Nissan GU Auto Hub Locks

Submitted: Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 18:16
ThreadID: 35739 Views:7216 Replies:6 FollowUps:5
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G'day Forum
Not so long ago I was reading a number of opinions in regards to engaging 4wheel drive on the run concerning the auto hubs on the Nissan patrol. I note with interest Roachy's opinion and it seemed feasible, others had different opinions that the auto hubs can be engaged into 4WD on the run (not low range). The other day I took my vehicle for a service and noticed once again that they did not grease the front drive shaft and they informed me that their grease gun is too large to get to the nipples on the front shaft. I commenced to grease these myself and I noticed that when the hubs are in auto the automatic gear box in neutral I could not rotate the front shaft to grease the nipples. I got my wife to pushed the vehicle while I was underneath and noticed that the tailshaft rotated with the back wheel movement yet the front shaft did not rotate, it stayed still. I thought if this was in a free wheeling hub situation then the front shaft should turn with the gearbox in neutral. I also have an old Toyota 60 Series Landcruiser which I have had for 24 years and I checked that with the free wheeling hubs in free the front shaft rotates quite easily with my hand. So without being too stupid I would like it if someone could tell me why I could not turn the front shaft by hand of my Nissan 3 litre turbo automatic Patrol when the gearbox is in neutral and the position of the hubs was in auto. I wonder if Roachy's out there and could put any light on it. Thanks in anticipation
Regards
The Major
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Reply By: Dave from P7OFFROAD Accredited Driver Training - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 20:44

Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 20:44
just to clarify...

What position was the transfer lever in??
AnswerID: 183012

Follow Up By: TheMajor - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 20:51

Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 20:51
Thanks Dave,
The transfer lever was in the 2-wheel drive position, rear wheels, and the gearbox was in neutral and the hubs were in the automatic position (not lock) which I assume would be the same as in the free wheeling position like the manual free-wheeling hubs like my old Toyota. I just can't figure out how the front drive shaft would not rotate in my hand, yet when I move the car it stayed still and only the tailshaft moved as it should do in 2-wheel drive.
Thanks for your reply
Regards The Major
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FollowupID: 439511

Follow Up By: Dave from P7OFFROAD Accredited Driver Training - Wednesday, Jul 12, 2006 at 12:27

Wednesday, Jul 12, 2006 at 12:27
Okay, just chucking this 'out there'...

The only way that the auto hubs ould 'know' to lock is by the front tailshaft recieving drive, spinning, turning the front diff and therefore the hub.

In free wheeling hubs you 'tell' the hub to lock by turning the hub. In auto hubs they essentially 'listen' or 'feel' for when to engage.

In essensce, by turning the tailshaft by hand you are doing the same thing as driving in H4. But instead of the 'drive' coming through the T-case it is coming from you.

Seems to me that this would be normal behaviour of the auto hubs, however i can't fathom why it would happen on some and not others.

Please excuse all of the ' and 's, but i don't want to personify the old Nissan too much...

Cheers

Dave

(Of course I may have misunderstood some part of your original question which would mean that I have provided a quite comprehensive waste of your time...)
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FollowupID: 439664

Reply By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 21:48

Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 21:48
Maybe jack the rear tyres off the ground and see if the front shaft spins when you put it in 'D'. Obviously be very careful, rear tyres just off the ground, and maybe 1 front tyre off the ground. in 2wd, only the rears should turn, in 4 wd the front will. Do you use 4wd often?

Cheers andrew

PS, When under my gu doing the grease thing, I usually get about 1 - 2 turns out of the shaft, then ''click" the hubs lock in and it won't turn anymore.
AnswerID: 183037

Reply By: blown4by - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 22:06

Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 22:06
The reason the front prop shaft stops turning is because the auto lock front hubs are doing just that i.e. locking as they are designed to do when you select 4WD. That is how they are able to engage automatically "on the run" when you select 4WD the front drive shaft rotates and after about one third of a turn of the front prop shaft the hubs engage and stay engaged until you back up about 3 metres as long as you have disengaged 4WD. That way if you want 4WD in reverse they will stay locked. Yeah that grease nipple is a bit harder to get at but you will find the gap between the yokes is a bit bigger at around 3 o'clock so if you come in from the top and hold the flexible line on your grease gun by putting your right arm over the chassis rail it is a bit easier. Sounds like your service mob didn't try too hard and if you paid for a service they should have or if necessary obtain the tools necessary to do the job. Nice of them to let you know too:-(
AnswerID: 183045

Follow Up By: RedGibber - Wednesday, Jul 12, 2006 at 20:15

Wednesday, Jul 12, 2006 at 20:15
Spot on Blown, P7 Dave's remarks are good too!

Cheers
Red
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FollowupID: 439742

Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 22:18

Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 22:18
G'day The Major.............

Not sure I'm the full bottle on this matter after reading what some of the other blokes have said about those bloody auto hubs.

However, before I changed mine over to the manual locking AVMs, I used to note the same issue when trying to grease the front shaft. With gearbox in neutral and front hubs in "auto", it was only possible to turn the front tailshaft about a qurater of a turn or less, before it sort of locked.......it would still turn back the other way a small amount, but you could rotate it to get the nipples facing downwards etc.

I wouldn't have dared to ask my wife to push the 3 tonnes on our gravel driveway, so I used to start the truck, put it in H4 and move it a small amount, check the position again and when I finally had the nipples in the right position, I could switch off and grease the shaft and uni's.

Now, with the AVMs, it's no longer a problem.

I'm now thinking (to use the original shift on the fly feature) that it must be necessary to firstly put the vehicle into H4 with the Patrol stationary, then drive off like that............from then on you may be able to change from H4 to H2 on the move, without any issues and with the hubs still in auto. It's only a problem if you back off the throttle while in H2 as you may not then be able to move back into H4 without stopping again.

The whole system leaves me cold, so I'm happy with the manual locking option that I've chosen to fit. The other added benefit is that I can use low range for backing a trailer etc at very slow speeds and on a concrete/bitumen surface, without any transmission wind-up etc.

Hope this adds to the conversation.

Cheers

Roachie
AnswerID: 183054

Follow Up By: Rokkitt - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 22:45

Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 22:45
Hi,

Well this is of great interest to me, it seems you have described the issue to a "T" - Now what does this mean? as only some GU's seem to be affected - I have posted before on this subject but I do not grease the nipples (mechanic does it all) so I have not noticed the problem as described originally....but Roachie you have described my problem...once 4wd high is selected for the first time while stationary it can then be selected on the move...that is until I drive a while in 2wd, maybe it is dethrottling that causes this - I will test and let you know.

The hardest part for me to get my head around is the fact "not all patrols are affected"

Rod
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FollowupID: 439557

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 22:24

Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 22:24
>> they informed me that their grease gun is too large to get to the nipples on the front shaft.

So they dont inform ANY client of this that gets their car serviced there?? What a $10 grease gun from supercrap wouldnt be a good investment for them?

I would never go near that dealer again if they are that jewish
AnswerID: 183057

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 23:01

Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 at 23:01
I read somewhere a while back that there is a smaller-than usual grease gun head unit you can buy for such tight spots. I've never seen one, but wondering if anybody on here has??
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FollowupID: 439561

Reply By: TheMajor - Thursday, Jul 13, 2006 at 20:02

Thursday, Jul 13, 2006 at 20:02
G'day Lads
Thanks for answering my query. I am sort of with it. What Roachy says is spot on, just that I am sort of confused with the old free-wheeling hubs that I had on my old Toyota and the auto hub technology on the Nissan. I really appreciate all those comments by the forum and I have certainly learnt something from the various comments. They say getting old is FUN but it is not fun when your old memory and brain does not comprehend. It's a Bugger! Thanks for your advice Truckster about the dealer but they didn't actually tell me they didn't grease the front shaft until I asked because I noticed the last time I put my car in for a service that the nipples weren't accessed but I think grease had been wiped on my universal joint nipples to make it appear they had been greased. I noticed a lot of people criticise Nissan for not living up to their expectations, and I certainly agree with a lot of the comments, however, I find the dealers themselves have a lot to answer for with in certain circumstances. My mate and myself now mark components that we now have to be serviced during a major service. Once again, Thanks everyone very much.
Regards The Major
AnswerID: 183392

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