transmissions a bit of a joke!.

Submitted: Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 21:09
ThreadID: 40810 Views:3419 Replies:8 FollowUps:12
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After reading posts for the last 12mths and noticing the amount of transmission probs with four bys, ( including my own) ii personally think Landrover, Nissan, Toyo,,

need to get there act together!!. In the last ten years their been just building them way to light. Lube probs, splines wearing, bearing failure, etc.. With more hp, and torque on the way with different models, they need to get on top of these stupid faults. It should be easier to build a gearbox capable of 500,000ks, trouble free service, than a bloody motor. My mate has a 2wd rodeo tray back that is used every day in his landscaping business, and that thing has done 400,000ks on the original gearbox, diff, with out a drama.

My Thoughts only,

Cheers Axle
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Reply By: Member - Dave .. B (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 21:21

Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 21:21
Totally agree with you on this Axle you have prob read the post on my gearbox totally peed off 2 grand for first rebuild and now another 2 or more grand... after paying 30 odd grand for a 4by you'd expect a bit better...and as you say above its not just Nissan its Toyota, LandRover etc etc ..hope this is the bloody last of it ........cheers ....dave
AnswerID: 212928

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 21:37

Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 21:37
Dave.......Its a chit isn't it! the landy got a gRRRR in it yesterday sounds like a bearing, as i say their built to bloody light.

FollowupID: 473117

Follow Up By: Member - Dave .. B (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 21:53

Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 21:53
Axle ....your not wrong mate ...bloody chit alright , spose to be taking the patrol to Port Lincoln next monday was looking forward to a bit of 4wdriving in the Coffin Bay national park ...HA! will be going in the missus bloody Magna now ....Cheers .......Dave
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Reply By: Dave198 - Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 21:23

Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 21:23
Axle, I think in the last ten years there has been more emphasis on getting the fourbys to ride and drive like a car, including the noise level inside.
So the design of the gearboxes has changed.
My 60 series isn't much like a 80 or 100 series or GU to drive, but look at the sales figures of the fourbys over the last ten years.
I am not too sure the manufacturers would have many sleepless nights over the cost and frequency of repair bills that you get.
All they are interested in is keeping the production line going.
How many soft roaders were on the market ten years ago?
I think the manufacturers just want to either expand or create a market for their vehicles, and if that means making them more like a limo, then so be it.
AnswerID: 212930

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 21:30

Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 21:30
I know what your saying mate, but the the soft roaders appear to be having less probs overall than the heavier four bys

FollowupID: 473115

Follow Up By: Dave198 - Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 21:40

Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 21:40
But are the soft roaders doing the same job as the bigger ones?
Does the average soft roader owner do what the average bigger one does?
Really what I was getting at was the manufacturers have created a whole new market because generally a lot of the fourbys spend a lot of time on the bitumen.
Look at the small fourbys, the old Suzis and even the old Diahatsu, lotsa farms had those to run around in. Not many Rav's out there doin the same job.
FollowupID: 473118

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 22:07

Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 22:07
Dave 198.
I totally agree with you as far as building them like a limo, and having as many attractive gismoes as possible, to keep their little niche in the market, so competitive, but i still think if you drove a soft roader to it maxium desiigned ability, it would still more than likely be less troublesome than a heavier 4wd driven to its maxium ability.

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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 01:50

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 01:50
Not alot right with a 60 series g box they had a bad habit of popping out of 5th certainly my 75 gearbox did and others i talked too were the same
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Follow Up By: Shane (QLD) - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 07:09

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 07:09
Davoe (Nullagine)

What K's approx do they start jumping out of 5th. Mines a 83 5 speed with 253,000 K's & still going strong touch wood.
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Reply By: Kiwi Kia - Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 22:28

Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 22:28
Where do you think the generic name 'SUV' came from ? That's what they are building !

We use then off road and for hard yakka trips but that is not what they are designed for these days. The designer wants the 4wd on his drawing board to be used by families in the northern hemisphere, summer or winter, a little dust maybe followed by a little snow & ice.

Take a big car with no chassis, square the corners, big donk with transfer case and front drive shaft. Through in traction control etc etc. Put the dog and the fishing poles behind the back seat, add a couple of ankle biters, put swmbo in the front pass seat and got a modern 4wd.

AnswerID: 212940

Reply By: Outnabout David (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 23:16

Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 23:16
Maybe it is the driver in some cases.
There are plenty of vehicles used as four wheel drives with no problems but of course not many people post to forums saying I have driven 500,000k and not had problems.

Percentage wise I thinlk components stand up pretty well and the vehicles overall are better built and more reliable with little maintenance required compared to years gone by.

How many of you remember having to change points and plugs every 20K as well as fuel filters?

A lot of time people think they will save a buck by doing their own service and thats fine if they know what they are doing. I would like a dollar for every landcruiser out there running the wrong oil in the gearbox which itself can cause problems. Maybe Mr home mechanic doesent always notice tell tale signs of oil seals leaking which may just be a drip.But over time could mean oil levels are low.

No I think a lot of the problems are self inflicted, either lack of driver training or lack of maintenance and a lot of times this could be by the previous owner. People often go like a bull at a gate to go over obstacles putting undue stress on components.

Any way just food for thought and from 30 years in the 4wd business

AnswerID: 212947

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 23:57

Tuesday, Jan 02, 2007 at 23:57
Alot of problems are self inflicted, To those that may not be mechanically minded as others! Tech minded versus mech minded ??. My point is these slow oil leaks due to poor build quality, poor component quality, do lead to a multitude of premature mechcanical failure, but when considering the cost of these vehicles to begin with, and theirs a lot out there that have not been abused, BLOODY oil seals,
Bearings, & shafts should not have to be replaced in the first five years of the vechicles life.

Cheers Axle.
FollowupID: 473147

Reply By: F4Phantom - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:16

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:16
I think part of the reason is efficiency. Older sludge boxes may have been stronger but they also had 3 speeds and used nearly 30% of the engine power. We hear a lot about the ZF tranny in the new falcon BUT what we dont hear about is that ford are also friggin lazy and instread of trying harder to get efficiency from better engineering, they got ZF to modify the transmission for better efficiency. So now that ZF will last around 150,000 because it has smaller weaker components and is not the original ZF 6 that ZF had off the shelf. My bmw had a 4 speed ZF and it is the same box in the classic range rover, its tough as nails but makes the car use quite a bit more juice. So to get their cars to use less fuel they use more disposable boxes which cost more to rebuild. In fact if a 4 speed rebuild is 2.5K what is a 6 speed - 5k?
AnswerID: 212980

Follow Up By: Exploder - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 15:36

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 15:36
Of corse ford would have modified the transmission for there cars as do other companies, I believe we use different clutch packs and a few other things, also know body has been able to crack into the ECU on the transmission to make changes on shift points line pressures ECT> You can’t even install a AUX Transmission oil cooler on the thing yet as the Box picks up pressure changers and goes into limp mode.

I would say the Ford ZF would last a lot longer than 150,000K <I think the Ford/FPV Box is able to support constant 600Nm of toque and a one off of 2000Nm of toque
There a quite a few XR6 turbo’s and F6’s out there running over 350RWKW throe these Boxes and have been for some time and pulling low 11 second =miles too without any problems.

Brand new from Ford the Box is around $6200 from memory.

Schnitzer is the company that strengthens the ZF as part of an upgrade package for the hi-end 5 series and 7 series BMW,

Rebuilding the ZF isn’t difficult for a experienced builder, thou apparently the trend in Europe is if you Blow a Box you juts buy a new one rather than rebuild.

The hard choice I have to make shortly is whether I want to get the 6 speed Manuel or the ZF 6 speed auto with the new car.
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Follow Up By: FZJ 80 - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 23:30

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 23:30

If your BMW had the 4HP22 and you achieved 150000k's or more it's a miracle. The new ZF 6 speeds are substantially better than the old 4hp22 4 speed. I know of quite a few high mileage ones out there, one i know has done over 360000k's.


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Follow Up By: F4Phantom - Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 00:22

Thursday, Jan 04, 2007 at 00:22
I am happy to stand corrected. I got some of this info from guys who ought to know what they are on about. I cant confirm the 4HP22 thing but it sounds familiar. What I do know is that mine is good for a minimum of 250 and usually better. There are also differences in tranny problems, eg worn discs is kind of acceptable because they are basicly wearable parts. But if you have other problems where things get stressed out and break then that to me is a sign of a poor engineered box and this more likley to be the area of efficiency gains. You may disagree with me with the falcon zf box but I have spoken to some people who as I say, know more than me and they would confirm their thinking on the box not lasting very long. However, the proof is in the pudding, I and others can think what we like but if there are falcon zf's out there hitting 300, its either a fluke or they are long lasting boxes, that is proof enough for me. Time will tell.
FollowupID: 473416

Reply By: Andrew5691 - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 13:42

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 13:42
I think we all need to recognise that today's 4WDs (all cars for that matter) are a lot less like those of made as recently as 20 years ago. I was horrified when I finally found where they had hidden the spark plugs on my Challenger and did the mental calculation on how much it was going to cost me to replace them. I waxed ruefully to anyone that would listen about the good ol' days when changing spark plugs was an hour job tops. However I was comparing apples with oranges because in those days they were consumables whereas now they are not. The car has done 240k and the plugs may have been changed once so with that sort of life (similar to many timing belts) why would a manufacturer worry any more about making them accessible when to do so might be at the expense of other forms of efficiency. The same logic applies to Gearboxes. If making a car with a strong enough gearbox to last without concern means putting in a bigger thirstier motor to deliver the same performance then perhaps the economics favours the lighter more efficient gearbox even if that means more vigilant servicing to ensure they are being cared for. Just like we need change our view of spark plugs as a consumable we need to change our view that a gearbox/transmission is a large box of wheels that needs little if any attention during the life of the vehicle.
AnswerID: 213023

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 15:27

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 15:27
A couple of thoughts:

#1 The older 4wds were lucky to have 70Kw for a diesel or 100Kw for a petrol. Now they are double that, and in many cases the transmissions haven't been beefed up.

#2 People bolt on a turbo and wonder why the gearbox can't handle it. Toyota put a heavier gerabox behind the factory TDs.

#3 The autos seem to be more reliable than the manuals - its another good argument for going for an auto these days.

#4 Clutches are still not as good as the asbestos ones of the past.
AnswerID: 213033

Reply By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 22:30

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 22:30
My old T-Line International with 9 speed had 1,200,000Ks on it when I sold it back in 89and it had not been looked at and I think the Wynnes helped some too, admitedly it was a truck transmission but I don't see why they can't make 4x4 boxes to last a million Ks , today it's all a matter of trying to keep the weight down , everything is lighter ,
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AnswerID: 213110

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 23:18

Wednesday, Jan 03, 2007 at 23:18
Doug,! Glad your on the same wave lenght, It just amazes me you can pay $70,000 for a machine and can be chit scared to tow anything in top gear. Or if you do it falls apart!.

FollowupID: 473402

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