Diesel fuel pump longevity.............................

Submitted: Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 15:50
ThreadID: 34343 Views:4411 Replies:10 FollowUps:26
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There is nothing wrong with my fuel pump BUT, I would like to know if there are any warning signs if an injector pump is about to kark it.?

Any wise people out there?

Thanks and cheers

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Reply By: Member - Nick (Kununurra) - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 16:01

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 16:01
With our Cruiser it blew smoke(black) when cold,once warmed up it seemed better but tail gate was always stained with soot.Also when acelerating it wasnt smooth all the way through the rev range,you'd hit real dead/rough spots.Suprisingly fuel consumption didnt change once pump repaired much.We had both injectors and pump done so symptoms could have come from either.
AnswerID: 175201

Follow Up By: Willem - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 16:09

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 16:09
THanks Nick

Mine does blow a little smoke on accelleration when towing, but nothing adverse. Injectors probably need a service.

I take it that you are sitting in front of the air conditioner while I am sitting in front of a heater...lol
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FollowupID: 431278

Follow Up By: Member - Nick (Kununurra) - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 16:17

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 16:17
Actually just changed a flat tyre on the cruiser and about to give it a wash.It is usually around 30 deg of a day here now but we have a pool and there's no way I can get in it its too cold.A 30deg day in TASSIE would nearly kill you but up here it feels like a 25 deg day at home.Dont know if we've aclimatised but its a great heat range.Havnt had A/C on for about a month now.
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FollowupID: 431279

Follow Up By: Don from Fitch Fuel Catalyst Australia Pty Ltd - Monday, May 29, 2006 at 18:58

Monday, May 29, 2006 at 18:58
This From BILLS, A letter recieved from RELIABLE DIESEL SERVICE as written make of it as you will. I quote as follows.
Attention BILL,
As with your pump your daughters 1hzpump was spotlessleyclean inside,something we dont see when these pumps have such high klms on them.

The usual parts are worn such as the throttle shaft,drive shaft and head&rotar assembly,the rest of the internals are so clean they look like new??

Unless you are using some type of fuel unknown to others I am starting to believe that the fitch somhow cleans any residue as it works oner a period of time.

I would like to wish you luck in sales of these fitches, however cannot help wondering if this may be diong us out of a job,seeing as yours and your daughters cars acheived such high klms before ever requiring fuel pump repairs

With regards Ralph Stratten
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FollowupID: 431524

Reply By: Member - Axle - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 16:37

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 16:37
Hi Willem

Have been around earthmoving equiptment for years and have never seen an injector pump just kark it ,might run rough blow clouds of smoke but will keep going!. The only thing that would stop it would probably be drive failure, but thats a seldom issue. the thing that is more vunerable and will stop you dead is the lift pump. just my 2c worth!

Regards Axle.
AnswerID: 175207

Follow Up By: Willem - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 18:05

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 18:05
Thanks Axle .........appreciate you 2c worth :-)
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FollowupID: 431294

Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 17:34

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 17:34
Willie, I guess you mean the actual injector pump....that REALLY expensive b@stard that sits near the power steering box.......

But, does the Patrol have another pump down the rear end to push fuel from the tank to the filter? I've often wondered this...If so, where is it located (in the tank; I don't think so?) and what is it's life expectancy?

Cheers

Roachie
AnswerID: 175215

Follow Up By: Willem - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 18:14

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 18:14
Bill

I guess I do......... " any warning signs if an injector pump is about to kark it.?"....LOL

Must go and look to see if there is another rear pump. Not sure. Will report back

Cheers
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FollowupID: 431295

Follow Up By: Willem - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 18:30

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 18:30
Bill

No the GQ does not have a fuel pump in the rear. Only the injector pump.
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FollowupID: 431297

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 18:47

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 18:47
Willem.

I would be surprised if the fuel is drawn from the tank by the injector pump only?

Some Mitsubishi diesels have a lift pump incorporated at the rear of the injector pump.! Dont want to give you the chits I could be wrong , but its handy to know for sure some times.

I"LL shut up now.

Cheers Axle.
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FollowupID: 431304

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 18:47

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 18:47
Roachie

I would have thought a Nissan like most other diesels have a lift pump to keep the injector pump primed around 30psi

Most new distributor type injection systems these pump are built in to the main injector pumps housing

this is why fitting to restrictive fuel filter before the pump when it starts to block up it may cause the lift pump to cavitate allowing metal to brake away form the vane tips and enter the main injector plungers causing them ti stick and jam up and then loose the ability to pump fuel..

Just somthing to think about

Richard
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FollowupID: 431305

Follow Up By: Redeye - Monday, May 29, 2006 at 07:09

Monday, May 29, 2006 at 07:09
Hi all

I have just installed a small electric pump on my Nissan GU (190,000 Km) just near the tank. There is no pump on the Nissan which means the injector pump has to pull the fuel all the way from the tank through the filter to the motor.

I have noted that the vehicle starts first go now every time. I suspect there was some form of drain back when the engine was not running meaning I had to crank the motor over excessively to start on occasions.

Also noted that some flat spots have disappeared.

Local mechanic tells me he does this a lot to older vehicles Nissan and Toyota which saves $$$$ in reconditioning the fuel pump at $80 for the electric pump.

Great investment

Redeye
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FollowupID: 431372

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, May 29, 2006 at 11:04

Monday, May 29, 2006 at 11:04
G'day Redeye,

Do you have any info on the brand of the pump you installed and how it's wired-up please?

Thanks

Roachie
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FollowupID: 431408

Follow Up By: Redeye - Monday, May 29, 2006 at 13:25

Monday, May 29, 2006 at 13:25
Hi Roachie,

The pump is.
FACET
Automotive Electric fuel pump
Listed 574A.

It is low pressure (3-6Lbs) low volume and reminds me of the days when I had a Cooper "S" with the ticking.

It is wired directly from the power side reversing light switch on the gearbox. This switch only has power when the ignition is turned on.

The other advantage to the pump is no more priming after replacing the fuel filter.

There is a picture on this site
Site Link

Regards

Garry

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FollowupID: 431437

Reply By: Footloose - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 17:58

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 17:58
Willem, my pump went (under warrenty thank goodness). Symptoms were excessive smoke under load...like a blown petrol motor, blue and black smoke, no grunt at all, especially on hills, and when shutting off it overan a bit, like an out of tune petrol.
I initially thought injectors, had new ones put in but no change.
Turned out to be a nut in the pump that had become loose, enabling everything (timing etc) to get out of whack.
Toyota service rekkoned that it just didn' happen, that I must have been fiddling with it. I soon set them straight.
OK where has it been, musta been somewhere really rough. The highway.
Oh dear, looks like we cant get you to pay for it eh ? Too bad.
That's when I tweaked to what they were trying to get away with...about 3 grand !!
No way Hozaay !!
AnswerID: 175218

Reply By: Old Scalyback & denny - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 18:39

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 18:39
evening gentlemen and ladies of the opposite sex
had a look at the gu book and the only pump under the truck is the transfer pump sub to main tank
that is why it is such a mongrel job to hand prime when you change the fuel filter

steve
AnswerID: 175226

Follow Up By: Brid from Cost Effective Maintenance - Monday, May 29, 2006 at 11:22

Monday, May 29, 2006 at 11:22
Steve

Yeh, hand priming can be a pain all right.

The easy way, so long as you can manage it on your vehicle, is to just fill the new filter with diesel to the brim, and then carefully spin it on the filter head....no air, no priming and starts instantly.

Regards

Brid
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FollowupID: 431413

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, May 29, 2006 at 21:46

Monday, May 29, 2006 at 21:46
Steve,
I can usually get mine primed up with about 12 pumps of the primer after a filter change. I just leave the outlet hose off the primer and hold a small softdrink bottle under the outlet nozzle, pump about 12 times until diesel starts to come out and then whack the hose back on. It's impossible to prime the thing if all the hoses are done up (but I'm guessing that you already know that...hahaha).

Cheers mate

Roachie
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FollowupID: 431585

Reply By: Peter 2 - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 18:51

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 18:51
Willem the inline injector pumps on the old diesels, like your TD42 and the toyota 2H will usually outlast the actual engine as long as they haven't been subjected to dirty fuel, water in the fuel etc or the engine oil change periods have been neglected.
The inline pumps are cooled and lubricated by engine oil from the sump, they usually incorporate a mechanical lift pump on the inlet side, the Toyota ones have a brass gauze filter on the banjo where the fuel line comes from the tank, not sure about the nissan ones.
The later engines have rotary pumps which look a bit like a distributor on a petrol engine, they do wear out as they are cooled and lubricated by the fuel so any restrictions which cause low fuel flow (dirty filters, low quality fuel, fuel with low lubricity like low sulphur diesel) or cause the fuel to stop (like when people run their Toyota's till the engine coughs before changing tanks) lead to premature wear which causes hard hot starting and poor performance.
that is part of the reason that older engines aren't suited to low sulphur fuel, the pump internals are 'softer' which can't handle the low lubricity.
But as has been said they will rarely just kark it unless the drive from the engine is broken. there will be symptoms of impending doom ;-)
Peter
1996 Oka Motorhome

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AnswerID: 175229

Follow Up By: Willem - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 19:13

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 19:13
Thanks Peter.

My reason behind the question is

1. The truck has 314,000 on the clock
2. I am departing to some really remote areas soon.

I bought the truck at 260,000km. The service book said it had been serviced regularly but the last 100,000km the service book was not filled in every time.

I have now done 54,000km with it of which some were very hard treks. I change the oil and filters every 5000km. I use Flash Lube fuel additive with every tank full and I have had no water or filter problems with the vehicle. The truck runs very sweetly and has adquate power for an 85kw engine. It blows a little black smoke when towing uphill or accellerating but not continuously.

Yes, I have heard of injector problems with other vehicles when people run out of fuel. They are too lazy to bleed the system and crank immediately after refuelling and this buggers the injector pump. This is especially prevalent with newer diesels so I am told.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 431316

Reply By: Footloose - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 19:28

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 19:28
Willem, you will know when somethings wrong. The following vehicles occupants wont be able to breathe or see !!! :))))))))
AnswerID: 175241

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 21:03

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 21:03
Thats the most fair dinkum & funniest reply for this post so far!!!

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FollowupID: 431342

Follow Up By: Footloose - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 21:07

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 21:07
Fair dinkum, funny ...yep, I'm that sort of guy.......sadly :))
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FollowupID: 431344

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 19:44

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 19:44
Willem,

I thought the injectors were a 70-80,000km item on the Patrols - a lot of them seem to blow smoke up hills.
Wouldn't worry about the pump.
AnswerID: 175244

Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 20:03

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 20:03
The last time my injectors were touched was under warranty (about 70 - 80 thous K's) but now have over 260 on the clock and no signs of smoke even when towing. It has had a 5k service interval it's entire life and I attribute the relatively trouble free running to it's service history. I have not been subjected to crap fuel (touch wood) which would also help the injectors cause. No fuel additives or anything added ever to any tank of fuel.
Maybe I have just been lucky, and I am now in for it LOL, I hope not though.

Cheers, Trevor.
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FollowupID: 431326

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 20:41

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 20:41
Hi Trevor,
sounds like you do a heap of km's - I reckon that must help - plenty of fresh fuel going thru the injectors, and sounds like you must do long runs.
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FollowupID: 431338

Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 20:49

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 20:49
Yeah plenty of Bris - Melb and Bris - Cairns work.
Just starting to slow down a little now, used to do up to 85K/year. Back down under 50K/year now so the truck should last a little while longer......I HOPE.

Cheers Trevor.
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FollowupID: 431340

Follow Up By: Willem - Monday, May 29, 2006 at 09:05

Monday, May 29, 2006 at 09:05
Phil

I could not find any mention of the igjectors service in the servicing schedule of my Greogory's

Cheers
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FollowupID: 431391

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, May 29, 2006 at 13:13

Monday, May 29, 2006 at 13:13
Thats right Willem. They are not a "regular" item. Its a case of doing them when they need doing. Some vehicles (usually indirect injection) need them done more often than others (usually direct injection).
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FollowupID: 431434

Reply By: Peter 2 - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 21:12

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 21:12
A side note that might be of interest to those who have trouble bleeding the fuel system on their diesels (mainly those with old style inline injector pumps) I came across a US defence forces bulletin to personnel who have had to change filters on Humvee's in the field.
Basically they use a handheld vacuum pump to suck the fuel through from the tank to the outlet of the filter, reconnect the line to the inlector pump (which is still full of fuel) and then start it up.
I bought one from the Aussie distributors and it works a treat, no spillage and very easy to do, the old Humvee fires right up and runs perfectly with no hiccups.
The pump is one that is used for oil sampling so is freely available.
The details are Easy-Vac Vampire pump
website is www.easyvac.com/index2.html
the model is 38x from memory and the aussie distributor is in SA, i've lost the details but contact the US on email and they will send you the details if interested.
Peter
1996 Oka Motorhome

Member
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AnswerID: 175267

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 21:44

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 21:44
Hi Peter

You don't suck the fuel, you create a partial vacuumand Atmospheric pressure supplies this push.

Richard
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FollowupID: 431351

Follow Up By: Peter 2 - Monday, May 29, 2006 at 17:33

Monday, May 29, 2006 at 17:33
Yes I know that but thought it best to keep it simple for the unwashed ;-))
Peter
1996 Oka Motorhome

Member
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FollowupID: 431499

Reply By: Flash - Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 23:42

Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 23:42
Roachie and others who've queried it....
Patrols and many other makes do not have a pump further down the line and just rely on the pump on the engine.
If you put extra restriction on the fuel line such as an extra filter, it's a good idea to fit a simple electric fuel pump back at the tank. I did this when I fitted a Frantz fuel filter many years ago and it makes it so easy to bleed the system after filter changes etc ....Simply turn on the ignition and.....wait. In no time it has bled the system and the engine will start first try. Too easy! Don't know why they don't fit them from the factory!
And BTW my injectors have done over 200,000klms and are still good, no smoke and good spray pattern etc. (The extra fuel filter helps as it filters so well.)
AnswerID: 175282

Follow Up By: fnqcairns - Monday, May 29, 2006 at 21:20

Monday, May 29, 2006 at 21:20
Flash how many element is your Frantz? How many PSI is your pump? I have been very interested in doing the same. Real world info is hard to come by on diesel dunny roll filtering.
The concept is a dam smart one. Any other info that might help would be good if you have the time.

cheers fnq
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FollowupID: 431569

Follow Up By: Flash - Monday, May 29, 2006 at 23:04

Monday, May 29, 2006 at 23:04
It's a one element roll on the fuel- does an incredible job of filtering.
The electric pump was about $75 ??, "Facet" brand model FEP12SV(made in USA) and output from memory about 5 psi.; installed back near the tank, and wired to the ignition.
I put the Frantz just before the factory filter, and find I only need to change it every few years.
You have to see the element (ie:used) which comes out to believe it.
On top, there's metal, chunks of wax or something and every type of rubbish and gunk you can imagine, usually very dark brown to almost black.
By half way down the roll, it just a lovely clean, honey colour- beautifull.
Works a treat and by filtering so well I believe it extends the life of both pump AND injectors, (not to mention factory filter which I replace only every five years or so as a precaution, probably completely unnecessary).
I highly recommend it.
Cheers
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FollowupID: 431599

Follow Up By: fnqcairns - Wednesday, May 31, 2006 at 08:36

Wednesday, May 31, 2006 at 08:36
Thanks very much Flash, I know you were not trying to although you have talked me into it.
I already have a TP oil bypass filter which works a charm, with your 'all good' diesel filtering experience I will also chase up one for the diesel.

Food grade diesel fuel! - nothing is too good for the old girl :)

thanks fnq
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FollowupID: 431882

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