Pirelli Scorpions????????

Submitted: Monday, May 15, 2006 at 17:59
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OK guys, I know - tyres again, but these are my first set to go on the 100 series. It has standard Grandtreks at the moment - don't do a great deal of off-road although a fair amount of dirt road. Towing caravan and around town is the bulk of my driving though. BFGs seem to be flavour of the month although I'm tempted by the Pirelli Scorpions (yep, I read the 4x4 mag test) as they seem to perform well in the wet blacktop. Bridgestones also performed well and I believe they've ironed out the probs from the 693s. My tyre man is pushing the Michelin Synchrone but I'm more undecided the more I go into this. Recommendations???
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Reply By: drivesafe - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 18:20

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 18:20
Hi Steve, before you go anywhere near the scorpions do a Google of some of the USA sites. They are anything but good.

I had them on my RR and was lucky to get 20,000 kms before they were near slicks.

They are without a exaggeration, the most dangerous tyre I have ever used or come across.

Again, google the USA sites and see what they have to say about them.

I had, unfortunately, already fitted the crap before I read some of the complaints the Yanks had.

One guy put it in a nut shell when he posted “ it was like driving down a freeway covered in spaghetti “ and thats exactly how they handle.

You can’t take your eye off the road for a split second because they cause the vehicle to wonder at the drop of a hat.

I have just put Coopers on but I’m not pushing them as I have not done 1k with them yet.
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Follow Up By: Steve - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 18:49

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 18:49
Cheers mate. I have had reservations and in particular, suspicions about their lifespan. I suppose I was attracted by their supposed good performance on wet bitumen. Pretty important with 1700 kgs on the tow bar. Still, I'm open minded for the time being or put another way, buggered if I know which to go for.
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Reply By: Member - uncle - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:15

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:15
Hi Steve,a good friend had them on his new Cruiser, we were driving on good forest rds west of Eden on NSW sth coast one afternoon and we had 2 flats in an hour.Took them straight back and went for the BFG's.Cheers mate.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kevin H (WA) - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:34

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:34
BFG's ????? Im not really up with all of the short cut stuff yet.

Thanks
Kevin
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Follow Up By: Member - uncle - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:45

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:45
BF Goodrich tyres....
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Follow Up By: Member - Kevin H (WA) - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 21:03

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 21:03
Thanks Uncle
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Reply By: Laura B - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:26

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:26
Try my post that i had about these a few weeks ago...

post number 33494

Laura B....hope it helps
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Reply By: Martyn (WA) - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:49

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 19:49
Steve,
You won't go far wrong with the BFG's, just make sure the ones you buy if you decide to go down that track are made in the US and not Japan. The US ones tend to last longer. To date I haven't had a problem with any of the BFG's I've purchased. I'm running the All Terrains on my Patrol and Muddies on my Range Rover. When I have a problem I'll change until then I'll be using someting I have confidence and experience. A few people in the 4WD club I belong to changed to Cooper's they've all come back to BFG's again now for one reason or another.
My opinions and experiences as usual.
Keep the shiny side up

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AnswerID: 172830

Follow Up By: Steve - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 20:12

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 20:12
They can't all be wrong.

@ $295 I'll have to do a bit of arm twisting.
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Reply By: Trevor M (SA) - Monday, May 15, 2006 at 20:25

Monday, May 15, 2006 at 20:25
There was a post on this not long ago.

I had a set on my Patrol but now there is only half a set. Lost 2 to sidewall bulges. I wouldn't go with them again. From responses to the previous post it would appear you shouldn't run a lot of pressure in them.

Wear is not great but not as bad as would be indicated by some of the earlier replies. It is the sidewall issues that have put me off. Never had a problem like this with any other tyres.

Cheers
Trevor
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Reply By: Member - Dedalus (SA) - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 07:18

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 07:18
Hi steve
I'm working for a big tour operator (APT) here in Kangaroo Island. We are doing 4wd tours using landcruisers 100 series . We always used cooper tyres AT and now ATR ... I can say there are very good! In my 80 series I had a set of BFG good but very noisi tyres (on bitumen) ... Cooper ATR are very quiet and very robust! Just come back from North Flinders Ranges an Arkaroola wit a new set ... surprise! No one chip or cut ... tyres looked new!
If I can suggest ... go for it . They last longer (and they cost a bit more)!

Luca
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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 07:34

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 07:34
Hi Dedalus, as I posted, I haven’t done 1k yet but the very first thing I noticed is just how quiet the Coppers are on the black stuff.

I’ve had them off road twice on the last two weekend and they are, so far, proving to be excellent, BUT they are new.

You posted you get good mileage out of them, any sort of comparison in mileage to other tyres.

Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Member - Dedalus (SA) - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 19:19

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 19:19
OK. When we buy a new 100 series it will came with "grantrek" .... they last here on K.I. about 30-35,000 km ..... wery good on bitumen but a disaster on gravel!
Cooper last about 70,000 km , new ATR around 80,000 km .... usually with no flat tyre! Now considering we are running tours every day .... not bad!
By the way, I'm working as tourguide foa Kangaroo Island Odysseys, part of the big Australian Pacific Touring.

Regards
Luca
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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 20:12

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 20:12
Thanks Dedalus, hopefully than, I can expect to get some decent milage from the Coopers.

As posted above, I’ve had them off road twice now and found them excellent but it’s still early days.

With your touring, do you do any semi-extreme off roading and if so, how do you find them.

Cheers.

BTW how much off roading is there on K.I.
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Follow Up By: Steve - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 21:06

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 21:06
Apparently they don't do 275s in the ATR. The man suggested 265s instead. Is that what you have Dedalus? They "guarantee" 90,000 ks for what that's worth and 60,000 on the HTs. At $293 and $265 respectively, you'd have to say the ATRs are better value.

So looks like ATRs for me.

Until I change my mind again. ;>)
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Follow Up By: Member - Dedalus (SA) - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 22:25

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 22:25
Drivesafe

... no, here in K.I. we dont have any extreme stuff .... we hav a lot of gravel road ... My company need a "solid/robust" tyre to ensure a safe driving without a flat! I just come back from Arkaroola 2 weeks ago. Driven a lot on the "back" track with a lot of mud (it raied the night efore) ... found my 80 series (petrol/auto) very good with the new tyres (*ATR). Did not use any diff lock even on a really muddy tracks! The tyres performed very well and they surpised me a lot! Good traction an self cleaning ....
Driven also from Yunta to Arkaroola on the "highway" (90-100 km/h) on very loose gravel ... no problem!
I can say I'm very happy with my choice as tourguide and as privare user!
I had before BFG. They where good but very noises and the car wasn't so confortable to drive ... they last long but they gone on the edges! I'm using 40 psi on black top and 32 (front) 34 (rear) on gravel. Gone to 20 psi on soft sand and on the Skytrek (Flinders) run them on 30-32 psi.



Steve
... read the fine print on the bottom of the brochure ...!!! They garantee it only if you live in the "capital cities" .... is kingscote capital city of K.I. ???
Yes, I'm using 265/75R16

Ciao

Luca
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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 06:09

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 06:09
Thanks Luca, from your experiences, it sounds like I’ve made the right choice.

Cheers and thanks again.
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Reply By: Steve - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 08:52

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 08:52
Cheers for that mate. I keep referring to those test results in last year's 4x4 mag. It agrees with your noisey BFG comment but what bothers me is the stopping distance req'd and wet bitumen performance on Coopers. They don't test the ATRs just ST-Cs. Any comment on wet bitumen performance? Stopping?

Drivesafe: didn't know you drove a Roller. (RR) ;>)
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 10:18

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 10:18
>>> I keep referring to those test results in last year's 4x4 mag

Remember these magazines need advertising to survive.. thats called $$$....
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Reply By: Steve - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 13:28

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 13:28
truckster; we've been thru this argument and basically they all advertise, so they can't give top marks to them all. In fact, Pirelli, who's Scorpion came out top, did the least advertising. MT and Coopes occupied far more advertising space. Still, you and others have convinced me to steer clear of the Scorpions.

re: Coopers ATRs, I've just come off the dog & bone and the man said they don't do ATRs in 275x70x16. Am I missing something? Or is he?
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Follow Up By: Steve - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 13:29

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 13:29
btw, he quoted me $265 on Coopers HTs.
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Follow Up By: Pluto - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 14:22

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 14:22
I think the nearest specs for the ATR's are 265/70R16, LT265/75R16, LT285/75R16
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Reply By: Member - Des - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 15:20

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 15:20
The Pirelli Scorpion A/Ts are available in either LT or passenger construction. The mag test used LTs. Maybe some of those who have had bad experiences with the Scorpions have been using the passenger ones?

Just a thought - never had them myself.
AnswerID: 172952

Follow Up By: drivesafe - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 20:16

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 20:16
Hi Des, correct, mine were the passenger type which is all the more reason to keep away from all Pirelli products.

If tyres, specifically designed for road use, are so dangerous then I can’t see how any of their products could be viewed as safe.

Cheers.
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Reply By: MattSTR - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 19:37

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 19:37
Hi Steve, am at the same stage as you. Have a 5 month old STR Navara (great 4WD) & I am nearly through the OE B/stone 693's after 25K kms, might get 30 if I'm lucky, Not happy Jan!!!. This is my second set of 693's, I had a previous set on a falcon outback ute, good grip but same problem wear out in no time flat, & no I don't do smokys or circuit work. I would'nt have the 693s again.
I too was looking at the Scorpions but not sure anymore. Cooper ATR's look good , my local Tyrepower manager has them on his Triton 4by & he's wrapped with them, after 30K minimal wear & good allround grip. The new Yokohama Geolander A/T+11's are another I'm looking at, also look like a good AT tread said to be quiet & good wearing & good price $249. I've had 2 sets of BFG ATs on a previous Cruiser which we took 1/2 way around Oz. We found to be a good all round AT, had some problems with delamination of the casings which BFG replaced under warranty after 60K kms no questions asked, they said bad batch. I also found after about 50K they became slippery on the black stuff. At the risk of upsetting the huge BFG following on this forum, I thought after 25 years BFG might try tweaking or a newer tread pattern. If it aint broke don't fix it, I hear them all cry.
My research on the Michelins is all good but at $354 ea for the ATs its a big ask.
I'm no closer to a decision either at this stage.
Can you help me with the details of the tyre review you have referred to; which Mag & Issue please.

Cheers, Matt.
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Follow Up By: Steve - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 21:27

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 21:27
Hi Matt, I'm heading towards the Coopers ATRs, I think.

How about us both fronting up together to strike a decent deal for 8/10 tyres?

The comparison was in the January 06 issue of Aust. 4wd monthly magazine. I know these tests have their critics but it was pretty comprehensive. As for the advertising favours, the overall winner,(Pirelli Scorpions) probably do the least advertising of all in the mag, so don't see much argument there. My main gripe is the one thing they leave out of the test is wear and tear/longevity.
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Follow Up By: Steve - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 21:33

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 21:33
oh btw, the Coopers they test are not ATRs but ST-Cs. That's the other thing, out of 14 manufacturers, they each only have one tyre type tested, so if it's one you've ruled out you'll have to hope the good folks on here will help. I'd happily scan and paste it up here if I knew how.
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Follow Up By: MattSTR - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 21:46

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 21:46
Thanks for the mag info Steve, bulk order sounds like a great idea.

I'm leaning towards the Coopers ATR's as well.

After all this research we'll know more than the sales reps so maybe they should GIVE them to us to review!!!

Since posting my original, I've been searching the forum for the Yokies and they don't get a good rap noise wise.

TimHJ61 seems to be lucky & I guess has 15'' rims which drops $90 off the tyre price.

I can't find a half reasonable 16" tyre for under $220.

Here's to rubber. Cheers
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Reply By: Tim HJ61 (WA) - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 21:06

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 21:06
Just for something different - I actually have a set of Scorpion AT LT 31 x 10.5 on my HJ61, so can speak from direct experience not hearsay, nor drift the thread off topic by discussing other brands.

They handle well, but wear on the rears is not good. Handling is adequate for all my purposes - 80% on road and 20% off road. I might get 35K out of the rears but the fronts still have heaps of tread on them. I've had one flat rear from a 6" screwdriver going through the tread.

Tyre fitter recommended 40 psi in them, so that's what I ran for some time, but then found the tyre placard recommended 30 psi and given the rear were wearing too much in the centre, I dropped the pressure to 30psi and they've been doing fine.

Would I buy them again? Maybe. $160 is not bad.

Would they suit your purpose given you are towing? I'd have my doubts given my experience of high wear on the power wheels.

Tim
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Follow Up By: Steve - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 21:20

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 21:20
Cheers Tim.

Rapidly going off the Scorpions though. For now anyway.
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Reply By: Farside - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 13:27

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 13:27
Steve,

Hi, I had a set of Scorpions A/T's on my 95 series Prado. They lasted me 50k easily. On the black top they handled great, a bit noisy. On the dirt they were average (not bad) and tended to dig in when on the beach. I had zero punctures. When it came to replacing them I had trouble getting the size I wanted and so decided to switch to Cooper A/T's. They were quieter, and were much better off road, but on the black top in the wet they felt like ice skates.

I now have a GU with Bridgestone which work well, but I don’t think I am going to get the same life as the Scorpions, but I think that is more driver related than the tire.

Angus
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Reply By: Steve - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 19:05

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 19:05
The deal is done. (de de de derrrrrrrrrrrr - fanfare)

BFGs @$280 plus steel rims @ $50 to save my mags "for best" all on 12 months interest free at Bob Jane.

Still, liked the Coopers ATRs but this was a good deal and all those BFG owners can't be wrong.

Thanks for the input, guys.

All I want to hear now is all you BFG owners telling me they're the best rubber you've ever had and you'd never entertain anything else.

(Wonder what those Coopers'd've been like??????)
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Follow Up By: drivesafe - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 19:36

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 19:36
Steve, don’t worry about the Coopers, just let us know how you find the BFGs once you have used them for a while.
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