When to change gear??

Submitted: Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 16:48
ThreadID: 38666 Views:4290 Replies:17 FollowUps:22
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OK..this may seem a really dumb question- but when do you change gear with a diesel??
Some claim when the valves are jumping out of the head, others when the limiter cuts in...
but seriously..is it a power or torque relationship???
eg..ours has max. power (135kw) at about 4000rpm/ and maximum torque (365Nm) at between 2000 &2500 rpm.
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Reply By: RosscoH - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 17:13

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 17:13
If you need to ask that question why have you got a licence.
AnswerID: 200051

Follow Up By: Troop-a-dour - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 18:57

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 18:57
Ah Rossco
I reckon I had a licence before you were in nappies !!
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Follow Up By: Aandy(WA) - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 21:52

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 21:52
In those days anyone could get a licence - I think that says it all. You can't seriously be telling us that you can't judge the optimum time to change gear in any given situation. Different situations require different driving techniques. Driving for economy around town is vastly different to towing a heavy van through mountains and each will require different gear change times .... so...... you work it out ..... BUT why haven't you worked it out already?????
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 07:48

Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 07:48
I don't want to start an argument on this, so just remember that this is only my opinion.......

What if the guy has been driving petrol cars all his life and now has bought his first diesel??? I remember asking similar questions when I bought my first diesel, 'cos everyone had a different opinion...... eventually I took everyones advice on board and worked it out from there.

Remember there ain't no such thing as stupid questions.... only stupid answers!

Just my opinion

Cheers

Brian

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Follow Up By: Ian from Thermoguard Instruments - Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 11:44

Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 11:44
Good on ya, Brian! I also wonder why people bother to reply if they don't have anything helpful to contribute.

For what it's worth Troop-a-door, I'd suggest you if you want to get along briskly but without gulping fuel then change-up at whatever revs you need to have the engine at the bottom of it's strong torque band when you engage the next gear. That is, in my Discovery 300Tdi for example, it pulls very well above 2000 rpm so if I change in the high 2000s it's doing just about 2000 rpm in the next gear and keeps accelerating nicely. With a 4.2 turbo engine the strong torque band might come in a bit lower, say 1500 - 1600 rpm. That's my two centts worth.
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Follow Up By: GQ_TUFF - Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 11:45

Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 11:45
Well said Brian.....My current car is my first diesel and yes it is a learning curve, have tried many ways of driving it, some worked better than others, But after 7000KM in the new beast I belive I have found what works best for most situations both on and off road.

Cheers Stefan
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Follow Up By: Dave Thomson - Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 15:08

Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 15:08
Onya guys,
cant think of a better way to put someone off participating on a site than to run him down or make him look stupid, we cant all be einstiens, so unless you've got something constructive to say it's best you dont say anything, at the end of the day this site is supposed to be all about helping one another isn't it .....................?
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Follow Up By: GQ_TUFF - Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 16:44

Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 16:44
Thanks dave.....hope you were only having a go at the first couple of follow ups as the rest have been very informative!!!

Cheers
stefan
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Reply By: PaulnLou - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 17:24

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 17:24
G'day there, I didn't think it was a dumb question. I asked the same of my Nissan dealer, pointing out the owners manual doesn't suggest speed ranges and rpm ranges like the owners manuals in some of the cars I have had. The considered answer I got from one of the service blokes was a shrug of the shoulders and 'I dunno, when it feels right, I guess." In leiu of any better advice I change at about the top of the torque curve for normal driving and if the load is greater than normal I add more rev's. Hope this helps. Seeya
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 10:26

Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 10:26
I have a Nissan Patrol 4.2 TD. In my manual it gives recommended speeds for each gear. From memory it give a recommended minimum speed of 75km/h for 5th gear.

I can look it up and provide you with the information if you require it
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Reply By: GQ_TUFF - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 17:25

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 17:25
Just go by feel.......my 2.8 turbo gu...feels happy between 2000-3500...It red lines at 5000, but after 3500 all you are doing is making noise burning fuel and placing extra strain on the motor. Stay where the torque is!!!

Cheers Stefan
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Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 17:28

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 17:28
I rev the ring out of mine but that's cause I feel it does it's best up in that rev range. Others have beautiful torque down low and you don't gain much by revving the hell out of it. From the figures you give I would imagine driving yours past about 3500rpm would make not much sense at all?? depends on what you are doing with the car at the time. In sand? towing? or cruising up the freeway empty? each scenario requiring a different approach.

Cheers, Trevor.
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Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 20:40

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 20:40
Trev, Hang on!, if your got to rev the ring out of a 4.2 to get anywhere, How come this motor is so reconised as the best thing out there?. My Landy pulls like a bullock between 1800- 2000 rpm no matter whats on it or what its pulling!!. HAHA.

Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 21:19

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 21:19
Hi Axle,
I don't "have" to rev the ring out of mine, but I think mine does it's best in the higher rev range. Mine is no standard 4.2, it has been changed to suit my driving. A lot of highway towing at speed. Peak torque in mine is from about (in 5th) 100kph to 150kph and peak HP is up around 158kph.
I know there is 4.2's out there with phenomenal torque down around 1600rpm but mine is not like that, but "the other 4.2's" wont do what mine does either. The so called lack of low down torque in mine is somewhat nullified off road by a 3.7 crawler gear that eats up all but the most extreme terrain. (shame the driver is not up to the cars ability LOL!!)

Hope this clarifies my situation.
Regards, Trevor.
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 21:26

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 21:26
Axle, hope the chart shows you what I mean.

!MPG:14!

Cheers, Trevor.
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Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 17:35

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 17:35
On the last EO trip to the High Country I changed gear thrice in one day, now once was after I fell A over T into a somewhat large mudpuddle helping Des outta the muck, then I had to change per dinner cdause the replaced jeans were filthy and then I had to change again into my jarmies.

Now I am not sure what sort of torque you guys mean but just be careful Crazie has YOUR camera when he snaps a pic of you changing gear.
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Follow Up By: Wazza - (Vic) - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 17:48

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 17:48
You didn't have to change gear cos you got towed everywhere ;)
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 17:54

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 17:54
Until my dang tow car broke! Didya gettit fixed>?
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Follow Up By: Wazza - (Vic) - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 22:38

Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 22:38
Ads has the parts, $37 for the drive plate. Just got to go and pick it up from the lad. I only washed it last Friday, and only cos I locked myself out of the house and there was nothing else to do until the mrs got home.
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 22:58

Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 22:58
So you broke the car, then locked yourself out. Sound organised mate. You going to the show over the weekend Wazza?
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Follow Up By: Wazza - (Vic) - Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 at 07:52

Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 at 07:52
G'day John,

I won't be going on Sunday. I might wander down from work for the arvo on Friday though.

Wazza.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 at 16:35

Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 at 16:35
We gotta do that lunch too Wazza, wonder if u can get a Friday and Sunday deal with the entrance fee, like a passout or somethin
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Reply By: Kiwi Ray - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 18:06

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 18:06
Hi .
This is not a dumb question
Flat road driving; no hurry
Up shift-2800-3000 in a hurry 3500
Hills; you will need to do some test drives for this, to find how much the revs change between each gear.
When climbing hills change down before you drop off the lower end of the torque curve or change down so that your down shift brings the revs to 2800 approx.
Up shifting, change up when you know that when you engage the next gear you will be about the middle of the torque band.
Kw or HP is for acceleration, speed
Torque is for work, hill climbing
Hope this will be of help and experiment with your truck as they all vavy a little
Ray

AnswerID: 200064

Reply By: 100 Series - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 18:38

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 18:38
Depends if it is your own car!

If it is a company car or a rental anywhere prior to red line is about where you change.

If it is your own change somewhere below that.
AnswerID: 200067

Reply By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 18:41

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 18:41
Off-road. Anticipate the gear you will need (experience) and change to that gear before you need it.
OK it is simplified but that's the idea. No good reaching for Low Range second half way up a 40 degree slope.

AnswerID: 200068

Follow Up By: CLC50 - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 18:50

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 18:50
Then back down & start all over ,you now Know where you went Wrong.
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Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 18:51

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 18:51
that's it
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 12:27

Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 12:27
dunno if its right but we actually got shown to stall it out, foot on the brake select proper gear, restart with foot on clutch, wind out hand throttle to 1500rpm thn release clutch while releasing brake -way you go (then wind hand throttle back in)
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Reply By: luch - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 19:51

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 19:51
i change between 1800 and 3000 any where over 3000 its not making much power !
If im in a hurry ill change just as the governer cuts in 4300

100 series 1hz turbo
AnswerID: 200079

Reply By: Member - Duncs - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 20:28

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 20:28
When I bought the Trak Shak I asked Peter (the original owner of Trak Shak) when he changed gear 'cause he was driving a GQ like me.

He said change down 5th to 4th at 110k/h to keep the engine spinning.

The 4.2 Nissan diesel has a torque curve like a billiard table it climbs up one leg and just sits on top, but it generates good power from about 2300rpm (with a turbo fitted and in the GU that's when the turbo starts to really get going) and peak power is at about 3200 from memory. By keeping the engine above 2300 it keeps the turbo happy and that is what makes it sing. Changing down at 110 keeps the rev around 2500 (before the change).

If you have to go down to 3rd or 2nd keep the same prinicipal in mind. I find that if I concentrate on doing that it also helps control the GU's tendency to get warm. Oh and keeping the throttle light also helps make your fuel dollar go a little further.

Duncs
AnswerID: 200094

Follow Up By: obee - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 20:44

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 20:44
I saw this show on tv once where a mechanic was explaining to the camera how this dumb truck driver had ignored his instructions to change down and not labour the motor. Result was a burned out clutch and no delivery of vitally needed supplies on some aid program in Afrika. Ok it was not a four wheel drive as we use but I always consider this advice when I tow a load and keep my little 3.0 turbo above 2000 revs when working it hard. Also consider that fifth gear is overdrive and not straight through like fourth. I have heard that towing in fifth is not good but I also heard to the contrary too. Just something to consider and keep asking those guys who fix our vehicles I guess.

Owen
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Reply By: Member No 1- Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 20:43

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 20:43
when you need to go faster?
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Reply By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 21:31

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 21:31
The old 2H yellow lines at 3500 & redlines at 4000 rpm. Anything over 2500rpm in except in top gear sounds like I'm wringing the neck off it!. Usually change around 1500 to 2000.
AnswerID: 200109

Reply By: tom2 - Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 22:56

Friday, Oct 20, 2006 at 22:56
try monday tuesday - - - - sunday
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Reply By: ross - Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 02:03

Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 02:03
I like to change gears in my 1HZ just above the point where it does not labour and vibrate the vehicle.
I adjust this upwards for loads and hills.I guess it all happens in the 2000-2500rpm range.
AnswerID: 200140

Reply By: Neil & Pauline - Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 13:38

Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 13:38
I use the information from tractors and trucks which are pulling on high load most of the time. The basic rule is to maintain the revs at or above the maximum toque. The more you go above the higher the fuel consumption. Once the motor drops to the Max toque level then change down. It is not much point before then.

That is the principle I work on and that is why diesels are better for towing.

There is no such thing as a silly question. If you don't know then it is not silly.

Neil
AnswerID: 200207

Reply By: Bold Jack - Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 21:12

Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 at 21:12
It's only a silly question if you drive an auto.
AnswerID: 200269

Follow Up By: harryopal - Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 12:50

Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 12:50
That wasn't a silly question? This is a silly question.
Back in 1969 I bought a second hand, short wheel base, soft top Landrover to do a trip around Australia. Was in the Flinders Rangers and it was bucketing with the mud roads awash and slipping and sliding across the road. Stopped at a little pub, walked in and asked....
`How do you engage the 4 wheel drive in a Landrover?'
Yes, we did feel stupid. The postscript is travelled around the country and through the centre, up down and about with plenty of 4 x 4 use. Only problem was one flat tyre on the whole trip.
Harry
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Reply By: Andrew-rodeo - Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 22:04

Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 22:04
Maybe just to make things easy an auto would be a good option.
AnswerID: 200401

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