Diff lockers, practicality

Submitted: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 11:57
ThreadID: 33978 Views:2225 Replies:10 FollowUps:18
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Hey Guys,

Just came to my attention after getting in a really nasty bog only having 2 wheels actually driving the car that i may need some form of a diff lock, since i have no lsd or anything.

I have been looking into them a bit and from what i can see alot of people seem to preffer the automatic locking diff locks... does anyone have one of these?

I have heard it 'can' effect your steering? is this true

Are there any Cons in getting one fitted with the vehice is driven 70% on road and 30% 4wd'ing

Help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance guys

Justin
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Reply By: Member - John L G - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 12:38

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 12:38
Part time or Full time 4WD??????????
AnswerID: 173125

Reply By: cipher - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 12:41

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 12:41
Hi thanks for quick reply,

my Rig is a FJ62 1988 Its part time 4wd.
AnswerID: 173126

Follow Up By: Member - John L G - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 13:25

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 13:25
Cipher

You should get plenty of input on this topic from the OZ gang so be warned.

If you are heavily into the dirty stuff and are forever going places where no man fears to tread, I would probably reccomend the air lockers. Front first and rear if you still have the readies. However they are expensive by the time the compressor is setup and in real terms there seems to be no definitive proof that they are superior to the Auto lockers except perhaps in the extremes of competion or hairy chested off road hero stuff.

I installed auto "Lokka"'s in the front of my 75 series which is also part time, same as yors, as I sometimes found myself in situations you describe which could have been avoided with more traction before the vehicle ran out of puff.

As I was buying a winch at the time, the Lokka's were on special inclusive with the X9 winch, from the supplier which made them a pretty affordable extra for the Tojo. From memory the buy price was $499 - not fitted which was an extra $200 by a diff centre down the road.

I have read all the different opinions on both and with the experience gained from my own set up, can not really see why you would bother spending the extra dollars for air lockers on a "recreational" off roader, unlees of course you were after the little glowing switch as another gadjet for the dashboard..

Their auto lokka operation is quiet and in real terms, I can not hear them engaging or disengaging.

They are not an issue at all on the open road as the front hubs are obviously unlocked so the front diff is having a rest so to speak.

When in use in the soft stuff they have proved invaluable with only a slight tendancy to steer straight, unlike the air lockers which will really push straight in those conditions. This in my opinion is an absolute plus for the auto lockers as you simply wander along windy tracks with the locker engaging - disengaging as is neccessary.

The air locker has to be manually locked in and out as you come to the soft bits and the windy beach tracks I describe above are more the norm than the exception.

Still there are plenty here who will disagree - so good luck sorting it out.

However IMHO, the auto is easily the most cost effective and certainly does it for me.

Have Fun

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Follow Up By: Coops (Perth) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 14:45

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 14:45
I'd have to agree with all of that John
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Reply By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 12:50

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 12:50
As John L G asked, is it all wheel drive eg 80 series or get out and lock the hubs in job ?? I have been told to go for the air locker in my hilux due to where I live heaps of bends etc and will scrubb out my tyres too quickly. I presume your talking about getting one in the rear. I will eventually get an air one in the rear and a lock rite in the front as it wont be active in the front untill I lock my hubs in. This is what I have been told so I presume TJM know what there talking about. Unless some one else on here with a lot more knowledge might be able to inform yourself and me as to the correct type and proper information. A lot of people I have spoken too say get the air as it's either locked or it isn't but there is a huge differance in cost as your first air locker will require compressor to start with. Have been told $1800 for the first one then a further $1300 for the second air one. Lock rights are apparently about $650. I'm sure some one will correct me if I'm wrong on this. Regards Steve M
AnswerID: 173128

Follow Up By: Member - Jiarna (NT) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 21:52

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 21:52
Don't forget TJM sell an air operated diff lock, so they are likely to be biased towards fitting air operated rather than auto lockers.
Those who say something cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it.

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Reply By: cipher - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 12:55

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 12:55
thanks stephen

Yeah its a part time 4wd as i said above, i have freewheeling hubs,

So does this mean if i unlock the hubs then i wont notice any difference in driving if i fitted a 'LOKKA' locker to the front diff?

Is this correct guys or am i missing something

Ultimately i would love an airlocker, however its my first 4wd, and i dont want to lose too much money if and when i sell it to get a newer 4wd.
Plus i have heard a few bad things about the arb airlockers.

AnswerID: 173129

Follow Up By: Member - Troll 81 (QLD) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 12:58

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 12:58
Hi Cipher

I am running ARB lockers front and rear and I can only say good things about them. They have taken me places where I never would have been able to go without a locker

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FollowupID: 428953

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 13:04

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 13:04
Hi there cipher I'm with you there I am presuming the same thing that unless your hubs are locked in the front lock rite would not be working which is what we would want.?? Hopefully some one will give us the correct answer we are looking for Regards Steve M
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Follow Up By: Coops (Perth) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 14:52

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 14:52
that is correct. Lock the hubs, engage 4WD and both wheels will turn together.
Unlock the hubs and they will unlock during cornering. Nowhere near as rigid as air lockers when engaged and steering is very manageable although I haven't experienced extremely muddy conditions as yet.
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 18:45

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 18:45
Locked hubs are "locked" no matter how you "lock them". I have Lok right in the front of the 80 series and it is great. Sure air lockers are the ants pants but the lokright type are actually "auto unlockers".
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Follow Up By: Member - Jiarna (NT) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 21:55

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 21:55
Yes cipher
If your front hubs are unlocked then you can weld the diff centre solid if you like - it will have no effect whatsoever on steering.
Cheers
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Reply By: MAVERICK(WA) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 13:05

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 13:05
go ahead and fit any of the lockers that are available - air (as per arb) are ok just need to watch the compressor mountings and the airhoses but they are good. constant lockers are ok but can be a bit noisy and you can sometimes 'feel' them at low speed on the bitumen. disconnecting the front hubs renders the front locker 'open' same as normal 4wd operation with hubs. just be ready for when you really start getting to use them especially if on rocks as there are other bits that generally manage to give up first - like cv joints, axles etc and when you get stuck after using your lockers you better hope that whoever is coming to get you has lockers fitted as well..............but isn't that what it is all about - go and get them fitted and have fun. rgds
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AnswerID: 173131

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 13:19

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 13:19
Thanks Maverick for confirming the bit about the front hubs part of it.I am actually in the process of pulling out rear diff and getting limo fixed and fitting new wheel bearings etc and will put a lock rite in the front only for now and see what sort of trouble I get myself in befor I worry about the back. Only costing me $ 550 to get the limo and new wheel bearings done thats with me pulling aprt and putting back together Regards Steve M
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 22:13

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 22:13
If you're gunna get the LSD fixed anyway, why not do the lokka instead.....i wouldn't think it would cost a helluva lot more than getting the lsd done up?

Also, they (the experts) say that a locker (of any sort) is better off being in the rear diff, with the possible exception of the Patrols (because they are re-knowned for having a very stron LSD in the first place. So, if you can only aford one locker (in anything other than a Patrol), then you should whack it in the back pumpkin.

I have a air locker in the front diff and wouldn't feel comfortable without it there these days.
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Reply By: cipher - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 13:17

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 13:17
thanks very much Maverick for clarifying that end result.

I do in the future plan to buy an arb airlocker for the rear of the car...

So yeah i guess ill be asking questions about that in the future..

Thanks everyone for your help, you guys are fantastic.

Also sorry one last question. With the front two wheels locked together how difficult is it to steer and how much understeer will be given because of the lockers?

Thanks, thats the last question on this topic guys, i promise lol ;-)

Justin
AnswerID: 173134

Follow Up By: Member - John L G - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 14:00

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 14:00
The understeer is minimal but there is more a tendency for the steering to feel a tad heavier and self centre more readily. It is a much more steerable option than the air locker if that is switched on.

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FollowupID: 428963

Follow Up By: big fella - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 18:35

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 18:35
hi john my question is if the hubs are locked but you haven't engaged 4wd does this mean that the lockers aren't yet working as i am technicaly still in 2wd

Regards BigFella
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FollowupID: 429020

Follow Up By: Member - John L G - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 19:28

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 19:28
Big Fella

Basically yes.

I did wonder about that myself, before my brain became a bit overclogged with information, as the turning input to the differential is being provided by the drive from the wheels rather than the power input from the engine via the transfer case.

Certainly once I'm in the scrub; I leave the hubs locked and simply select four wheel drive when I actually need it. It simply means that when I'm in four wheel drive the front diff lokka is operating without me having to think about it.

Once you re-select 2WD high range the vehicle simply becomes a two wheel drive again with the front wheels and diff idling along with the momentum of the vehicle.
You don't have to get out and unlock the hubs as the arrangement seems quite happy operatring in that manner and certainly there is no steering effect from the front end when in that mode.

When you then need 4WD, select Hi or Low 4WD and you will automatically bring in both front wheels into play providing drive to both front wheels and whatever else the back of the vehicle feels like contributing.

I think that's probably as clear as mud but it sort of makes sense to me.

If still confused, nag me a bit and I'll have another go.

Regards
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FollowupID: 429033

Follow Up By: big fella - Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 05:40

Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 05:40
thanks for that understand perfectly as you say you don't want to have get out of the car all the time to lock and unlock when going from road to dirt

Regards BigFella
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FollowupID: 429133

Reply By: Member - Browny (VIC) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 16:19

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 16:19
Cipher,

I was of the oppinion that with the auto "lokkas" they are permanently engaged giving drive to both wheels (when hubs are locked) at all times, but disengage automaticly apon turning so as to operate like a "normal" diff ?

So in theory they are actually "unlockers" not much help to your question I know, but just something I thought I would mention, I could be rong though apparently I have been before, just can't recall it though..............:-)

Cheers..........Browny
AnswerID: 173158

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 18:34

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 18:34
Hi there Cipher, I have been told the exact same thing that they will unlock when turning the wheel.?? Regards Steve M
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FollowupID: 429019

Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 19:53

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 19:53
You got it Browny....the auto locker is actually an auto unlocker
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Reply By: Member - Vincent A M (NSW) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 17:16

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 17:16
i have tried all types over the years in different vechiles this is my spin on it

first & top of the list air lockers they work when there locked there locked & thats what you want ,yes sterring can be a problem & if it is maybe you should not be locked in

one of my Air locker diffs years ago failed after 500000klms it rumbled & ran & make horible nosies for thousands of klms & never realy failed i found a brand of auto locker type used to fail if the diff oil got hot on a long trip & one other brand i had if you crossed a creek & got the slightest bit of water it would blow to bits in a few klm & in wet wether both were a problem

remember that a locker type diff normally will not get you out of trouble it will get you further in it & when this happens you better have good recovery gear

if you have not fitted a winch(or have a hand winch) spend the money instead on one because it will get you out better than a locker

if you go a air locker fit the compressor etc outside of the cabin sometimes when they are fitted inside you can get a bad oil smell

good luck
AnswerID: 173169

Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 23:38

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 23:38
Justin,

If you want to use the locker on the very odd occasion, then install the front one only and it will hardly get used.

If you want to get your money worth out of a locker then fit a rear.

With a rear locker you can use them going up a hill and also going down a hill.

With a front locker you can only use them going up a hill as long as it is in a straight line.

There has been a lot of debate about where a single locker should go.

Nissan had a locker as a option on the GQ, rear only

Toyota had twin lockers as a option, rear on first then the front. You could not put the front on by itself

ARB have the same with there lockers, rear first then front.

Can you see a pattern.

I have had air lockers on all the 4WD vehicles and all but one had front and rear. I hardly ever used the front.

Wayne
AnswerID: 173263

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 23:46

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 at 23:46
me too, I'm air locked both ends but for some reason the rear is usually enough to get me through so the front rarely gets used....guess I'm not trying hard enough :)
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FollowupID: 429112

Follow Up By: Member - Barry C (NT) - Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 23:37

Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 23:37
Wayne you make good sense here thanks,, I see the pattern and my usage will be same as you I suggest. we have arb.

Cheers Barry
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FollowupID: 429392

Reply By: Ozrunner - Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 22:09

Thursday, May 18, 2006 at 22:09
Also give some consideration to what your main useage will be.

On soft beach sections I've found my front ARB makes a lot of difference compared to using my rear locker.

As the rear is also a gear driven LSD it compliments the front locker perfectly in sand etc without having turning issues.

But on steep rutted hills using both front and rear lockers is definately the go.
AnswerID: 173442

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