Nissan Patrol GUIII 3.0TD OIL

Submitted: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 20:23
ThreadID: 33956 Views:14259 Replies:11 FollowUps:20
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I went to the Shell Depot today and brought up the lube database on computer for my Nissan Patrol, a GU III, 3.0L TD auto, and then brought the recommended oil which was Shell Rimula X 15W-40. I've got 30 litres of the stuff sitting in the shed now for the next 4 or so services.

Opened the box and checked the specs once I got home and realised that it is a CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF standard oil.

The handbook for the car specifically says not to use oil rated better than CF-4.

Its in for a service tomorrow morning at 7am and its too late to go back out to the depot.

Can anyone tell me if the specs for the engine have been updated by Nissan to allow CG oils to be used. I assume that Shell would not make a false recommendation but I wouldn't mind some up to date info if its changed.

Regards

Dave
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Reply By: bob&loz - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 20:35

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 20:35
have a look at the castrol site. they dont recomend any of their deisel oils
i use the full synthetic edge

bob
AnswerID: 173010

Reply By: Leroy - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 20:50

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 20:50
You will find now that Nissan specify a 10w40 oil now not a 15w40!

Does the manual actually specify not to use an oil better than CF-4?

Leroy
AnswerID: 173014

Follow Up By: blown4by - Saturday, May 20, 2006 at 12:32

Saturday, May 20, 2006 at 12:32
Note 5 next to ZD30DDTi on page 9-2 in the Nissan patrol Owners Manual states: " Never use API CG-4."
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Sunday, May 21, 2006 at 18:23

Sunday, May 21, 2006 at 18:23
CG-4 is not a better spec oil. A better spec is a CHor CI rated oil.

Leroy
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Reply By: Member - Paul P (Bris) - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 20:56

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 20:56
Dave

Synforce actually produce an oil suitable for the Nissan 3.0 diesel. ( I dont use it or have any commercial interest)

Currently I use the Nissan semi synth (genuine oil) which I believe is blended by Shell Japan to Nissan specs.

Regards

Paul
AnswerID: 173015

Reply By: Pattio - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 21:21

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 21:21
Hi Moneypit
Have a look at at post ID 26485. Have seen variations of this on other sites. Don't know if it is authentic. I have been using theNissan Semi Synthetic as recomended by my Nissan dealer,for a while now. This does not help your morning booking. Regards Chtis
AnswerID: 173019

Reply By: Exploder - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 21:24

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 21:24
CF-4 Is a 1990-rated Oil, CG-4 is 94+ and CH-4 is 98+

and CH-4 can and be used inplace of CF-4
CI-4 is the most current and can be used in place of CF-4 oils

I thought you should only use JASO DH1 Oil (Japanese Automobile Standards Organization). With a viscosity index of 10W40, and not to use API oils.

I think that's right, it's only ya engine at stake. LOL
AnswerID: 173021

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 18:32

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 18:32
Strewth, that old Castrol ad must have been right............."Oils ain't oils, Sol"

How many bloody letters and variations can there be for stuff you stick into your bloody motor????????????/
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Follow Up By: blown4by - Saturday, May 20, 2006 at 12:30

Saturday, May 20, 2006 at 12:30
That is not correct. The year the particular higher specification came into being does not mean you can use a specification of oil that is manufactured to suit 2006 engines in a 1910 diesel engine. The reason the engine manufacturer says use CF or lower is because the CG/CH/CI oils have additives in them that they don't want used in their engines. Whether they are right or wrong is immaterial if your engine is still under warranty. It might be due to the oil detergency, ash content, engine valve seat material, bearing material, amount of sulphur in the fuel in different countires, etc, etc. The API (American Petroleum Intsitute) and JASO (Japan) are standards from different countries and as such they have equivalents so that engines made in one country and sold globally can obtain a correct equivalent in the countries they are sold into. Note 5 next to ZD30DDTi on page 9-2 in the Nissan patrol Owners Manual states: " Never use API CG-4."
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Follow Up By: Exploder - Thursday, May 25, 2006 at 19:41

Thursday, May 25, 2006 at 19:41
Why are they recommending an oil classification from 1990 in a 2000 engine?

Relevant Oil Listings

CI-4 >Introduced September 5, 2002. For high-speed, four-stroke engines designed to meet 2004 exhaust emission standards implemented in 2002. CI-4 oils are formulated to sustain engine durability where exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) is used and are intended for use with diesel fuels ranging in sulfur content up to 0.5% weight. Can be used in place of CD, CE, CF-4, CG-4, and CH-4 oils.

CH-4> Introduced in 1998. For high-speed, four-stroke engines designed to meet 1998 exhaust emission standards. CH-4 oils are specifically compounded for use with diesel fuels ranging in sulphur content up to 0.5% weight. Can be used in place of CD, CE, CF-4, and CG-4 oils.

CG-4> Introduced in 1995. For severe duty, high speed, four-stroke engines using fuel with less than 0.5% weight sulphur. CG-4 oils are required for engines meeting 1994 emission standards. Can be used in place of CD, CE, and CF-4 oils.

CF-4> Introduced in 1990. For high-speed, four-stroke, naturally aspirated and turbocharged engines. Can be used in place of CD and CE oils.

The CF rating is for fuel with over .05% sulphur, CG is less that and CH and CI have been back to .05%

That would be why it say’s not to use CG-4 oils due to the suffer content of AUS diesel.

CF and CF-4 oils are different also.
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Reply By: 120scruiser (NSW) - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 22:19

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 22:19
Hi Moneypit
I have an extract from the Nissan circular of the recommended oil on my website.
Oil Specifications
Make of it what you will but we use 10w/40 semi synthetic in all 3.0 litre patrols that go through my workshop.
Hope this makes sense
Cheers
120scruiser
AnswerID: 173033

Follow Up By: Leroy - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 22:23

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 22:23
the nissan oil or another brand?

Leroy
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Follow Up By: 120scruiser (NSW) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 08:10

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 08:10
I use a different brand.
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 19:25

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 19:25
brand being?
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Follow Up By: 120scruiser (NSW) - Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 09:56

Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 09:56
Gulf Western Motor Oils.
Google it and you will find their website.

They are just around the corner from me and they are personal friends as well.
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FollowupID: 429179

Follow Up By: Leroy - Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 11:59

Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 11:59
hmmmm......thanks for that.

Leroy
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Reply By: rooscoota - Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 23:04

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at 23:04
hey hey g'day moneypit

for what its worth, i did some extensive research both on the web as well as ringing the consumer phone numbers of the various petroleum companies when i acquired my 2001 GU11 ST 3.0L with 137,000 km's on the clock, after all my indepth analysis i decided on SHELL HELIX DIESEL SUPER 15W/40 A.P.I. SF/CH, i've had the vehicle for 2.5 years now and clocked up 167,000km's and service it, myself, every 5000km's without fail.... this particular oil DOES NOT contain the CG4 additive, which is a no no, and can only say no probs here, touch wood, but the keyword is "5000km's"... no oil top ups between services, no oil burning out the exhaust and no oil leaks....hope this helps...

regards
____________________________________________________________________

lifes a garden.......... dig it


AnswerID: 173045

Reply By: blown4by - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 00:01

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 00:01
Nissan specifically advise against the use of fully synthetic oils. I use Mobil Synth 'S' which is a 10W-40 oil. Refer Nissan Technical Bulletin MA- 04-001 of 30th Sept 2004 Oil Spec ACEA B3 10W-40 CF or lower. With a lubricant of this quality and this type of engine, oil changes under 10000 Km are an unecessary expense unless operating under one or more of the severe service conditions as detailed in your handbook. It is accepted however that oil change intervals more often than that recommended by the engine manufacturer is entirely a personal decision and if it makes you feel better then do it.
AnswerID: 173059

Follow Up By: Chaz - Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 16:50

Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 16:50
Hi blown4by,
I must say that I agree with your statements, and I think that if you use an oil that is better or "higher spec" than the recomended Nissan oil, there should be no issue with 10,000km service intervals. However I can't find it anywhere in the bulletin, where it says not to use a fully synthetic oil.
I have been using Mobil1 for some time and have noticed some small benifits, particularly a quieter cold engine and it feels smoother, but that could be my imagination also. I havent noticed any significant changes in EGT's although I would have expected them to be lower with a thinner oil.
Mobil did recomend Mobil1 as well as Mobil Synth S for the ZD30 and it's interesting to note that in Europe, Nissan are recomending a 5W/30 for the ZD30.

Chaz
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Follow Up By: blown4by - Saturday, May 20, 2006 at 12:08

Saturday, May 20, 2006 at 12:08
I think there is an issue with fully synthetics (e.g. Mobil 1) being "too good" at their job. With the diesel engine being compression ignition you run much higher compression pressures and therefore rely on maximum sealing of the piston rings. I know fully synthetic oils are not recommended for initial fill or during the "running-in" periods on some engines because they do not allow the rings to "bed-in" and this can cause oil burning and therefore increased oil consumption down the track. My mate is a Lubrication Engineer with Mobil and it was based on his advice that I use Synth 'S'. My local Nissan Service Manager, who I know personally through my work as well as owning a Patrol, (so he couldn't care less whether I buy Nissan oil or not) also advised against the use of fully synthetic oil. As a qualified Motor Mechanic and Automotive Engineer myself I went into it pretty thoroughly because when I lay out 55 of my hard earned readies and being a pedantic as well as tight bustard I want to make sure I look after the investment. Additionally as I service it myself I wanted to make sure there would be no warranty issues so I have had the dealer confirm in writing that the lubricants I am using have their approval.
Re Mobil 1, I don't have a Mobil cattle dog at home to refer to but I'd have thought it would exceed the CF rating and as Nissan say "CF or lower" that alone would preclude it's use. The reason they would recommend 5W/30 in Europe is colder temperatures i.e Minimums below 0 degrees C and maximums below 30 degrees C so the 5W gives you a lower viscosity for cold starts and you don't need a 40 or 50 at the other end as it doesn't get hot enough like in Oz.
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Reply By: Moneypit - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 00:21

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 00:21
Thanks to everyone. Seems like I will be going back to the Shell Depot tomorrow before it goes in for the oil change.

It seems that Sheel Rimula D is OK and that is what I've used till now. I just thought that Nissan must have upspecced the motor regarding oil but it seems if they have no-one's been told.

Thanks again

Dave
AnswerID: 173064

Follow Up By: hl - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 06:50

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 06:50
Hi,

Nowhere do they say not to use a better spec oil than CG-4. It just says never to use CG-4 oil, in fact, the spec is a B3 and 10W40. I think the important point is the lower viscosity now recommended to assist flow.
Cheers

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FollowupID: 428885

Follow Up By: blown4by - Saturday, May 20, 2006 at 12:37

Saturday, May 20, 2006 at 12:37
Common sense would indicate that "Never use API CG-4." means that and anything higher I would have thought?
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FollowupID: 429652

Follow Up By: hl - Saturday, May 20, 2006 at 14:48

Saturday, May 20, 2006 at 14:48
Hi,

Actually, this is not quite true for the diesel oil specification. With oils rated primarily for petrol engines, the newer spec is always incorporating the older, lower rating i.e. SJ is always suitable for engines that require SG, SH.
This is not so for the diesel oil specs.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 429659

Reply By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 18:01

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 18:01
Nissan are very specific, "strongly recommend a 10W40 oil and CF4 not CG4.

I use Castrol Magnatec, even though my years in rallying make me less than a fan of Castrol oils.
The local Nissan rep says Magnatec is the way to go.

David
AnswerID: 173179

Follow Up By: hl - Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 06:53

Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 06:53
Why?
The Nissan branded semi-synthetic oil is all but a couple of bucks more for the 5l.
I think I paid $34.00 last time, Magnatec was $32.00. So hardly worth worrying about.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 429139

Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 07:33

Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 07:33
If you are asking why I use Magnatec rather than Nissan oil, that is simple, I pay way less for Magnatec than Nissan oil. I don't pay retail for Magnatec.
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Follow Up By: hl - Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 08:00

Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 08:00
Point taken... Although for the avearge punter there is so little in it, I think it's best to stick with the nissan brew. Especially if it should be necessary to make a warranty claim on a blown engine.
Cheers
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FollowupID: 429148

Reply By: Moneypit - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 21:58

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 21:58
Shell Depot had no arguments at all and changed it over without complaint. Ended up with the regular Rimula D.

Now I'm paranoid about whether the service people just sticm my oil to one side and sell it and just stick the regular 'used every day' drum oil in the Nissan.

I'm killing myself worrying about things I can't control.

Dave B
AnswerID: 173239

Follow Up By: bob&loz - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 22:08

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 22:08
why not put it in youself and save the worry
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Follow Up By: blown4by - Saturday, May 20, 2006 at 12:10

Saturday, May 20, 2006 at 12:10
Only way to go in my opinion!
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