Toyota Kluger
Submitted: Tuesday, Sep 05, 2006 at 16:31
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CoastCampa
Hi All
SWMBO has given the verdict that a 7 seater vehicle is required for kiddie transport. We also require the vehicle for caravan towing.
I have recently checked out a mint condition 2nd hand AWD Toyota Kluger(V6). I understand the benefits of such a vehicle lie more in the realm of occasional offroading but primarily around town driving.
As I am a surveyor I have undertaken a fair bit of 4WDing over the years and so am very fond of having low range(which is not in the Kluger) as an option when going off-road.
Can anyone give me
feedback regarding the off-road ability of the Kluger and for that matter the AWD Ford Territory. In particular I would maybe look at doing some beach driving - Noosa North Shore, Fraser Island etc.
Thanks
Campa
Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Sep 05, 2006 at 17:14
Tuesday, Sep 05, 2006 at 17:14
"...AWD Ford Territory. In particular I would maybe look at doing some beach driving - Noosa North Shore, Fraser Island etc...."
Biggest issue would be ground clearance, none of the soft roaders have anything more than about 160-180mm. They also have minimal wheel travel and tyres that are not suited to anything else but road use (too low profile for sand use)
Another issue is that most of the AWD systems overheat in the sand due to the use of viscous clutches, and most (E-W engined versions) actually disconnect the rear drive once you get above a certain wheelspeed (usually 30 km/h)....not really useful to try to get your momentum up on sand.
Could be done, but you really only need one good "stuck" to have things really go pear shaped.
You pretty much said it yourself, what you seems to suit your needs is NOT a softroader, but a proper part time 4WD.
AnswerID:
192971
Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Tuesday, Sep 05, 2006 at 18:13
Tuesday, Sep 05, 2006 at 18:13
. . . . also keep in mind that a Territory uses MORE fuel than the larger Pajero.
FollowupID:
450815
Follow Up By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Wednesday, Sep 06, 2006 at 12:11
Wednesday, Sep 06, 2006 at 12:11
Had a friend who took a 4wd territory to Fraser, stayed at the resort.
Got bogged a few times getting in to the resort. Clearance the problem, plus the traction control brakes the wheels and/or cuts engine power from what I hear. Last thing you want with sand, but great for bitumen or a reasonably firm track. Ended up
parking it and hiring a hilux for the run around the tracks.
And yes, he did drop pressures to 18 psi.
Comment on the Territory. It has a recovery hook that is screwed into the front for a tow point. But it needs to ordered as an extra when purchasing a vehicle. $250.00 I hear. Makes you wonder how serious an offroad vehicle Ford consider the Territory when they do that and not include it as standard.
So where are the recovery points on the Kluger? Rated for a snatch strap? How does the traction control work? Is it mud/sand friendly? I have never checked it out on a Kluger.
Just some thoughts :o)
FollowupID:
450944
Reply By: WDR - Tuesday, Sep 05, 2006 at 18:52
Tuesday, Sep 05, 2006 at 18:52
I have not experienced it but some US drivers in particular have problems in sand because they cannot disengage traction control to allow spinning in sand when stuck.
I have done 90,000 in a 2004 - No problems at all so far - total fuel consumption 13.8L 100K - Yes I record every one. I run it on 98, which is probably not necessary, I just like the performance lift it gives.
Cheap to service (so far)
Make sure the vehicle has the safety pack if it is CVX
There can be delays in transmission - common problem caused (I am told) by the wizz bang electronic 5 speed box (it and motor and platform are from Lexus 330 which has similar problems)
Great car - pity it is so ugly but then my real 4x4 is a Jack so who am I to comment.
Good luck (the territory would send you bankrupt if you tow)
AnswerID:
192989
Follow Up By: CoastCampa - Wednesday, Sep 06, 2006 at 08:42
Wednesday, Sep 06, 2006 at 08:42
WDR
The Kluger we are considering is a 2004 CV (with 7 seats) with 50K on the clock for about $30k.
All of the
feedback from this site so far indicates Softroad and not offroad and as such, being fairly conservative, if we go ahead I will drive it accordingly.
The primary driver would be my wife doing the taxi run and so should suit her from what I gather.
Have you used yours for towing ? We have a Coromal Sillhouette van.
Campa
FollowupID:
450900
Reply By: BravoMan - Tuesday, Sep 05, 2006 at 18:58
Tuesday, Sep 05, 2006 at 18:58
I have to admit to owning a softroader (A Holden Cross6 Ute) - I have my reasons for owning it and not a 'Proper' 4x4. Ground clearance is quoted at around 200mm (unladen) although its approach and departure angle that are the real problems with this particular vehicle.
That said, I've had it on
the beach at Noosa, Including taking it up and down through the first cutting, I've also taken it into the
freshwater campground (and we made it). Though I'm not sure I would have attempted either without the comfort of a proper 4x4 we were travelling in convoy with. I'm not sure I'd even think about taking it to Fraser.
Yes the softroader's are OK for some easy beach work. Just don't expect to be able to get everywhere - or even anywhere - depending on the conditions. :)
AnswerID:
192990
Reply By: Mark Taylor - Tuesday, Sep 05, 2006 at 21:26
Tuesday, Sep 05, 2006 at 21:26
You say you have had experience driving "real 4wd" so you might be surprised whre you can take a Kluger. I bought a new Land Rover in 1974 as a 20 year old and drove it all over Noosa North Shore and Fraser Island. (Most of
the beach vehicles then were buggies and Kombi vans with fat tyres) These past 30 plus years I have owned all manner of 4wd and now have a Hyundai Tucson. With tyre pressures around 18 psi I have driven it all around Fraser Island with no problems. In fact I am going back there next month. I have also driven my Holden Cruze around Noosa North Shore and up to DIP with no problems. Will it go everywhere a "real 4wd" will go. Of course not, but it does go where I want to go and although i always carry recovery gear; so far so good.
If you are expereinced then give it a go. Soft roaders make excellent touring vehicles with their improved handling and often lower fuel consumption.. it just depends how hard you want to go at it.
Cheers
Mark T
AnswerID:
193031
Reply By: Outbacktourer - Tuesday, Sep 05, 2006 at 21:31
Tuesday, Sep 05, 2006 at 21:31
Campa,
We have a Patrol and a Kluger. It's Mum's bus and it's fantastic for that, best we've ever had for sure. And it's been to
the beach, been bogged, got itself out etc. Actually it was pretty good on
the beach. Clearance is pretty good for this class of vehicle but articulation is limited and I suspect this will get you before gearing will. The whole thing is only really only medium duty being based on the Camry wagon platform and car drivetrain. You can expect the same performance towing wise as a normal car albeit with AWD grip. As the Subaru guys know, with careful driving, a good knowledge of your vehicle and it's limitations you can go a long way. The question then becomes how far inside the vehicle's limitations do you like to be?
Formed gravel roads are no problem but I would not want to pound it down a gibber track all day, particularly with the standard tyres.
OT
AnswerID:
193035
Follow Up By: CoastCampa - Wednesday, Sep 06, 2006 at 08:27
Wednesday, Sep 06, 2006 at 08:27
OT
Thanks for the
feedback - the Kluger we are considering is a 2004 CV with about 50K on for around 30k.
It would be primarily a taxi (and occasional caravan tower) and therefore your response was quite helpful.
I will also be purchasing a 4WD work vehicle(HILUX or similar) soon and as such will be using it for any beach work. My state of confusion has only been brought about the fact that the Kluger can go "off-road" and I was interested in it's limitations.
campa
FollowupID:
450896
Reply By: ev700 - Tuesday, Sep 05, 2006 at 22:22
Tuesday, Sep 05, 2006 at 22:22
Campa,
With a family I'd err on the side of caution and get a vehicle with low range. Sounds like you will be carrying some weight and probably would want to be camping as
well as caravanning. You need a margin of safety.
You need to consider the GVM loaded of your chosen van and towbar weight. Remember that the tow vehicle is usually quite loaded as
well when travelling. Try to work
well within the vehicle's limits (as specified by tyhe manufacturer).
We bought a Cruiser (been a terrific fourby) because we have teens and needed the room, but a Pajero could easily have been a good buy if the children were much younger. There are plenty of good second hand Pajeros out there and their off-road ability is under-rated. Good manners in town, but put one of those plastic stick-on film reversing 'mirrors' on the rear window.
Sure softroaders could surprise in good conditions and on the right day, but getting into trouble could strain family relations very quickly and who needs that?
We had a new Kluger accompany us to North Straddie last year and it bogged quickly on the first patch of soft sand despite low pressure in the tyres. Odd watching it transfer torque to one wheel at a time to no useful effect. So happened that the nearest vehicle was an old diesel Pajero which towed it easily into
camp. Owner of the Kluger was very upset because he had been given the impression it could handle all but the difficult stuff.
EV700
AnswerID:
193053
Follow Up By: CoastCampa - Wednesday, Sep 06, 2006 at 08:32
Wednesday, Sep 06, 2006 at 08:32
EV
Thanks for the
feedback.
I can imagine coming off the bitumen at Inskip on Boxing Day bound for Fraser and going about 50m before becoming stuck in the soft dry sand.
From all this response I have decided the Kluger(if we purchase) will be used in a conservative manner.
Campa
FollowupID:
450898
Follow Up By: ev700 - Wednesday, Sep 06, 2006 at 08:47
Wednesday, Sep 06, 2006 at 08:47
Campa
Of course with a van you can base
camp where the roads are good and facilities are available. Do day trips from the base
camp. Easier on the wife that way and you can team up with others.
Have fun.
EV700
FollowupID:
450903
Reply By: CPOCK - Wednesday, Sep 06, 2006 at 10:06
Wednesday, Sep 06, 2006 at 10:06
Campa,
I know where your coming from as I have been there.. Two years ago we ( or she) decided that a seven seater soft roader was the go. Or requirements were mums taxi bush tracks ( fire
trails ect) and towing a camper trailer ( CT). We tried all in this category. The kluger was the goods until at the last minute we got to drive an early release Territory. We drove both on the same day and the Territory won hands down. I have not looked back since. We go camping often both down south and north WA infact in three weeks we are heading up to Broom and beyond for 6 weeks. As for towing... its great and don't let the fuel figures scare you I haven't found them that bad as long as you don't drive it like a hoon...
As for offroadability, they aren't called softroaders for nothing. None of these cars are built for
rock hopping so you just have to realise their limitations, in saying this I have been pleasantly surprised with the territories ability on sand in water and loose surfaces even towing the CT.
I have a friend who went with the Kluger and is relitive happy also. I think it comes down to personal preference.
Thats my 2cents worth..
Cheers,
Brad
AnswerID:
193103
Follow Up By: CoastCampa - Wednesday, Sep 06, 2006 at 11:08
Wednesday, Sep 06, 2006 at 11:08
Brad
Thanks for the
feedback - I'll
check out the Territory as
well.
As we are looking at used then we are governed by what's around to a certain extent.
Our current vehicle is on its last legs - due to an undetected rust problem which is what has brought us around to this point.
What was the major advantage of the Territory over the Kluger in your opinion?
Campa
FollowupID:
450928
Follow Up By: CPOCK - Wednesday, Sep 06, 2006 at 11:53
Wednesday, Sep 06, 2006 at 11:53
Campa,
I felt the handling of the Territory was far better particularly on unsealed roads. The braking system was another big seller for me. I felt the steering was too light on the kluger. These are obviously personal preferences.
I would suggest to get both on to gravel roads to get a true feeling for them
Cheers,
Brad.
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450937