Tips on vacuum sealing food
Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 17:20
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phillowe
Hi There,
I have had a good look through the archives but still have a couple of questions regarding vacuum sealing.
1. How long would you expect meats to last if vacuum sealed, frozen and then placed frozen in the Waeco as a fridge?
2. Has anyone done the same with pre-cooked meals such as stews etc? and how long are these likely to last if kept th same way?
We are only looking at being able to keep these things for a 2 week trip this time around......but would be good to know life expectancy for future, hopefully longer trips.
Thanks
Phil
Reply By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 17:32
Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 17:32
Don't normally freeze the meat before we put it in the Engel on fridge mode.
Just out of the fridge at
home.
Have had meat for up to 5 weeks travelling that way.
Also same with some meals.
If we think we will have a late
camp in a day ro so time while travelling, we usually
cook double the night before and keep the leftovers in the fridge for the next night.
Important though that the bags are not pierced, and we always
check the bags and contents as we open them just in case.
AnswerID:
189151
Reply By: John R (SA) - Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 19:09
Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 19:09
If you've cryovacing the food, freezing it defeats the purpose. It'd be just as to put the food in sealed containers and treating as such.
However if you're trying to combine the storage time of cryovac + freezing, you'll be playing a hazardous game. The effectiveness of vacuum sealing depends entirely on the ability to remove gas from the package. By the time a food is frozen and then defrosted, that vacuum in most cases will be lost and hence render the cryovacing redundant.
I've had no experience with cryovacing pre-cooked meals, but see no reason why it would not work (although I would not expect the life to be as long). Why not give it a try at
home? You could seal half a dozen packages of the same stew, and after a couple of weeks start opening them at weekly intervals. Your nose & stomach will soon tell you how it's survived!
Personally, when I buy a cryovac I put it in the fridge for a month before opening anyway (provided the seal is good), so I'd have no compunction about taking fresh, unfrozen meat on a two week trip. However it's your trip so do what you're happy with.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 19:25
Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 19:25
Post 18578 had lots of info
Especially this one -
"Member - Davoe (WA) posted this followup
DEFINITLY DO NOT KEEP CRYOVACCED MEAT UNREFRIDGERATED.
Sorry to shout but it is sooooooooooooooo important. It is mainly spoilage bacteria like pseudamonis (smelly slimey stuff) that needs air so it lets you know that the meat is off. It is the truly insidious bacteria that grows anaerobically (without air) heard of clostidium botulinum
yea thats botulism. It is for this reason that canned food (same idea as cryovaccing) must be heated for a combination of time and heat sufficient to kill 110% of all clostridium botulinum spores. this bacteria can grow in ideal conditions - no air and no competition from spoilage behavior in cryovacced unrefridgerated meat. This information comes from my experience as a Butcher and Food technologist "
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 20:34
Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 20:34
Wow someone reads my posts!! That goes quadrouple for cooked foods. For this reason i couldnd recomend cryovaccing cooked foods
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 20:56
Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 20:56
Life-and-Death-type messages seem to grab my attention :-)
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Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 20:27
Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 20:27
We did what you propose on one leg of our recetn 14 week trip.
In
Broome, we bought a heap of cryocac meat. Spoke to the butcher and he froze about half of it. We put some of that in the fridge and some in the freezer.
Freezing, then putting in the fridge adds little to the 'shelf life' of the meat as defrosting starts almost immediately. We kept some of the defrosted meat for close to 4 weeks and it was fine. It did help keep the fridge cold and reduce power consumption for a couple of days though.
Tips:
Freezing increases the chance of puncturing a bag by rubbing together during travel. If this happens, you need to use the meat within a couple of days.
Chicken keeps for a much shorter time than beef, lamb or pork. If you cryovac chicken, use it within a couple of weeks. We threw out one pack of chicken as it had started to swell up.
Diced meat, mince etc keeps for a shorter time than whole cuts, but we had no trouble keeping mince for 3 weeks.
Make sure you store the meat at 4 degrees or below for maximum life. Even a few degrees higher will dramatically reduce life.
Overall though, cryovacing is great. Over 14 weeks, we bulk purchased meat just 4 times,
Home,
Katherine,
Broome and
Darwin. All excellent meat and only rejected one pack (chicken).
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 21:02
Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 21:02
I agree with everything Norm has said.
We bought an Orfed cryovac machine this year, haven't looked back - even use it for veggies like pumpkin and corn and coleslaw.
Red meat after 3 weeks at zero degrees in the engel has been perfect. We always use chicken breast fillets in the first week.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: 120scruiser (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 10:01
Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 10:01
Hi Phil
I would be interested to know some details of your cryovacing machine, how much it cost and where did you get it from?
I vacuum pack my food but if the machine is economical enough I may look into purchasing one.
Thanks
120scruiser
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 21:16
Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 21:16
Its an "ORVED, ECO VACUUM PRO" Orved site
Its made in Italy, cost about $300+ from memory, and you can buy cryovac bags for about $30 per 100. We bought it from Master Butchers in
Adelaide.
There is a chinese copy on Ebay. We preferred to pay a bit extra and buy something from a local supplier. Also cold have bought a Sunbeam nodel at the local electrical
shop, but the bags were going to cost a fortune.
I think its good value - at 30c per bag, it beats the $2 per bag the butchers were charging, and we can plan our meals and cryovac them at
home. We've also done cakes, but you need to freeze them solid first otherwise they squash! We have friends who freeze their casseroles etc, and then slip them into a cryovac bag, so they will keep in a fridge.
Cheers
Phil
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: phillowe - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 10:05
Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 10:05
Hi 120scruiser,
I managed to pick up one of the larger sunvbeam machines Site Link actually manufactured by Tilia International. I only paid $40 (RRP $249) and it came with 2 extra boxes of 2 rolls of bags which alone retail for $40 a box. The unit works great and seems to remove all air. The instruction booklet is vailiable for download from the link above.
Hope this helps.
Phil
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 10:17
Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 10:17
The downloadable manual provides a (hopefully) reliable list of how long each type of food will last and whether it needs to be stored in freezer or fridge.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 19:16
Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 19:16
All the vacuum sealers only quote times for meat that is frozen - they won't recommend their use for refrigerated meat
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Reply By: 120scruiser (NSW) - Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 21:33
Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 at 21:33
Hi phillowe
Most people here are talking about cryovacing where as your original question was about vacuum packing.
I vacuum pack meat with a sunbeam machine and over a 4 week trip through the centre I only bought meat at
home and then in
Alice Springs.
Like cryovacing the chicken needs to be used with in a few days but straight cut meats should last around 2 weeks.
One no no I found is don't vacuum pack meat with bones. I find it doesn't look real good after a few days but with straight cuts like steak 2 weeks is fine.
We vacuumed ours and then placed them in the engel. Outside temps were around 40 degrees and we got 2 weeks OK.
With just vacuum packed meat I wouldn't expect to get any longer than 2 weeks. If going away for longer go for cryovacing.
Hope this answers your question
120scruiser
BTW I haven't done pre cooked meals.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: bushcamper - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 09:21
Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 09:21
G'day, what's the difference between cryovacing and vacuum packing?
Cheers
BC
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: 120scruiser (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 10:00
Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 10:00
A vacuum packing machine can be bought from
places like retravision for around $180.00 and extends the life of your food for a couple of weeks.
Where as cryovacing is done usually at the butchers and involves a little more with a machine worth thousands and extends the life of food for much much longer like in excess of six weeks depending on what the food is.
I went for the vacuum packing machine as it is cheap and stops meat juice leaking through the fridge. As most of my trips are up to 3 or 4 nights vacuum packing is the go for me. For the occasional big trip I don't mind spending the money for the butcher to do my meat.
I even vacuum pack my meat for an over night trip just to reduce the risk of leaking meat juice.
I only vacuum packed my meat for a 4 week trip but only banked on it lasting a maximum of 2 weeks.
Hope this helps
120scruiser
FollowupID:
446726
Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 11:19
Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 11:19
Tis the same thing. All cryovacc is is the registered trademark for packing and packaging supplied by the company. It is the same as all pressure washers are reffered to as Gurneys even if they are made by Karcher and pens are reffered to as Biros even if bic made them.
The price difference is because they are big durable comercial quality units capable of working hour after hour - day after day. they also have other features which are rarely used such as gas flushing capabilitys (flushing the 02 out and replacing it with inert gas such as nitrogen to extend life)
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Follow Up By: howie - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 12:14
Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 12:14
coincidentily i bought the sunbeam 550 foodsaver last sat.
i do not know the difference between cryovacc and vacuum, i thought they both do the same, remove the air. please tell me if cryovacc does anything different.
a chef mate of
mine has a machine thats worth thousands but it essentially does the same thing only quicker and automatically.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 13:14
Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 13:14
The small Sunbeam Vacuum Packer costs about $125 at Target
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 22:31
Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 22:31
We priced the cryovac machines - they cost upwards of $3000. They have a vacuum chamber that the complete bag with meat is put into.
The vacuum machine is much simpler and about 10% of the cost. It has a very small vacuum chamber that the end of the bag is put into; the air is sucked out and then heat sealed. The latter is what I've got - ORVED is the brand.
The cost of the bags turned me away from the Sunbeam machine, and we were told the cheaper bags wouldn't work.
FollowupID:
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