. For example, I get to my destination an hour ahead of the diesel vehicles, so I can get a good four middies in before they arrive. Beer is a heavily taxed resource (like diesel), so as I blow the froth off another 'super', I can rest assured I've contributed to my nations well being and 'done my bit'.

When I hear the distant rattling and the sky darkens with plumes of black hydrocarbons, I know it's time to wander back out the front and rejoin the convoy;-)
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 22:41

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 22:41
shouldnt your handle be V8Petrol or V8LPG?
Or are you sneaking around under false pretences!!
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Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 23:07

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 23:07
ANOTHER valid point, Fisho!

;)

Bilbo
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 23:56

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 23:56
No, not dribbling sh*t lads (well.....at least on the name thing;-)). Owned a 75 series Cruiser with Brunswick 6.5 conversion, Detroit Locker, long range belly tank, OME suspension, BFG M/T's etc right up until last week but it had to go. (sniffle sniffle):-(((((

Also own (and still do) a Toyota Landcruiser FZJ105 GXL with all the whistles and bells that runs a 115l LPG tank and 95l's of petrol.

After much research I ended up buying the petrol because the 1HZJ diesels are just too slow for my liking and in all truth not that much better on juice after doing 2 x 2,000km side by side comparisons. I spend a lot of time driving and life's too short to be constantly bleep off by driving a slug (hence the 6.5). They are also difficult to find in GXL spec for a reasonable price and in good nick. Another downside of the NA diesel is the weak R151 Prado gearbox Toyota chose to fit for some unfathomable reason and inherent clutch problems they experience.

On the other hand, the 4.5l 1FZ-FE produces more torque at idle than the NA diesel at full song and also has the much heavier H151 transmission. On gas it has heaps of grunt (big Impco system) maybe more, and costs bugger all to run in comparison. I used to drive 4.2's for a living and are fully aware of what they are like. The 24 valve, DOHC 4.5 petrol simply run rings around them. Surprising as it may sound, reliability is as good as the 1HZJ diesel, and longevity is not too far off either. Fuel usage is the only downside.

1HZJ fitted with aftermarket turbos are suspect and the motors have a tendency to crap themsleves when running more than a few pounds boost. The factory turbo Toyota motor 1HD-FTE are without doubt the way to go, but were not released in a live axle 100 series. An 80 series 1HD-FT are rare as rocking horse poo, are old looking and still command prices from $35K to $42K. In essence, Toyota never built the rig I wanted.

I'm doing some reno's to the back of my house and building a new shed so something had to go, and the ute was it unfortunately. However, I am planning for another transplant as soon as the funds recover and hopefully I will have a 'proper' diesel sitting in my 105 soon (and the rights to my name back again;-)))
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Reply By: Bilbo - Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 18:17

Sunday, Apr 30, 2006 at 18:17
Valid point "Fisho".

Bilbo
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