80 Series Directional Stability

Submitted: Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 20:28

ThreadID: 40385 Views:10510 Replies:13 FollowUps:4

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mike b

Anyone got any thoughts on how to improve the straight line stability on an 80
series Landcruiser.Love my old cruiser, but there are times when I swear it has to go! It's a very good cruiser with ARB suspension,min. lift, BFG AT's both less than 20,000ks. Steering and front end spec's. has been checked and is as it should be. So why do they wander all over the black top at highway speed and I dont want to even know about cross winds on the F3 at 120, its close to dangerous.
Have driven 3 other 80 Cruisers in the last year, thought all were worse than mine, yet the owners thought they were OK.
Have come to some conclusions.
Firstly, if its an everyday car owners seem to get used to it, my usual is a
Subaru Outback,pinpoint steering and suspension.
Secondly, the Cruiser is magic cruising the Tanami and Gibb with my 2 ton offroad van behind, could not ask for a better set up at whatever speed you are comfortable with.
Thirdly, there are some black top surfaces that landcruisers dont seem to like at all, usually choppy and undulating and an absolute fight to keep things going in a straight line, was so bad about 50ks south of Alice Springs, stopped and had a look to see if I had a flat tyre, nope, just the road surface.
Any ideas from our experts,or they all like this?
Mike B

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Reply By: Des Lexic - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 20:35

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 20:35

Some cars perform better with other brands of tyres. could be tyre pressure. maybe even balancing. Mutitude of possibilities. have Toyo A/T's on the 100 amd have no problems with drifting. My old 60 used to wander a bit and I was told to look further ahead down the road. Didn't seem to notice it any more. We also have a subbie and I know what you mean it's sweet to drive.

AnswerID: 210543

Reply By: Member - Karl - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 20:58

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 20:58

As stated above it could tyre pressures, but if you have had a lift you might need a castor or camber kits installed.

Couple years ago I had a similar problem after getting a 50mm lift and took it to a number of different tyre places (the experts) and was told, "too bad it's an old 4WD what do you expect".

I was living in Canberra/Queanbeyan at the time and was finally told to see a guy in Queanbeyan who did truck suspensions. He installed a camber kit to fix the 'toe in' problem and a castor kit to fix the camber problem.

Been great ever since, so you might need to take it to a real specialist to be fixed.

Also by raising the height you are altering your centre of gravity - so if you are not use to it (that is using it everyday) it may feel different. I still get caught out sometimes when hit by wind gust - especially living here in WA when the sea breeze blows!!

Hope my ramblings have helped.

Karl

AnswerID: 210547

Reply By: cowpat - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 21:23

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 21:23

My LC105 felt very vague in the steering around corners, like there was way too much play and it was time to do the steering box. Too much tyre pressure for the wide tyres (305/70R16) was the problem, they weren't wearing evenly either with most of the wear towards the centre. I was at 36 front 45 rear cold pressures. Approx 4 psi rule. But at 28 front 35 rear cold it handles fine, but pressures rise 6+ psi when the tyres warm up, so therefore I ignore the 4 psi "guideline". Casper

AnswerID: 210553

Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 07:43

Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 07:43

If you have pressure increase problems when the tyre gets hot have the tyre deflated and refilled with nitrogen at Jax tyres or the like. Pressure stays constant but you need to have them topped up after deflating for sand driving with nitrogen. Just a thought.

FollowupID: 470639

Follow Up By: cowpat - Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 15:51

Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 15:51

Ian, interesting... yes Bob Jane around here (Vic) do, or used to do, nitrogen fills, but I muck about with the pressures too much. Maybe carry a cylinder in the back like the comp guys? Would be faster than the compressor too... Thanks for the idea. Casper

FollowupID: 470701

Reply By: Middle Jeff - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 21:52

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 21:52

Hi Mike
Mine was wandering all over the place and everyone who looked at it said everything was fine so I stuff them they aren't driving it every day so I changed the tierod (spelling) ends and put a return to centre stabiliser on and it was heaps better, the tierods are hard to pick as it is hard to put 3 ton of weight on them in the garage.
The other thing is on the steering coloum, their is a nylon bush that goes.

Have fun

Craig

AnswerID: 210561

Reply By: Outnabout David (SA) - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 22:22

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 22:22

Vagueness is usually a result of castor being out when the suspension is lifted. Some are worse than others. Change the bushes over and you will be happy with the result

AnswerID: 210567

Reply By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 22:52

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 22:52

I have heard of this but my 80 tracks just fine. My round own performance is hindered by very soft suspensuin tat really wallows turn today to o round the corner tomorrow. Even when I took it for a test run at 150kph I was surpised at its stability espeially when I checked for front end play and found one whee nt far from falling off due to aloose wheel bearing

AnswerID: 210575

Reply By: Member - Jerry C (WA) - Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 01:23

Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 01:23

My 1995 80 wandered badley even on the freeway and in still wind conditions, after a number of wheel alinements and six years I was sent to Wilkinson Suspension in Bayswater in Perth who set the Toe Out to -1 & -1 and haven't had a wander problem since. I have no connection with Wilkinson.

Jerry

AnswerID: 210606

Follow Up By: mike b - Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 at 10:46

Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 at 10:46

Jerry,
Little confused as to what -1mm Toe OUT means. I'm starting to get something done about the wandering.

Toyota spec. is 2mm toe IN, so what would the minus figure refer to??
Thanks, it all helps when I see the wheel alignment people
Mike B

FollowupID: 471203

Follow Up By: Member - Jerry C (WA) - Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 00:50

Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 00:50

Hi Mike B,
Putting this into words may get a little confused, it would be a lot easier to use some drawings, I will do my best.

If the front wheels are adjusted to be straight ahead, and they are parallel to each other, then the "Toe In" is said to be "0".

As the majority of vehicles have the wheels adjusted to a "Toe In" situation, that is closer together at the front than the rear, it is considered to be a "+ve" value.

Thus if the wheels are adjusted to be further apart at the front than the rear, then the "Toe In" becomes a "-ve" value.

So of course you could say that the "Toe Out" is a "-ve" value.
I wrote it as the wheel aligner did and that the adjustment was symetrical, that is that it was "-1" on each wheel, or dare I say it "-2" overall.

Hope this helps, cheers

Jerry

FollowupID: 471538

Reply By: pt_nomad - Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 08:53

Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 08:53

I have a discovery, S1, simlar issue following lift - castror kit did the trick.
I have also found the tyre pressures are important. On the black top I run fairly high pressue and find that if I dont have the front 4-6 psi lower that the rear the car requires constant steering input at highway speed. Set the pressures on the front that bit lower and it travels true at speed.
From some of the posts it seems there may also be mechanical issues, but at least the fronr/rear pressure differential trick costs you nothing to try.
Paul.

AnswerID: 210626

Reply By: Footloose - Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 14:21

Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 14:21

How old is the suspension ? My OE suspension went and I didn't realize it had until I had to drive back from Alice Springs at 80k/h. My mech said suspendion was ok until I got him to change it. When crook, any speed above 80k was dangerous.

AnswerID: 210644

Reply By: Alloy c/t - Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 18:54

Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 18:54

Swap the standard steering dampner for an RTC [return to centre] ,job , upto and including a 50mm lift no castor correction is needed on the early 80series ,but an RTC makes the "wanders" disapear.

AnswerID: 210675

Reply By: Member - DOZER- Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 23:34

Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 23:34

Caster is the usual culpret...if you have anything but -1 degree, its out....id suggest to you that there may also be play in your panhard bushes...or any of the joints under there...

AnswerID: 210724

Reply By: mike b - Sunday, Dec 17, 2006 at 10:28

Sunday, Dec 17, 2006 at 10:28

Thank you all, some interesting ideas there.
Allready have the Castor kit bushes fitted and ARB steering damper fitted, its part of the OME package with less than 20000ks on it.
Problem is now to find a good suspension operation on the NSW Central Coast
who are willing to listen. Most seem to want to sell you a product and not much else. In some ways I'm a bit hyper sensitive to steering wander, as I said my
subbie is magic and my toy is a MX5, again, pin point steering and tracking so it becomes a big contrast when I use the 80.
Will play with some of the ideas especially the camber kit which I've never heard
of before.
Many thanks
Mike B

AnswerID: 210751

Reply By: trolute - Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 at 11:36

Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 at 11:36

my patrol was not great in a straight line, normal tyre places all said 'too bad, nothing we can do', but i took it to a truck specialist, and they corrected the RHS camber, and it now drives like a dream. Truck people are used to dealing with rigid front axles.

AnswerID: 211165