Uni filters

Submitted: Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 11:27
ThreadID: 34952 Views:3199 Replies:6 FollowUps:19
This Thread has been Archived
Hi,
I own an 80 series TD and am considering the purchase of a pre filter, either a donaldson or uni filter. I recently saw a uni filter package that included 3 filters and oiling kit etc that inserts into the snorkel tube. The package cost about $70 and are obviously cheaper than the Donaldsons. Are these any good? Should I stick with a Donaldson and if so what size should I get? Or are they all a load of.......! I would only be using them on dusty trips and remove them when driving around town.

Cheers
Grunt
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Member - qld_bushpig - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 11:36

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 11:36
I contacted the Donaldson rep in Brissy and he said that Donaldsons were designed for slow moving earth moving equipment and suggested that i should not put one on my Hilux, said it would not work.

hope this helps.

Cheers
jack
AnswerID: 178603

Follow Up By: Member - qld_bushpig - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 11:37

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 11:37
I contacted detroit diesel in Brissy and they gave me the reps number.
0
FollowupID: 434808

Reply By: Mr Fawlty - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 11:43

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 11:43
Careful here... My experience has been with any of the oiled after market filters that minute oil droplets can bugger up sensors in the induction manifolds of the engine and cause faults to show that are not really faults at all if you get what I am waffling about...Especially prevalant in High Tech engines....
AnswerID: 178606

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 12:44

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 12:44
Which vehicle did you experience this on? I've never had an engine light come on with the surf - ever. I've been running a Unifilter for 3 years on it.
0
FollowupID: 434817

Follow Up By: Rosco - Qld - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 15:31

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 15:31
Jeff

Any high tech engine (petrol or diesel) with an air flow meter are supposed to be prone to probs in this regard.

Cheers

0
FollowupID: 434845

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 15:43

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 15:43
G'day Rosco, when you say "high tech" I'm not sure what you are including.

My engine is what I would consider "High Tech", at least it would be as high tech as an 80 series if not more so, and considering an 80 series we are talking about I reckon that's a fair comparison.

My engine has:

Throttle position sensor
Timing control valve
Spill control valve
VSV for intake constrictor control
Water Temp sensor
Fuel Temp sensor
Intake air temp sensor
Turbo pressure sensor
Engine speed sensor
Crank shaft position sensor
Injection pump correction resister
First gear position sensor
Engine ECU
Gearbox ECU
4wd Control ECU

Just to name a few, but it does not have an "air flow" sensor. Does this make it low tech?

I've still never heard any vehicles other than 3.0L ZD30 patrols with air flow sensor problems, and even though Nissan started throwing oiled air filters around as an excuse, we had two ZD30 patrols at work that both had failing air flow sensors (one twice!) and they ran Nissan filters. I belive that was just another Nissan excuse for a poorly prepared engine and components from Nissan.
0
FollowupID: 434847

Follow Up By: Rosco - Qld - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 16:10

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 16:10
Yep Jeff

Sounds pretty high tech to me .. Most of the gear you mention I've only vaguely heard of. But then again I don't know mt ar$e from my elbow about engines in general.

I was mostly referring to engines with both ECU and air flow meter, which seems to cover pretty well all these days.

Also the balance of the link you posted doesn't appear to give K&N and Uni generic type filters a very good rap against more conventional paper elements.

Site Link

Cheers
0
FollowupID: 434853

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 16:17

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 16:17
Deffinatly not good for K&N (the cotton type). The uni filter you can read both ways. There are paper filters better and worse in most areas compared to the uni. It would be interesting to see how the Ryco or Auto1 type generic filters compared, as that's what most people here are probally running. I know I don't spend the $$$ on AC Delco or genuine toyota filters.

From what I make of the study the uni filters are about average, to good if you keep them clean. I've never used a uni on the premis that it is "better" in air flow or filtering than any other type, I reckon they are just a good product to keep your servicing costs down and they work as good as an average paper filter. So instead of spending $60-$70 on a filter everytime I got through the pines and clog the crapper out of it with grey sand, I spent $65 ONCE and just keep re-using it.
0
FollowupID: 434856

Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 12:05

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 12:05
I have an 8" Donaldson precleaner that fits on the top of my Safari snorkel (3" opening) which I don't use anymore. I used to take it on trips where I knew there was gunna be a lot of dust, but got sick of changing it over with the normal ram head. I believe it does restrict the air-intake at highway speeds, but okay for tooling around at up to say 60k/h on dusty dirt tracks etc.

If you're interested you can have mine for $25- + postage.

I've gone away from Uni filter too as I was concerned that small particles of foam could separate from the filter and buggar-up my turbo. Now use paper filter again.

Cheers

Roachie
AnswerID: 178611

Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 19:27

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 19:27
Yes Roachie, I also have been told to stick to the paper filter type because of the foam particles hitting the turbo rotor.
0
FollowupID: 434888

Follow Up By: Joombi - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 20:40

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 20:40
Same here & I was also told that the uni/finer filters require a lot more attention than a paper one & have to be cleaned (Washed in petrol & re-oiled) every day in very dusty stiuations to maintain air flow. I'd say It'd be a good idea to clean a paper one every day on the same trip but carrying 2 paper filters, bump or blow out & wash in water, when available, letting dry overnight while using the other.
just my 2 cents worth.
0
FollowupID: 434910

Follow Up By: Grunt Oxn - Friday, Jun 16, 2006 at 12:31

Friday, Jun 16, 2006 at 12:31
Yeh, this is all good info and make sense to me. Thanks.
Grunt
0
FollowupID: 435038

Follow Up By: Gu_Patrol - Friday, Jun 16, 2006 at 16:38

Friday, Jun 16, 2006 at 16:38
The 10" Donaldson precleaner is more suited to the patrols than the 8", or i would like to see if the new type is better still, Donaldson hyflow I think it's called
0
FollowupID: 435095

Reply By: Member - Bruce and Anne - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 12:29

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 12:29
I used an Ini Filter on my MU 3.1 turbo diesel and when I put the snorkel on I put one in the top of it, anyway a couple of days later I found oil leaking from the turbo, the guy who sold me the filter said it would not be it. So I decided to talk to the people at MTQ turbos and was told not to use any oil bathed filter when you have a turbo. took both out and now no leaking of oil, it was ok with one but two. The oil was coming from the breather on the tappet cover which goes back into the turbo.
And I have heard about the sensors as well.
Cheers Bruce
Cheers Bruce
D.Max and Jayco Outback

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 178613

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 12:43

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 12:43
Interesting, I ran a unifilter on my Intercooled 2.8TD Rocky for years with no problems and I've run a Unifilter in the surf which is the 3.0LTD for about 3 years and never had a problem. Personally I can't see how it would make a turbo leak oil?
Did they explain how this works?

I've got just as many sensors in the Surf (if not more) than you'd have on an 80 series TD, never had a problem. I clean and re-oil it every 5k when I change the engine oil, or sooner if I've been driving in dusty conditions.
0
FollowupID: 434815

Follow Up By: Member - Bruce and Anne - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 13:28

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 13:28
The idea of a turbo is to suck more air, so I was told these filters restrict it, so go add another one and see what happens. As I said with one not a big problem two and you've got problems.
Cheers Bruce
D.Max and Jayco Outback

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 434825

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 13:49

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 13:49
Ok, we are talking about two different things here. I am talking about using a Uni filter (as it is an oil based filter). You stated that: "and was told not to use any oil bathed filter when you have a turbo". This is what I was commenting on, I have no experience running a snorkel pre-filter, so I can't comment on the pros and or con's of that.

I would like to know how they damage the turbo, as uni's have been proven to be no less restrictive than some paper filters and turbo diesel engines generally have blowback that would put more oil through the turbo that any oiled filter would.




0
FollowupID: 434826

Reply By: Brid from Cost Effective Maintenance - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 13:17

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 13:17
These oiled filters are quite effective, but that can cause them to block much more readily. When this happens, as the engine tries to suck in air, it can also suck oil from the breather pipe into the manifold, turbo, etc.

Any oil on the air flow meter wire can also cause incorrect readings, I believe.

I tried a replacement element oiled unit on a Discovery a few years ago. I found it a bit of a nuisance with additional servicing. The outer (coarser) foam layer also deteriorated and caused a significant restriction in the finer foam layer...to the point where power loss was quite marked.

After that I adapted a 7" Donaldson cyclone unit (of which I'd fitted several to vehicles in the past), and was very happy...very long element life, and very effective with filtration efficiency.

Best of luck

Regards
Brid
AnswerID: 178618

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 13:53

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 13:53
I think you've hit the nail on the head there, Brid. They are effective, however, you are the type of person who doesn't know what end of the screwdrive to hold onto and/or can't be bothered with a slightly higher maintenace schedule, they are oiled filters probally "aren't you bag baby". You cannot whack them in and forget about them. The uni's are very effective while they are clean(ish) but once they get to a certain level they block very quickly. You need to keep an eye on them and ensure that they are service reguarly IMHO. For me, I've got more time than money, so they are a fantastic option personally.
0
FollowupID: 434828

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 13:55

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 13:55
Geeeessh! I should have proof read that before submitting, SORRY!

IF you are...

screwdriveR

THEN oiled filters...

YOUR bag baby...

serviCED

0
FollowupID: 434829

Follow Up By: Brid from Cost Effective Maintenance - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 14:28

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 14:28
Jeff

Not sure I follow all that in your 2nd follow up..bit amusing!

I don't remember the brand of oiled filter I had, but it was serviced every 10,000km max., and often needed it after my regular Cent Qld run (including 300km of dust). It would have been heaps better had I had a snorkel fitted, I imaging, instead of drawing dusty air in down low.

I have always done my own servicing, and most repairs for many years. I tend to over-service my vehicles, some would say overkill, but it works for me...the only major component failures I've had have been design problems (94 Discovery input shaft, 2001 GU 5th gear spline), and a Fairy overdrive which couldn't handle an Isuzu 4BD1 in a Rangie.

Point is, the assumptions you made are not correct. What I related is my experience with an oiled filter, serviced regularly and exposed to a fair bit of dust. Now whether that filter was a Uni filter, Finer or other, I don't recall. The coarser foam outer certainly degraded, whether this was defective or the normal quality marketed, I am not qualified to say. This is just my experience as reported.

Glad to hear you've had good experiences with it.
0
FollowupID: 434834

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 15:49

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 15:49
Yeah I think we are kind of following each other here, apart from the damage to your's, that sounds a bit strange. I wonder if you're air box get's particulary hot or somthing and it did somthing to the foam element.

You say you used to service every 10k max, that's kinda my point. I'm glad you did it sooner if required, however the oil will tend to settle unevenly on those filters after a certain period of time, that why I would suggest AT A MINIMUM of 5k, I sometimes clean it 2 or 3 times in 5 k as I do a lot of short city work with low km's traveled. They are a high maintence product, you don't buy them to make it easier on yourself, however at $95 for a toyota air filter, I'm quite happy to use 50c worth of turps and 50c worth of filter fix oil a few times extra between services. Besides, if I'm not driving the car, I'm tinkering with it anyway so it's not like it's a chore for me.
0
FollowupID: 434848

Follow Up By: Brid from Cost Effective Maintenance - Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 16:40

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 16:40
Yeah

I guess that's where I found it frustrating...the need to service the oiled filter several times more frequently that the Donaldson, I eventually stuck with. I do higher than average klms, so it made more sense.
0
FollowupID: 434860

Reply By: Member - DOZER- Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 17:18

Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 at 17:18
Grant
Only the petrols and diesels that run an air volume sensor inside the inlet have these problems...yours wont be bothered with oil....here are the facts...oiled foam filters better the fine dust....IF...IF.. you follow directions and oil it properly....they dont flow as much as paper, and need more maintenance, but if keeping dust out is your aim, they are great...had one for years in the filter of my cruiser....i carry a spare outer band that sits in its plastic bag oiled up....i swap it for the dirty one, and clean and oil the old at my leisure.
Be careful with the filters that go inside the snorkel, when they become restricted, they suck into the snorkel and you cant get them back out without alot of trouble.
Seen the foam filter pads that go infront of the air rams, they look ok...but this is what i did...if your interested....i crried a few air conditioning filters with me on my last Innamincka trip, and wrapped them around my ram head with some sticky tape to hold them....easy to pack, use and remove....they caught alot of dust before it got inside the snorkel.
The Donaldson will work well aswell....the last one i had caught dust and water droplets even....but it also reduced the boost in the turbo by 2 psi so they do restrict on the highway.
Andrew
Andrew
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Landcruiser 200 series /100 series 4 alloy rims with tyres and nuts GC

AnswerID: 178647

Follow Up By: Grunt Oxn - Friday, Jun 16, 2006 at 12:41

Friday, Jun 16, 2006 at 12:41
Thanks Andrew. I think at the very least I'l be staying away from the internal snorlel fitted units.
Cheers
Grunt
0
FollowupID: 435039

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)