17" rims on new Prado

Submitted: Wednesday, Mar 26, 2003 at 22:35
ThreadID: 4076 Views:5301 Replies:10 FollowUps:24
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Folks,
I've currently in the process of deciding whether to buy a 2nd hand Prado Turbo Diesel, or getting a new one. One thing that I am currently deterred by on the new model, is the fact that it comes with 17" rims. There are currently NO alternative tyres available in this size! I've spoken to a few of the major tyre manufacturers, and they tell me that as yet, they have no plans to produce 17" tyres. You can only get the originals(GrandTreks I think). I'm hoping that this situation will change once people start wearing out their tyres. Let's hope so. Otherwise, I presume alternative sized rims will have to be considered. As these are so new, I doubt whether anyone has investigated this yet.

If anyone has any further information/suggestions, let me know.

Regards,

Stuart
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Reply By: Truckster - Wednesday, Mar 26, 2003 at 22:53

Wednesday, Mar 26, 2003 at 22:53
Mate has a new 2003, and put 16 inch rims on it off an 80 Series GXL.. they fit.

No more problems.

AnswerID: 16205

Follow Up By: Stuart W - Saturday, Mar 29, 2003 at 22:25

Saturday, Mar 29, 2003 at 22:25
"Truckster". Thanks for the tip. I'll look into getting a set of these.

Thanks,

Stuart
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Reply By: Chip - Wednesday, Mar 26, 2003 at 23:01

Wednesday, Mar 26, 2003 at 23:01
I would do as Truckster's mate has done. Then you know at least that someone is going to be around with a spare tyre if you're strandedChip
AnswerID: 16206

Reply By: Tuco69 - Wednesday, Mar 26, 2003 at 23:17

Wednesday, Mar 26, 2003 at 23:17
Stuart - Odd size tyres can cause headaches if you get away from the big smoke!

I had the experience of trying to replace a damaged 35x12.50x15 BFG All Terain in Mt Isa, Alice Springs and Darwin! The size was simply not available and I would have had to wait up to a week! Lucky I had 2 spares.

I think your concerns with 17 inch rubber are justified.

Tuco in Cairns
AnswerID: 16208

Reply By: Truckster - Wednesday, Mar 26, 2003 at 23:33

Wednesday, Mar 26, 2003 at 23:33
I think it also goes to show what the car is aimed at.... smooth highway driving..

Why would they go away from 15/16 inch rims that are common as dodgey cops, and there are more tires available in them sizes than anything....?? I know the calipers are BIG on the new Prado, but Darren says looking at them there is no need for them to be this big...

Oh well.

Good luck choosing what ever you get.... Must be nice to have that much $$!!
AnswerID: 16210

Reply By: Savvas - Thursday, Mar 27, 2003 at 08:43

Thursday, Mar 27, 2003 at 08:43
The tyres on the Prado are some new thing from Dunlop called Grandtrek AT20. They're the least AT'ish looking AT tyre I've ever seen.
AnswerID: 16219

Follow Up By: Savvas - Thursday, Mar 27, 2003 at 08:53

Thursday, Mar 27, 2003 at 08:53
PS ... If I was to buy the new Prado, I'd look at getting a set of 16" Sunraysia's with some decent rubber for offroading. Then probably keep the standard rims and rubber for onroad.

Assuming the budget can stretch that far.
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Thursday, Mar 27, 2003 at 09:46

Thursday, Mar 27, 2003 at 09:46
If you can afford ~ $60k for a prado you can afford $400 for sunnys!
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Follow Up By: Savvas - Thursday, Mar 27, 2003 at 11:21

Thursday, Mar 27, 2003 at 11:21
Or $72k plus ORC for the Grande.

I'd be too scared to take it out of the garage.
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Thursday, Mar 27, 2003 at 14:06

Thursday, Mar 27, 2003 at 14:06
$72k for any car is obscene.....

specially somethin your going to scratch and get dirty...
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Follow Up By: Stuart W - Saturday, Mar 29, 2003 at 22:22

Saturday, Mar 29, 2003 at 22:22
Well chaps, in fact I was looking at a 2nd hand Prado at one stage, but I managed to get one of those, "too good to be true" deals on a new Prado GXL Turbo Diesel. This is the ONLY reason why I decided on a new one. Otherwise, I'd definitely be looking at - say - a 2000 model.

I actually rang Toyota directly to ask the question about changing rim sizes, but they gave me the extremely standard reply, "the new Prado is designed to run 17" rims; "ADR compliance", blah, blah, blah...

So that was a complete waste of time. But, I was glad to hear that the Landcruiser 16" rims fit okay. So, when I get around to it, I'll probably grab a 2nd hand set of those(I don't need to spend even more $ on new rims).

While I'm still rambling though, I do have to say that I actually prefer the shape of the previous Prado. It looked more utilitarian. C'est la vie I guess... The new feature of being able to easily pull out the 3rd row of seats is a great new mod though(previous model required a spanner). And I look forward to testing the apparently upgraded suspension(longer travel). I was though, hoping to be able to whip out and buy a set of swaybar disconnects, but "Wizard Performance" don't make them for the new model(yet?). So I'll either have to make something myself, or disconnect the bloody things myself every time I need to tackle anything reasonably serious.

Rambing finished,

Stuart
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Follow Up By: Savvas - Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 08:07

Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 08:07
Bloody dealers! You have to wonder how much mark up there is if they're able to pull out a "too good to be true" deal and stay in business.
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Follow Up By: Savvas - Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 08:08

Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 08:08
PS...Stuart, Congrats on the new vehicle! Let us all know how it goes.
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 09:41

Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 09:41
You called toyota about runnin different rims, you expected them to say anything but OH NO YOU CANT ... BLAH BLAH!!!

yea new prado looks too much like a bitza, bit of CRV bit of Challanger, bit of this bit of that...

Swaybar disconnects SUCK..... THey are not the magic little item they seem to be.. I know of many people who have had them, but thrown them in the bin.. Roly the other week took 45 mins with hammers to get them back into place! Needless to say he doesnt have them anymore.

Unto the 2 bolts at the ends of the swaybars is the easiest.

There are 20inch travel kits for Prado avail in USA, they are the same as the US Tundra what ever that is

Check this Prado out!
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Follow Up By: Stuart W - Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 13:13

Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 13:13
Truckster,
I agree that the new Prado looks pretty bloody namby-pamby, and I much preferred the look of the previous model. I just hope that I don't have to fiddle about with it too much to get it to do decent offroad work. I'll put on some 16" rims, higher profile/chunkier tyres and disconnect the swaybars(when offroad) and we'll see how we go.

I certainly like the look of your Prado. Have you had any problems with the CV joints? That's about the only thing I'm wary of with independent front ends. i.e. too much lift/travel can put extra strain on CV joints.

As for the swaybar disconnects, I was hoping they'd make the job a whole lot easier, but it sounds not. I'll just have to keep a spanner handy. I reckon that disconnecting these swaybars is one of the best/cheapest ways to get better traction(keeping all 4 wheels on the ground).

Regards,

Stuart
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 16:00

Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 16:00
Thats not my car, I dont have a modern plastic car!

I have a solid steel car GQ....
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Follow Up By: Stuart W - Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 16:22

Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 16:22
Apologies Truckster(now what were your parents thinking when they named you "Truckster"?...). But at least the photos you provided show that the(previous model) Prado can be made to be pretty capable. Let's hope that's just as possible with the new one, eventhough it does look a bit soft.

Regards,

Stuart
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FollowupID: 10163

Follow Up By: Truckster - Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 20:37

Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 20:37
yea theres NO reason that it cant be made this capable.

20inch lift kit from the Tundra in the US(same vehicle, so search for Tundra accessories)... Tires on rims, etc no swaybars and your there.

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Reply By: Phil G - Thursday, Mar 27, 2003 at 16:41

Thursday, Mar 27, 2003 at 16:41
This was reported on the Prado list. The Prado GXL 16x7 steel rims are the best bet as they will fit with a couple of mm's clearance from the front calipers. I don't know of anyone who has measured the 16 inch Prado mags.

The 16x8 80 series GXL wheels are hard to get.

My local Toyota Dealer said a set of Hilux rims will fit, but I have not been able to verify this.

Check the Sunraysias first. My 16x7 Speedy desert rats may not fit as the "internal diameter" of them is less (deeper wheel well).

I don't have any dimensions for the backspacing of the new Prado.
AnswerID: 16268

Follow Up By: Truckster - Friday, Mar 28, 2003 at 00:08

Friday, Mar 28, 2003 at 00:08
Not when ya borrow them from Dave Z's 80 :)~

Darren Mc was saying that sunnys will be a problem with a lump on the caliper... but that could be 'ground down'... sounds drastic to me!
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Follow Up By: herkman - Friday, Mar 28, 2003 at 01:16

Friday, Mar 28, 2003 at 01:16
The introduction of 17" rims into the Australian market, started late in 2001 with the ML series of MB 4WD.

This was done by MB, because of their desire to improve the braking, over the previous models. Many people did not like the change, because of the shortage of any tyres, let alone off road.

On the ML at least, you cannot fit the earlier wheels, because the rotor/caliper will not clear the inside of the rim.

Now we have in the space of one week, two more 4WD which have changed to 17" rims.

I do not know why Toyota upgraded the tyre size, it could have nothing to do with the USA market, as the Prado is not sold there.

However the MB powered diesel Grande Cherokee, now comes with the 17" rim, but I suspect that is to keep the rolling circumferance of the tyres the same as the ML270, which would save at least twiging the computor, as their engine and transmission, is a direct transplant from the ML270.

I do know that in talking to John Smith, at Coopers in Brisbane, that he is now stocking 17" tyres, and I would expect others will follow.

Bridgestone bring down 17" tyres, and they are very reasonable in price, but are not off road tyres.

The big thing is the ride, have driven an early ML with 16" rims, the ride is much better with the 17" rims.

The new Prado is a good car, but I suspect the tyres are not the best for hard work.

Regards

Col Tigwell Adelaide
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz - Friday, Mar 28, 2003 at 12:11

Friday, Mar 28, 2003 at 12:11
Sounds like Toyota are taking the "softroader" approach ;-)
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Follow Up By: Stuart W - Saturday, Mar 29, 2003 at 23:08

Saturday, Mar 29, 2003 at 23:08
Herkman. Thanks for the inside info. I have to say that I also tend to agree with GaryInOz regarding the "softroader" approach. From what I've seen/read(only a test in Japan so far), they still seem to have major potential, especially with(apparent) extra suspension travel.

In getting a set of 16" rims however, the biggest pain will be to ensure the rolling diameter is as close as possible(I think it's about 780mm). I've checked out the Coopers Tyres website, but can't find any reference to suitble 17" tyres.

I think the bottom line here is the fact that 65-series is just too low profile for off-road. Thus, there's no choice but to get some 16" rims before I go and do something serious.

A "by the way" here is that I wish that Toyota had introduced their up-spec TD engine in the new model. Overseas, they supply a 16-valve, direct injection version, with more power & torque etc. I was a bit bleep off they had the previous engine, though it does seem pretty bullet proof.

Stuart
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Reply By: David - Friday, Mar 28, 2003 at 09:33

Friday, Mar 28, 2003 at 09:33
I believe Coopers and Kelly both have a 17' AT tyre.
AnswerID: 16308

Reply By: Member - Bob - Saturday, Mar 29, 2003 at 09:21

Saturday, Mar 29, 2003 at 09:21
With the 17" wheel are the tyres still 70 profile, or are they 60 or 65 to give the same rolling diameter as the 16" wheel? If a lower profile tyre is used it isn't going to be as versatile in the rough.
AnswerID: 16379

Follow Up By: GaryInOz - Saturday, Mar 29, 2003 at 10:25

Saturday, Mar 29, 2003 at 10:25
According to the specs sheet, 7.5 x 17" alloys/ 265/65 -R17
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Follow Up By: Phil G - Sunday, Mar 30, 2003 at 07:54

Sunday, Mar 30, 2003 at 07:54
Just checked the Cooper's book, Looks like 265/70R17 is the common LT constructed tyre, and its a bit taller than the standard which is nice. Diameter is 31.75 inch. Its available in the STT, Discoverer A/T, Discovered H/T, Discoveerer M&S.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Stuart W - Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 16:34

Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 16:34
Thanks for the info Phil. Obviously going to a 70 series tyre(from the original 65 series) on the same rim size will effectively increase the gearing and give an incorrect speedo reading. Otherwise though, they certainly have a good range of tyres for this rim size. I think at some stage I'll get a set of 16" rims in order to fit some higher profile tyres with the same(similar) diameter.

I think the bottom line here is that Toyota knows that most of its Prado buyers won't go anywhere near a dirt road, so they've made the car much more road-biased. Anyone who wants to take it into the rough stuff will have to modify it accordingly. I don't know why they don't offer 16" rims as an option.

Stuart
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Reply By: herkman - Sunday, Mar 30, 2003 at 08:39

Sunday, Mar 30, 2003 at 08:39
You are right, and I know from first hand info, know the training manager at Toyota quite well. The latest Prado was the have the Common rail engine in it, but Japan were not happy with the sulpher content in the fuel.

The same also applies to the Pajero, who like Toyota have a better and more fuel effiecent engine.

I had quired Ray about why on the previous model, I could not have a Prado with climate air. Having asked many dealers, who apparently from the range of replies, just did not know, again I asked the question of Toyota. The answer was that if they speced the Diesel prado up to the petrol version, then it would greatly affect their petrol model sales.

In our case it did, as we primarly wanted the car as a caravan towing tug, and would never use it in total 4WD situations, then we bought the ML270, it in 40,000 kms has performed well.

Now I note that the top of the range prado, has all the features that I wanted and more, but also to be fair, it is now more than the ML by over $5000. The statement that Toyota is catering for the soft roader approach, appear to be correct.

Toyota since I bought my first 4WD, appear to want to put tyres on their 4WD's, which really are not suitable.

I also think that there is an over reaction to the sulpher in the fuel. I have just retired after nearly 20 years exposure to GM locomotive engines, and even though GM make a special engine for sulpher fuels, we never used them, and what is more never viewed any damage to the engines caused by our fuel.

I suspect in order to keep the prices down, that we get the hand me down engines, and MB and JEEP, are the only ones bringing the best in diesel engines down here.

Regards

Col Tigwell
AnswerID: 16428

Follow Up By: GaryInOz - Sunday, Mar 30, 2003 at 15:23

Sunday, Mar 30, 2003 at 15:23
Not to mention with oddball wheel/tyre sizes quite often the only place in town to buy them will be the local Toyota dealer. Convenient that.....

Renault did this a few years ago with the Fuego sprts car and suffered similar problems when people blew tyres in the outback (made roads). Except of course they didn't have a country dealer network.
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Reply By: Truckster - Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 09:45

Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 09:45
Softroader?
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz - Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 17:04

Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 17:04
$$$$ modifications??? In reality any body on chassis vehicle can be modified to this point. The question is why should you have to spend big dollars on new wheels, tyres, springs, and suspension on a new "Toyota tough" $40-70 thousand dollar vehicle?
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Follow Up By: Truckster - Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 20:36

Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 20:36
So you think a 4b should come out standard like this? Dont hold your breath.. they are gettign more and more like shoppin trolleys, and will as thats a HUGE market for them.

the Genuine offroder is about 10%...


Suspension and wheels, probably not much more than $3-4000. If you can afford $70k for car, you can afford $4k for suspension! 33 Claws are $400each. 35s around $450ea.
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Follow Up By: Stuart W - Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 22:15

Monday, Mar 31, 2003 at 22:15
Gary,
I completely understand your frustration with the idea of having to spend at least a reasonable amount of money in order to make some of the newer 4WD's capable. Don't forget that it is the market that actually decides the types of car that manufacturers create. If 90% of the folk who bought 4WD's did so in order to take them to the roughest of places, I guarantee that you would see far less emphasis on the more luxury side of the market. The reality, however, is that - say - 70-80% of buyers don't actually intend to use the (perceived) capability of these vehicles. Luckily, it is still possible to buy a capable, relatively spartan 4WD. I'm referring to the base models of the Landcruiser 100(Diesel - I don't count the V8) and 78 series, Patrol and others such as the good old Defender and Jackaroo etc.

Regards,

Stuart
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