GU & I don't like what I see....
Submitted: Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 19:18
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Member - Cocka
The 3lt TD has been somewhat hard to start these past few months & I finally got some time to have a look. It's early '92 model with 83K on the clock (
young for an oiler)
I thought it may have been the glow plugs but the power supply tested OK, so I lifted off the intercooler etc to
test individual plugs. Here is what I have found without the need to remove the glowplugs...
The throttle box body which bolts to the inlet manifold splits from one large inlet apeture into 2 smaller outlets one of which is called the "air control actuator" (aca), the aca port is heavily coated with oil (or fuel) soaked sticky carbon deposit the other inlet port is clean.
This is all on the inlet side which should (IMhumbleO) only exhibit nice clean polished ports, and whilst this aca port is where the heaviest build up is, the intercooler and air pipes from the turbo all show a light oily coating without signs of carbon.
My first reaction is that I might be looking at a burnt out inlet valve which is strange as it usually is the outlets that are prone to burn, maybe some head distortion could be a cause.
Have we got a diesel expert on the panel with an opinion or diagnosis & possible remedy.
I'm just trying to think this through to make sure I get the best answer to what might be an expensive find.
Reply By: Brew69(SA) - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 19:24
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 19:24
A 92 model GU???
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Cocka - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 20:52
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 20:52
CORRECTION ..... Yep it's an '02
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Reply By: Willem - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 19:25
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 19:25
No knowledge of diesels mate but I take it you mean a 2002 model.
Hope it doesnt fall within the range of casualties i.e. 2001/2002....not sure which months.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 19:53
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 19:53
Sorry if my comment sounds terse.....but my advice would be "get rid of it!!" (and I'm a member of the Nissan Mafiosa that Lucy often refers to) hahaha
Seriously, IMHO, these bloody 3L motors simply don't do justice to the proud, reliable
heritage that the word "diesel" usually conjours-up.
Sorry once again; I know my comments are gunna annoy certain of my EO mates; but I call em as I see em.
Cheers
Roachie
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Bill S (NSW) - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 20:36
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 20:36
HI Roachie.Thought you might be interested in this,my 2005 GXL TOYOTA Auto filled at OakFlats NSW driven to
Brisbane via
new england hiway and extras,distance 1,250klms fuel used 135ltrs.On the way
home fuel light on auxillery tank came on at 425klms arrived
home with still a quarter tank of fuel in main tank.
Now back to Nissan my fellow agent in
Brisbane has a New nissan Patrol with a F300 fitted he will put his readings forward for all dissbelievers to rip apart.
Met a couple of explor oz members at the caravanand camping show ,what delightful people they were,will have our product fitted and report their findings for all to see.
Will fill my cruiser after a couple of days at
home and report usage figures from
Brisbane to
home and around.
KIndest regards BILLS
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Follow Up By: Member - Cocka - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 21:13
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 21:13
Tx Roachie,
No problem with your "call". I have put a lot of time into this wagon fitting the personalised bits & pieces, I'm sure you know what I mean.
I really like problem solving and getting a good result. Drives me crazy sometimes, but if it's broke - fix it.
When you do the figure work and include the value of time, the option of a change over can become frantically expensive, so I'm not ready to throw in the towell just yet.
Maybe after a few phone calls tomorrow we will be a bit closer to the truth.
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 21:26
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 21:26
If it is broke, fix it. If ain't broke, get rid of it before it is broke.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 07:15
Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 07:15
x3 what ian H said..
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 07:56
Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 07:56
i agree with roachie... wonder when he will see the light and get a toyota too?
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 08:03
Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 08:03
See the light - wouldnt that light be candle light? He already see's low beam HID's.. when he flicks to high beam and gets a 4.2 all will be
well
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Reply By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 20:25
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 20:25
Oil in the inlet side of a turbo engine such as the patrol is VERY normal.
Your difficult starting will be unrelated in my experience.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Cocka - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 21:17
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 21:17
Thanks for the reassurance David. I like it to make sense though.... there has to be a reason.
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Reply By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 21:24
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 21:24
No poblem
I agree, you need to find out why it is difficult to start. I can't see what you have found, but my advise is don't be too worried about oil in the inlet side though, this is very normal.
David
AnswerID:
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Reply By: ACDC - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 21:24
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 21:24
Hey Cocka,
Does it use any coolant,or blow white smoke when it fires up?
Apart from hard starting does it run ok power wise and economy wise?.
Once started is it right for the rest of the day?
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Cocka - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 21:44
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 21:44
Does it use any coolant, (No) or blow white smoke when it fires up? (Blue sometimes on a first in day start))
Apart from hard starting does it run ok power wise (Yes, except I have no means of comparison) and economy wise? (Yes)
Once started is it right for the rest of the day? (Beautiful)
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Follow Up By: ACDC - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 22:05
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 22:05
OK,
Has the engine light ever come on?
Has it been checked for fault codes?
Has the air flow sensor ever been replaced?
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Follow Up By: Member - Cocka - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 09:30
Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 09:30
I am really appreciative of the info that has come through on this thread bar the useless negatives from the usual "throw in the towel cowboys". At least I had a good nights sleep knowing that the possibility of doing battle with the honchos at HO Nissan was less of a reality.
Thanks for the ongoing reassurances fellas...... it's going to be an interesting day with my scon under the bonnet.
Has the engine light ever come on? NO
Has it been checked for fault codes? NO.... I do most of my own
services but am unable to do the diagnostic electronic stuff.
Has the air flow sensor ever been replaced? NO
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Follow Up By: ACDC - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 18:14
Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 18:14
Cocka,
As all ready suggested try hand priming the pump in the morning and try starting it.
It sounds like fuel problem.
By the way if it's never had an airflow sensor change it! this does not affect starting put they do run better,also block egr valve off with stainless plate available from various turbo suppliers these give trouble as
well even Nissan suggested to a friend
the block it off.
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Reply By: Motherhen - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 22:07
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 22:07
Glow plugs? With the Cruisers when they got hard to start replacing the glow plugs solved it. Don't know about the Patrol 3 ltr -
mine is over 100,000 and still starts like a charm.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: 120scruiser (NSW) - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 22:12
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 22:12
Hi Cocka
I see quite alot of GU 3 litres come through my workshop and all vary speedo readings from 50 000 to 150 000. All have oil in the inlet tubes, intercooler and piping. I say it comes from partly the turbo and mostly the PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system. It is normal and will have no detrimental effect on hard starting.
I would have an ECU faul code extraction done. Quite simple on the GU. It is done under the dash, where there is a diagnostic terminal. Without the codes I won't go anyfurther but pay close attention to the Mass Air Flow Metre located near the air filter as these give all sorts of probs.
Regards
120scruiser
AnswerID:
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Reply By: rv129 - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 23:21
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 23:21
Hi cocka
Oil in the intake on any small to medium diesel is normal when the crankcase vents into the intake manifold. The only way to
check glow plugs in the engine is to remove bridging terminal and
test with ohm meter. Best way is to remove and connect across a battery. The tip should glow within a second or two. Make sure u earth the main large thread and supply power to the top thread. You may even spot some damage when u pull them out such as a burnt tip.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: geocacher (djcache) - Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 23:22
Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 at 23:22
Against my better judgement I replaced a set of glow plugs at the start of winter chasing a hard to start problem. They all metered okay and I wasn't convinced but it was somewhere to start.
In the end there was a pinhole in the fuel line on the engine side of the fuel filter - near where the brass fitting on the heat exchanger for the shower had been rubbing on it under torque twist or vibration.... doh!
$100 worth of glow plugs later and a bit of $5 fuel line fixed the problem.
Must have been allowing fuel to bleed back toward the tank, and explained why it was harder to start the longer it had been off.
The diesel tech I spoke to here put me on the right track. He suggested priming the system using the pump on top of the filter - pump it til it goes hard - and then start it.
I did that and it started first kick like it used to. I could even see just by pressurising it where the fuel weep was. So I figured I was onto the problem before I turned the key - and I was right.
Now I have a perfectly good spare set of GP's.
Dave
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: hl - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 06:54
Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 06:54
Hi,
I think that is very likely. I had a similar problem where it would take a long time to start first time in the morning, but subsequent starts were normal. It turned out to be the little o-ring in the bottom of the fuel filter (water sensosr). It had cracked and let some fuel drain overnight (very little, actually) but that was enough to make it hard to start.
Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Hugh (WA) - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 00:58
Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 00:58
G'day Cocka,
I think you may find that this is related to EGR which is ported to the manifold post EGR valve. EGR deposits are similar to what you have described. The ZD30 EGR pipe connects to the manifold adjacent the throttle body mounting face and seems to be closest to the front port. The picture below is extract from manual.
!MPG:5!
Regards,
Hugh
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Redeye - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 07:03
Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 07:03
Cocka
I had trouble starting my GU 3 litre. Solved the problem by installing an electric pump near the fuel tank.
The pump is.
FACET
Automotive Electric fuel pump
Listed 574A.
It is low pressure (3-6Lbs) low volume and reminds me of the days when I had a Cooper "S" with the ticking.
It is wired directly from the power side reversing light switch on the gearbox. This switch only has power when the ignition is turned on.
The other advantage to the pump is no more priming after replacing the fuel filter.
Regards
Redeye
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 08:34
Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 08:34
I've just bdone exactly the same thing....great result.......and I got the idea from you, Redeye, ol' mate....Tah muchly!!!! ;-))
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Follow Up By: Member - Cocka - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 09:53
Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 09:53
Hmmmmm.... I like the sound of this one. Another little back up fiddly bit that I can hang on the wagon with a good purpose.
I will still check the GPs whilst I have gone this far though.
My best back up has to be the oil and temp audible alarm system. If the oil pressure drops to activate the switch or the temp rises above normal (this can be adjusted to suit ambient) I get a warning buzzer that goes off. It means that I can concentrate
on the road ahead and the expanses of passing scenery a lot more.
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Follow Up By: hl - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 13:47
Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 13:47
Hi,
I wouldn't bother with that pump. If the ZD30 doesn't start very easy, something is amiss and having that pump would just mask another problem such as air getting in and fuel draining back. By the way, you can disconnect the airflow meter and it won't make the slightest difference the way the car starts (it will be very gutless to drive though, and it will set an error code).
It is very easy to read the codes by inserting a link in the connector under the dash. The
Gregory's manual has all the detail. Be warned though, it is quite easy to erase any stored codes if you do things out of sequence.
Lastly, if your engine check light has not come on, it is unlikely that any codes are stored.
Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Cocka - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 18:23
Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 18:23
PROGRESS UPDATE to enlighten those who have contributed valuable time to my concerns.
Time was a bit disorganised today with my wagon off the road and SWMBO claiming her (due) rights to the car. I was unable to find a tube spanner amongst my collection that would fit the glo plugs & the extended sockets were not quite long enough to reach the shoulders of the nuts to remove the plugs from their orifice.
Finally down to the local tool
shop for a 12mm tube spanner.........cost $9.oo
Glo plug 1 removed and tested - Failed
Glo plug 2 removed and tested - Failed + burnt tip
Glo plug 3 removed and tested - Failed
Glo plug 4 remains intested - grand child babysitting got in the way
After market GPs seem unavailable, pitty - cost to replace with dealer originals ...... $70.oo each
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 18:59
Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 18:59
Cocka,
I reckon if you can fix the problem for under $300 you'll get a bargain. Hope all is well for the upcoming trip north.
Hocka.
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Follow Up By: Member - Cocka - Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 20:30
Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 at 20:30
Tx Hocka
Any chance of seeing your (proposed) itinerary. We might find time to swap some yarns or an Ozzo, or both.
Cheers mate & tight lines
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