performance chips

Thanks I will hit their site and ask if they can do anything for me

all these extras for extra power still will not give any benefits under 2000revs as the 2.8 ltr and 3ltr get there power from the turbo which doesnt start working till 2000revs, you get what you pay for, heavy vehicle small donk no low down tourge or power thats why these vehicles are cheaper than the 4.2 patrol and cruiser. Col

Best thing about a 2.8 is they are CHEAP!

Get one toss the engine as far as it will go and chuck in a TD42 or Something with some neddies.

Then you have a cheap 4.2 GU!

Colin

Not really true - if you fit a small enough turbo you'll have boost from damn near idle speed - but the price is it will rip off all your top end so you have no overtaking power (which with the diesel you're already short on!).

Normally on a petrol engine I'd say increase compression and if necessary decrease turbo boost. That gives you more bottom end power and if you need to then wind back the power at the top end if it's putting too much strain on, or else keep it as a bonus.

Fit a supercharger and the standard turbocharger - problem solved!

Nahh - you can get the 2.8 litre stretched out a bit if you want to get more grunt, or just buy one and if you find it too much of a problem buy a bigger engine.

You may get a few more ponies by getting the motor, injectors and pump fiddled with - this should be enough to assist. A custom pipe may also help. You might get 30% more power with turbo and intercooler fiddles (with pipe) but you'll be looking at a couple a grand to do it. However there may be issues to do with overheating from the extra power - a lot of people have these issues with turbo mods or installing aftermarket turbo kits.

Make sure you get a big intercooler and look after airflow and cooling. Even without any other mods you can get up to 10% better power from keeping the intake air temperature cooler (and thus higher oxygen density in the air intake).

Relying on low intake temperatures without doing something to ensure it on an offroad vehicle is playing russian roulette with your engine. Don't just expect that the factory built 30-40% tolerance in the system - most likely they didn't. (check the threads on Safari Turbos).


For $10000 less you expect it not to be as good - live with it - even after spending some money to hot it up. You aint gonna make all of the power back without spending most of the money. Get what power you can back with the money you can - you'll probably find you can get 60-70% of the power for about $3000 but getting that last bit will cost you a fortune...

Graig - I'm very pleased with the car, it is so much car for the money. It rides so nice and is hard to get stuck. Best of all it's a six! I recently did a Sahara desert rally on my bike but noticed that most of the big 4x4's were Patrols or Land Rovers - no Pajero's, Land Cruisers, Discoveries etc.Even the fast response ambulances were 2.8 Patrols. On speeking to a driver he said he bought a chip fron Nissan in Japan(it's this that started me thinking I need more power) that gave significant power hike above 3000rpm(where my car is very flat). It was also fitted with a locking dif on the front axle as well as back and had some neat steel bumpers from Oz(Old Man Emu or something whoever he is) I asked about cooling and he said he had no probs(he had a snorkel and special airbox to keep sand out but thats all)-very good considering that you grind away in 1st gear all day long. I'm going to keep mine what ever happens. I've done 100,000 totaly reliable km's in her and she still has a feeling of solidity and strengh

sorry viagra but you will not get a turbo no matter how small to start giving power from idle as they need exhaust to start spinning so at low revs no exhaust no boost. The 2.8 is a good reliable donk its only downfall is it is in a heavy vehicle, but there are many happy owners out there. Col

Once you have the engine running you have exhaust pressure as the engine has to expend it's waste gasses through the exhaust - even at idle speed.

These gases must therefore pass through the turbine to escape - there's no other exhaust path other than out through the turbo.

So far all logical and you all agree with me?????

As the air must pass through the turbo, even at idle speed any turbo is forced to turn and is thus working - however inefficiently. Still agree?

The reason why most turbochargers don't generate power at or near idle is that the size of the turbine determines it's weight and inertia. A larger turbine needs more exhaust pressure to be able to spin at it's required rpm, hence will start to generate power higher up the rev range, and generate nothing down low. A smaller turbine will generate power at lower exhaust pressure due to the lower inertia.

Additionally to it's size, a turbo has an efficiency band depending on the weight (different materials), impellor design, bearing types etc. For most turbos this is anywhere from 60,000 rpm to as much as 200,000 rpm depending on size, materials used impellor design etc etc....

So why don't we all fit tiny turbos so they work at idle?

The actual power increase of the turbo is determined by the speed the turbo spins at and the volume of air displaced by the turbine due to size and design of the fins. Hence a larger turbo can generate more "extra" power - this is why we use bigger ones and live with the trade off of now lower end power. Also putting a very small turbo on requires very small exhaust creating enormous flow restriction - also not good for horsepower.

You could put say a Suzuki Cappacino turbo (designed for a 660cc engine with low rpm boost in mind - maximum horsepower for engine class in Japan is 48kw) on your Patrol and it would generate it's maximum power boost to your engine at damn near idle speed. It might even improve performance from idle to 1500 or 2000 rpm.

Remember with almost 5 times the capacity you will generate approximately 5 times the exhaust pressure - or another way of looking at it is that you will create the same exhaust pressure at 1/5th the revs. If the Suzuki cappacino is in it's best efficiency range from 3000-6000 rpm on the Suzuki - then it would be in it's best effiency at 600-1200 rpm on your diesel. This again makes pretty obvious sense......

After that point it would be an enormous restriction in your engine's performance - probably cut the top end power of your engine by 50%.

This is why factories and usually owners we don't do it.

However a sensible choice of a slightly smaller turbo (particularly if it's a more efficient later model turbo design) can actually improve top and bottom end power, or at least make the tradeoff for the type of power you want from your vehicle.

The 2.8's turbo is a very old design and a newer, lighter and more efficient turbo could easily improve power everywhere.


Colin - a lot of people misunderstand Turbo and Superchargers - it's not a blanket rule that Superchargers make bottom end power and Turbochargers make top end power. It's often that way, but only because the people fitting them want that kind of power improvement.

well viagra lets get back to the real world and what is practical, turbos need revs to work and depending on the super sharger fitted they start working efficiently from idle, all your theories may be good on paper but not practical as you your self stated. Col

It comes down to usage - if the car is used to tow a big caravan and never gets over 4000 rpm do you really need a turbo that generates peak power at 6000 rpm?

This is turbo sizing for a sports car (New Turbo XXXX - now with 435297kw of power!) not for the use the vehicle is intended.

ANY modifications you make to a vehicle (from fitting a bullbar to putting 33" rubber on it) are a compromise - trading one form of ability off against another. For instance the bullbar makes the car use more fuel (wind resistance and weight) but makes the car more crash resistant.

This is what most of us do. A turbo is just another feature we can modify.

I'm not recommending that you put a Suzuki Cappacino turbo on (unless you've got a 1 litre Suzuki maybe) I'm using it as an example - showing significant boost levels at 400 rpm proves what an outright lie "turbos need heaps of revs to work" is.

However you might find that downgrading a turbo from an old style T3 to a newer style ball bearing T28 might greatly improve your off idle performance without costing you a huge sacrifice in power or economy. In fact it may improve all 3 if your old turbo is very old - like with cars there's been big improvements in turbos in the last 15 years.

Seriously - it is something worth considering if you know what you want your vehicle to do is different than what the factory designed it to do. That's why 90% of us read this forum.........

P.S. Be careful if you do increase boost or performance that you dont warp or crack the alloy head. Not hard apparently.

Absolutely agree with you andrew. We also went from a 5ltr V8 Commodore into a 2.8TD. We drive it for what it is and not what we would really like but can't afford............................

Andew - you're so right

Toak - thank for the reply. Where did you go for the Motson's chip?
How much was it? Can it be fitted by a competant DIY?

MOTSONS WEBSITE

If its just a chip replacement, no fuel pump work etc it should be like changing a fuse....

Motsons, have moved from Wooloongabba to Coopers Plains Brisbane, proberly best to talk to Tony Motson at the Springwood store 07 3208 3245.

All work for these is done at the Coopers Plains store cost $1406 inc, not sure about DIY talk to Tony.

Chip is fitted as an add on, can be removed and original takes over.