1HZ still a problem.....Its a Mystery
Submitted: Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 12:15
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Member - John L G
Just when I thought the problem of the smoky motor was cured - apparently not so.
Finally got down to Bunbury to pick the truck up after its compression checks, dyno and injector service and seemed OK with adeqaute power BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Next morning on start up and driving at low revs and between gear changes, there is the black pall following faithfully. Mechanics claim its ok on the Dyno, plenty of power and not smoking and now have new injector nozzles etc and fuel has been wound back a bit.
Much scratching of heads and suggestions to do this and that but needless to say, I'm now $1K poorer and no closer to a solution and I suppose this is what ticks me off most about service organisations in the modern day.
I suppose that the reason I was interested in the first place to throw it on
the tip and put a new motor in because missed diadnostics at the owners expense can soon cost an arm and a leg with no positive result.
Roachie would know this with his eternal overheating problem which finally has driven him to a complete vehicle change. The dollars can soon evaporate without any success leaving you a whole lot poorer with no progress.
So if smoke indicates poor combustion -which equates to diesel supply, compression and air - and I have checked the first two, then perhaps its a dodgy filter tho visually it looks OK and only 2K old.
Could it still be the fuel pump??? tho that was overhauled 25K's ago but perhaps a bit sus about the mob who did it????????
And yes it has been heating up a bit under heavy load but the problems are evident from start up from cold through to operating temps??????
Any one got any
bright ideas?????????????
John G
Reply By: Member - Tour Boy- Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 12:26
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 12:26
Altitude compensator? if thats playing up would it richen the pump?
Tour Boy
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - John L G - Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 13:00
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 13:00
Didn't know they had one and where would I find that I wonder??????
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Drew - Karratha - Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 12:27
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 12:27
A
Bright idea - and one that I want to do with my 80 series with 350000km on the clock, very poor fuel economy, no power, and smoke....
Swap it with the TD 80 series engine (1HD-FT).
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - John L G - Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 13:05
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 13:05
Drew,
I understand your sentiments exactly and after posting here last week before the latest round of diagnostics, the EO crew led me to a brand new long motor for $7,200 from a Tojo dealership before the haggling starts.
Have you had prices on the TD 80 (1hd-FT) diesel and does this slot in to your knowledge???? Is this a superior motor to the 1HZ???? I really don't know much about that engine or how
well it is supported now??
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Follow Up By: Drew - Karratha - Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 15:05
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 15:05
I haven't had prices, but I think the only change needed to suit the 80 series (may be different for the 75) is the air cleaner lid (to suit the turbo). The other option that I am looking at (since a new 1HZ is so cheap) is to get it turbo'ed and intercooled by with a MTQ turbo - their power figures for the intercooled turbo is about the same as the 100series turbo engines (153kw and 430Nm). There is a place in
Perth somewhere (check out the MTQ Engine Systems site on the internet).
Drew
P - moving down your way in a couple of weeks (staying in Collie for a couple of weeks, then to a new home in Binningup - it is getting too hot up here...)
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - John L G - Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 18:13
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 18:13
Drew,
I have spent a few hours talking to a number of technical boffins and it would seem a consensus of opinion is that I may have a cracked piston, gudgeon etc.
I of course enquired as to how that could be with compressions being ok and the response was that on deacceleration - trailing throttle during gear changes - that sump pressure could force a small amount of oil up through the cracks and cause pooling on the piston so that when the throttle is reapplied this oil is burnt off.
My response was - shouldn't that be blue - and reply was not neccesarily so.
The smoke I am talking about is a thick coiling wet looking black smoke so not too sure who to believe at the moment rather than carbonated exhauast type smoke.
You can be sure that if I put the vehicle in again, another invoice will follow with no solution - call me pessimistic but I am cynical enough to know how this works.
Your trip down south won't be wasted as country around here pretty special, 4WD till you drop and all a stones throw from the front door. Added bonus is every trail ends in an expanse of
water. Having lived here you will wonder what all the chatter is about no
water - ther is heaps of it here.
Have a safe trip south.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - John L G - Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 18:16
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 18:16
Forgot to mention that i Safri turboed this engine about 25k ago so that may have been where my troubles began but I would have no hesitation reinstalling the turbo on a new 1HZ as previous history my truck may have figured in this latest problem..
Son has 100 series with 1hz safari turbo intercooled and gem of a car. Now it sgassed and even better.........
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Follow Up By: Gra_Bo - Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 21:18
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 21:18
Hi
Their is only 3 ways of oil getting into the combustion chamber of a turbo motor.
Past the piston rings from sump.
Past the valve stem seals.
or past the bearing in the turbo.
Either check this yourself or get a mechanic to check it for you.
If it is not oil it must be fuel.
So, it must be either injectors or injection pump.
Again check this yourself or get a mechanic to check it for you.
Cheers Gra_Bo
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Reply By: Member - Tour Boy- Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 15:12
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 15:12
John, the compensators are attached to the pump as far as I know and they are only on the non turbo models. I guess a workshop manual would point you in the right direction. Or a trip to your local yota dealer spares section, get him to bring it up on the computer screen and show you so you can identify it by looking at it.
Tour Boy
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - John L G - Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 18:45
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 18:45
Thanks for that info and will check it out on monday when I'm once again leaning across the counter asking for help.
Like your 80 series crew cab - top truck!!
If youy are like me, I think this configuration for offroad and
camping is simply unbeatable.
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Follow Up By: ross - Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 23:35
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 23:35
My factory service manual shows the 1HZ/PZ pump with and without a HAC.
If you have one,then you have to have the approprate governor cover.
Its the part where the fuel lines enter the pump.
I have 2 x 1HZ engines and a spare pump and none have the HAC. I have only seen them on newer models in car yards.
I would be taking it back to the mechanic and be very firm in my demands,either a refund or fix it.
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Reply By: Neil & Pauline - Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 15:31
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 15:31
John
Has anyone checked the injection timing. I had a truck which had the timing set to specs but for some unknown reason to me was not the ideal for the motor.
Neil
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - John L G - Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 18:52
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 18:52
Neil,
Yes they had a look at that the other day and apparently ok
Think I will rest the brain this WE and maybe give it a wash and vaccum - everything seems to run better then LOL :-)
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Reply By: Member - Tour Boy- Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 19:00
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 19:00
Hi John,
Why don't you sell the old girl, shake the lumpy leaf springs, buy
mine, comfy on long travel coils, 48cpl on gas cheap to service. I wish I could afford to keep it and buy a hunjy which one day will probably get the chop too!!! LOL
Rest your brain and may next week be more kind to you.
Regards
Tour Boy
AnswerID:
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Reply By: goingplatinumcomau - Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 19:16
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 19:16
Hi Jon
Yes that is the story everywhere these day from Govt's to Counsil's....... Motor dealers ect more Money in Robbing people for little amonts with no work than Bigger Amonuts with alot of work.
Where are the Mechanic's of yesteryear that could listen to a Motor and tell you the Problem.
Regards Shane
AnswerID:
208038
Follow Up By: Member - Jiarna (NT) - Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 19:57
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 19:57
They all went broke because they couldn't compete with
the rip-off merchants. After all,
the rip-off merchants have just enough satisfied customers to keep the business rolling in, and they make so much off
the rip-offs that they can afford to be cheaper on the bigger jobs.
Just my theory, and I avoid mechanics like the plague!!
Cheers
John
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Reply By: samsgoneagain - Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 21:30
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 21:30
could be cracked pre combustion chamber caps. they always crack under normal conditions but never enough to cause trouble------ until the injector starts squirting fuel in one spot and erodes the cap enough so the engine sucks the fuel through the crack and not through the pre com hole in the cap.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Eric Experience. - Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 22:40
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 22:40
John.
Take a rest and then do some elimination tests. Is the oil coming from the sump? ie blowby. connect the rocker cover hose to a plastic bottle and drive for a day. Is the oil coming from the turbo? take the hose from the turbo to the inlet and clean it inside, replace and drive for a day. If you get oil in the plastic bottle you have broken top rings. if there is no oil in the bottle but the turbo hose oils up you have a leaking seal in the turbo. If there is no oil in the bottle or the hose ask for your money back on the injector repairs. If you decide to replace the motor I would like to buy the old one. Eric.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - John L G - Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 23:07
Friday, Dec 01, 2006 at 23:07
Eric - That's Good Advice
As when in the bush and it all gets a bit difficult, stop the truck, get out, boil the billy and contemplate the problem without the rush over a nice cuppa.
What you suggest is probably far to logical for the average mechanic but makes sense to me so I will have a play with the bits you mention and see what happens.
Thanks for the input.
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Reply By: 666toy - Saturday, Dec 02, 2006 at 06:49
Saturday, Dec 02, 2006 at 06:49
Black wet smoke..you have fuel issues no question there . I would be returning your truck & asking for a full refund or fix before doing anything els. Most likely injector pump at fault if you have replaced injectors. Sounds like over-fuelling to me ...666toy
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Reply By: Member - Phillip S (WA) - Saturday, Dec 02, 2006 at 11:53
Saturday, Dec 02, 2006 at 11:53
John, who did the job in Bunbury for you so I don't get caught as I live in
Australind and does it only smoke at the start until the engine heats up and she is O.K. after that ?
regards Phil
AnswerID:
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Reply By: snowman - Saturday, Dec 02, 2006 at 18:47
Saturday, Dec 02, 2006 at 18:47
Hi
John,
If i remember correctly you said in an earlier post that your motor made a bang noise when this first happen. I think you will find that your problem could be that a hose from your turbo to the inlet manifold has split or is leaking in some way. When one of these hoses lets go they go off with a bang. So you will now have low boost pressure giving you the black smoke. You need to make up a fitting to pressurise the inlet side of turbo so you can
check for leaks on the pressure side of turbo.
Cheers Dave
AnswerID:
208197