Bullbar / Winch - Combination

Submitted: Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 14:27
ThreadID: 33791 Views:4574 Replies:9 FollowUps:8
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First of all I need to say that I find this forum extremely useful and many of my questions were answered by browsing through the different topics. Here is one more...

As many of you have many years of experience with different types of equipment, I would just like to hear your opinions.

I am looking for the 'best' (as if you can ever say that) bullbar/winch-combination for a LC 100 GXL. For the bullbar I was looking at TJM or ECB and for the winch I wanted to go for a WARN. Do you have any positive or nebative feedback on any of these items?

Talking about winches: I estimate the total weight of my vehicle will be around 3600-3800 kg (I know, that's heavy) and was wondering a 9000lbs rated winch would be sufficient or if I have to get a 9500 lbs or even higher. What are your opinions on this.

Once again, thank you very much in advance,

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Reply By: Member - Duncs - Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 14:38

Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 14:38

As you can see from my rig Pic I have a GU I also tow a trailer off road. So far taxes and three children have conspired to keep me winchless, but trust me I have looked.

The decision I made was to fit an ARB bar which is in place and in that I want to mount a Warn HS9500. I have been advised that this is a little light for my rig but this is the reasoning behind my decision.

The HS9500 is much lighter than the 10,000 or 12,000 lb winch that has been recommended so it will put less strain on the suspension and have less effect on handling. The line speed for the HS is almost double the 10000 and more than double the 12. Most of the time you don't get bogged to the eyeballs and really just need a little help to get out, the 9500 will do that. When you are stuck to the eyeballs you can put a snatch block in and have the equivalent of 19000lb pull.

You lose heaps of time pulling line out and then winching the slack cable back onto the drum. With the high speed winch (HS9500) this time loss is halved.

So I think the HS9500 is the go it is lighter which makes it nice for the car to carry and in 99% of cases is quicker which should please SWMBO.

Now I know you will get other opinions but thats mine

AnswerID: 172143

Reply By: Richard W (NSW) - Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 15:05

Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 15:05

I have a TD100 and went the Toyota alloy bar and the X9 Superwinch mainly because of weight issues up front. They are probably not the best but were a compromise at the time for the standard setup and also covered under the warranty. I usually travel by myself with gear for one so I'm not usually heavily loaded. I have now modified the suspension and would probably go a steel bar and heavier winch if I was buying one now. Can't tell you which is the best though.

Did do 4 recoveries in a day on Stockton Beach on a day the sand was really soft. Three of those recovering myself using an 80 series as an anchor. The winch has been through plenty of mud and water and is still working well.
AnswerID: 172144

Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 15:09

Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 15:09
Like the rig pic. Suppose this was the time that you made the decision to buy a winch - wasn't mentioned in the 4 recoveries and you look sunk.

Kind regards
FollowupID: 427722

Follow Up By: Dirk 32 - Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 15:24

Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 15:24

One of the first changes to the car will be the suspension, means weight shouldn't be an issue. I will probably go for a steel bar and a heavier winch. Which suspension system to get will be another big question.

Genuine Toyota parts are probably quite expensive for what you get anyway?

FollowupID: 427725

Follow Up By: Richard W (NSW) - Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 15:58

Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 15:58
It's the bog hole at the botton of Daniels Point Rd in the Watagans, NSW. Had well worn Bridgestone d694's and could have used the winch but a GU with a big lift and muds was in front and snatched us all through. Now have a suspension upgrade and BFG muds and would most likely get through now. Was in the same area two weeks ago and the mudhole was dry.

Went the ATS setup as discribed on the LCOOL site including the diff drop and control arm weld. See My Rig.

Toyota stuff is expensive. If the Dealer is willing to have all the non Toyota stuff fitted before delivery it should be covered by the warranty but best to check.
FollowupID: 427731

Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 14:26

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 14:26
Looks like a serious bog, I hope the passeger was able to get out and hook up the strap. Sure hope you weren't the only person in the car otherwise it would have been a messy affair.

Kind regards
FollowupID: 428438

Reply By: JohnN - Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 15:33

Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 15:33
Gday Dirk

I'm not sure how you assess 'best'. But condsider the toyota steel winch bar. Apparently made for toyota by ARB but not as pretty. I got mine from Toyota for between 700 and 800 dollars.
If you are doing suspension anyway... the extra dollars for 12000 are probably not a big deal in the overall picture.
Have a read of the 4wd South Aus mag article on winches...

TD 100 with toyota steel and 12000lb ;-)
AnswerID: 172146

Reply By: navaraman - Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 18:16

Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 18:16
I've got a TJM bat and a Warn XP9500. it's pulled my patrol up slippery hills (not bogged no traction) and pulled a heavily laden 60 series out of a big bog and up a steep bank without any problem. I'd fit plasma rope too as it cuts down the weight considerably, has less recoil, easier to handle.
AnswerID: 172162

Reply By: atoyot - Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 21:31

Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 21:31
I went for a 12000lb Warn. Yep they're heavier, but I'd rather cop a weight penalty and have a bit more pulling capacity up my sleeve. I have a live axle 100, not IFS, so the weight over the front end is not as much as issue as it might be with IFS. Mine weighed 3.5 tonne, with half fuel and no passengers but well prepared, so at that weight, I'd rather something that is less likely to stall.

Snatch blocks will help smaller winches, but they also work the same on larger ones. A serious bogging in sand may even require a triple line pull, and in that situation, specially if there is a tide coming in, the extra pull of a larger winch might make the difference. It's just a matter of weighing up the potential situations you might find yourself (or more likely, someone else) in.

AnswerID: 172197

Reply By: glenno(qld) - Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 23:12

Thursday, May 11, 2006 at 23:12
Just pop into ARB and ask for a steel winch bar and a WARN HIMOUNT (8000lb) , dual batteries , and recovery gear . Shouldnt cost more than $6000 and you have the best .
AnswerID: 172215

Reply By: Member - Stan (VIC) - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 16:57

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 16:57
If you are planning to get a Warn winch then ARB bull-bar would be the best
as they are designed to take Warn winches. Something like Warn 9500XP or
Warn 9500HS would be the best in terms of speed. If you are planning to do
any water crossing then I would recommend to get the winch waterproofed as well. Also there are new ARB shara bull-bar for 100 Series
on eBay at the moment so might be worth a look...
AnswerID: 172329

Reply By: Jugs - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 20:17

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 20:17

I have just done a lot of research into winches, Ex Navy and I have a serious respect for winching that I sometimes find lacking. One of the best researched articules I have found on this is Recovery bible

I have also turned these figures into a easy to use tick box spread sheet I'm willing to share. The loads are a real eye opener and would lead you well in selection of winch and accessories WLL

Have fun

AnswerID: 172362

Follow Up By: Dirk 32 - Sunday, May 14, 2006 at 11:56

Sunday, May 14, 2006 at 11:56

Yes, I would be interested in your spread sheet. Can you email it to me?

Thank you
FollowupID: 428253

Follow Up By: Jugs - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 18:08

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 18:08
Dirk 32 no problem. send me your e-mail address and I'll forward it will@gyrovision.com.au as I don't know how to post a spread sheet

FollowupID: 428481

Follow Up By: Jugs - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 09:21

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 09:21

spread sheet sent to your e-mail

It works out estimated loads in the winch system, number of snatch blocks to be under the lowest SWL of the weakest link as input by you. In a multiple set of scenarios hard / soft surface, hung up, bogged to tyre wall, axil, body, up/down slope 15,30,45 Deg and combinations of all the above. As based on the work in the Recover Bible. It’s a quick way to do these figures run some scenarios and get an idea of the loads involved.

Eg on the trail my GQ patrol 4.2 metric ton 4200 Kg bogged to the Tyre wall upslope 15 Deg weakest link 3.2 T bow shackle
Straight line pull required 5350Kg (above SWL ) 15 Deg angle of pull from straight 5435Kg (above SWL) 1 snatch block (2 cable runs) 2718Kg in each leg (under SWL) but you have to be aware of the load in the snatch block head, shackle, tree trunk protector, and point you have secured to 5435 kg.

All this is changeable at a key stroke to run different possibilities this should give you a guide to the SWL of the winch accessories appropriate to you.

have fun
FollowupID: 428595

Follow Up By: Dirk 32 - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 15:25

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 15:25
Thank you Jugs,

Had a look at it and played around with some of the figures. Interesting to see how the load changes if you change some parameters.

Thanks a lot
FollowupID: 428644

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 09:32

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 09:32
If you really want to cover your butt, look at a 10k Warn, but I have heard issues with mounting them to 100's (thats how I got mine cheap!). Cant see how, as all have same mounts

For the bar, ARB/TJM are about the same in quality and cost (no price fixing cause its illegal) but every ECB Bar Ive ever seen are genuinely U G L Y!
AnswerID: 172904

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