Toyota Kluger

QUOTE: As I am a surveyor I have undertaken a fair bit of 4WDing over the years and so am very fond of having low range ............

You answered your own question fairly well, if you are thinking of beach driving.

Cosidered a Rexton?? Had a look at the Kyron the other day (not 7 seat) and the Saang Yongs seem to have come a long way since the early Musso's.....and the price!!!

"...AWD Ford Territory. In particular I would maybe look at doing some beach driving - Noosa North Shore, Fraser Island etc...."

Biggest issue would be ground clearance, none of the soft roaders have anything more than about 160-180mm. They also have minimal wheel travel and tyres that are not suited to anything else but road use (too low profile for sand use)

Another issue is that most of the AWD systems overheat in the sand due to the use of viscous clutches, and most (E-W engined versions) actually disconnect the rear drive once you get above a certain wheelspeed (usually 30 km/h)....not really useful to try to get your momentum up on sand.

Could be done, but you really only need one good "stuck" to have things really go pear shaped.

You pretty much said it yourself, what you seems to suit your needs is NOT a softroader, but a proper part time 4WD.

I have not experienced it but some US drivers in particular have problems in sand because they cannot disengage traction control to allow spinning in sand when stuck.
I have done 90,000 in a 2004 - No problems at all so far - total fuel consumption 13.8L 100K - Yes I record every one. I run it on 98, which is probably not necessary, I just like the performance lift it gives.
Cheap to service (so far)
Make sure the vehicle has the safety pack if it is CVX
There can be delays in transmission - common problem caused (I am told) by the wizz bang electronic 5 speed box (it and motor and platform are from Lexus 330 which has similar problems)
Great car - pity it is so ugly but then my real 4x4 is a Jack so who am I to comment.

Good luck (the territory would send you bankrupt if you tow)

I have to admit to owning a softroader (A Holden Cross6 Ute) - I have my reasons for owning it and not a 'Proper' 4x4. Ground clearance is quoted at around 200mm (unladen) although its approach and departure angle that are the real problems with this particular vehicle.

That said, I've had it on the beach at Noosa, Including taking it up and down through the first cutting, I've also taken it into the freshwater campground (and we made it). Though I'm not sure I would have attempted either without the comfort of a proper 4x4 we were travelling in convoy with. I'm not sure I'd even think about taking it to Fraser.

Yes the softroader's are OK for some easy beach work. Just don't expect to be able to get everywhere - or even anywhere - depending on the conditions. :)

Towing capability of the Kluger is (from Toyota web site) - with trailer brakes 1500(kg), Without trailer brakes 700 (kg)

Towing capability of the Territory is (from Ford web site) is - with trailer brakes 1600 (kg) with standard tow pack, 2300 (kg) with heavy duty tow pack and without trailer brakes 750 (kg)

A loaded territory (towing) will give fuel figures to make a petrol cruiser or patrol seem economical.

You say you have had experience driving "real 4wd" so you might be surprised whre you can take a Kluger. I bought a new Land Rover in 1974 as a 20 year old and drove it all over Noosa North Shore and Fraser Island. (Most of the beach vehicles then were buggies and Kombi vans with fat tyres) These past 30 plus years I have owned all manner of 4wd and now have a Hyundai Tucson. With tyre pressures around 18 psi I have driven it all around Fraser Island with no problems. In fact I am going back there next month. I have also driven my Holden Cruze around Noosa North Shore and up to DIP with no problems. Will it go everywhere a "real 4wd" will go. Of course not, but it does go where I want to go and although i always carry recovery gear; so far so good.

If you are expereinced then give it a go. Soft roaders make excellent touring vehicles with their improved handling and often lower fuel consumption.. it just depends how hard you want to go at it.

Cheers

Mark T

Campa,

We have a Patrol and a Kluger. It's Mum's bus and it's fantastic for that, best we've ever had for sure. And it's been to the beach, been bogged, got itself out etc. Actually it was pretty good on the beach. Clearance is pretty good for this class of vehicle but articulation is limited and I suspect this will get you before gearing will. The whole thing is only really only medium duty being based on the Camry wagon platform and car drivetrain. You can expect the same performance towing wise as a normal car albeit with AWD grip. As the Subaru guys know, with careful driving, a good knowledge of your vehicle and it's limitations you can go a long way. The question then becomes how far inside the vehicle's limitations do you like to be?

Formed gravel roads are no problem but I would not want to pound it down a gibber track all day, particularly with the standard tyres.

OT

Campa,

With a family I'd err on the side of caution and get a vehicle with low range. Sounds like you will be carrying some weight and probably would want to be camping as well as caravanning. You need a margin of safety.

You need to consider the GVM loaded of your chosen van and towbar weight. Remember that the tow vehicle is usually quite loaded as well when travelling. Try to work well within the vehicle's limits (as specified by tyhe manufacturer).

We bought a Cruiser (been a terrific fourby) because we have teens and needed the room, but a Pajero could easily have been a good buy if the children were much younger. There are plenty of good second hand Pajeros out there and their off-road ability is under-rated. Good manners in town, but put one of those plastic stick-on film reversing 'mirrors' on the rear window.

Sure softroaders could surprise in good conditions and on the right day, but getting into trouble could strain family relations very quickly and who needs that?

We had a new Kluger accompany us to North Straddie last year and it bogged quickly on the first patch of soft sand despite low pressure in the tyres. Odd watching it transfer torque to one wheel at a time to no useful effect. So happened that the nearest vehicle was an old diesel Pajero which towed it easily into camp. Owner of the Kluger was very upset because he had been given the impression it could handle all but the difficult stuff.

EV700

Hi Campa,

The Nissan R51 Pathfinder seats seven, back seats definatley for children though, plus 3000 kg tow limit.

I would recommend the Turbo Diesel manual for economy and perfomance.

Not sure if its in your price range, I have been very happy with mine on and off road.

Good luck on your search

Campa,
I know where your coming from as I have been there.. Two years ago we ( or she) decided that a seven seater soft roader was the go. Or requirements were mums taxi bush tracks ( fire trails ect) and towing a camper trailer ( CT). We tried all in this category. The kluger was the goods until at the last minute we got to drive an early release Territory. We drove both on the same day and the Territory won hands down. I have not looked back since. We go camping often both down south and north WA infact in three weeks we are heading up to Broom and beyond for 6 weeks. As for towing... its great and don't let the fuel figures scare you I haven't found them that bad as long as you don't drive it like a hoon...
As for offroadability, they aren't called softroaders for nothing. None of these cars are built for rock hopping so you just have to realise their limitations, in saying this I have been pleasantly surprised with the territories ability on sand in water and loose surfaces even towing the CT.
I have a friend who went with the Kluger and is relitive happy also. I think it comes down to personal preference.
Thats my 2cents worth..
Cheers,
Brad