OT - Hoons

Yep; more effective than a 'possible' fine, 'if' you get caught.

Yep - it actually sends a couple of 'messages'

1) " one illegal act will result in another" and
2) " let's take the law into our own hands"

Hope both groups - the burn out group and the car vandals - get caught and have 'due process of the law' applied to them

If there were enough cops to go around and they bothered to turn up in a timely manner, people wouldn't take the law into their own hands. You need all the facts to determine exactly what happened... Are the actions of the residents simply those of frustrated people who over an extended period have found the police to be very inactive, inattentive, disinterested and that's if they even bother to turn up.

Gee Kiwi, you must think we have a decent legal system, not the farce we do have in this country.

the bacon in this place are worth as much as the pricks in Gov that ruin this state/country.

Unintelligible waffle - translation please? (Perhaps without the expletives to connect the words together)

You have problems understanding English?

I second that.

A burnout upsets some people, but doesnt destroy property.
A drift at an intersection doesnt destroy property either.
Wheres the need to torch someones car and make them without transport and entertainement for a month or 3?

If someone is going 100km/h down backstreets then thats a different story- thats where valve stem removers come in.

I'm with you Bucky, ol' mate!!!

Even "IF" the law did catch-up to these pr!cks, they'd probably get off with a severe whipping with a feather and good behaviour bond.

The message they received will be far more hard-hitting and make them sit up and think about their impact on the lives of other people. If they wanna do burnouts, let 'em get a CAMS licence and do it properly at a designated race track/drag strip etc.

Yep im with Bucky on this one, .
The cops cant come because there out there collecting revenue for Govt's that have factored $millions of back door taxes into there budgets.
Bugga the crime, we need money!

Cheers Pesty

Jeez Pesty, I agreed with Bucky and now YOU agree with him too. Don't tell me we finally agree on something?!

Now all I gotta do is convince you that Nissans eat Toyotas and you'll finally qualify to be called "smart". ;-))

Make me number three with Bucky !!!

Bucky for PM !!

and Pesty for treasurer ! Sorry Pesty, you don't qualify for PM as you drive one of them yota's :-))

Pezza

Judge, Jury and Executioner. Now that's and judicial system we need, NOT........What happens when your on the receiving end of these sort of antics by mistaken identity, people can get it wrong sometimes..........

Hey Teabag,

I guess "What happens when your on the receiving end of these sort of antics by mistaken identity" Probably the same thing as when the justice system gets it wrong, innocent people pay, but it doesn't change the fact that justice has to be served at times, so if the law can't catch-up to these pr!cks due to staffing or whatever reason I'm all for Bucky on this also. There are plenty of car clubs that cater for various driving, go there.

Blaze,

I agree that justice does need to be served out sometimes but I thought the burning of the vehicle in the driveway was over the top. The spray painting on the garage was fine but don't agree with burning a vehicle in the driveway as some innocent person may have got hurt.......

Gee I thought we lived in a community - the idea is to look after each other, live in harmony and be considerate of your neighbour. At the end of the day there will be someone around to make sure that you (we) receive a decent burial. So much for the ME factor.

That's a great ideal, Dio, and I like it but the fact that hoons are driving up an down a street where your kids may be shows that everyone isn't looking out for each other. Couple that with a poor justice system it is no wonder that people search for other solutions.

Although burning a car may be over the top, it could be considered that these actions are the actions of a community looking out for each other.

>Gee I thought we lived in a community - the idea is to
>look after each other

Many (most?) people in Oz don't even know the names of all their neighbours. Come out of your ivory tower DIO.

Mike Harding

LMAO Ivory Tower, another word for padded cell?

The problem for the police is actually catching the hoons in the act. Their stunts take (say) 30 seconds and are frequently performed on suburban residential streets, the chance of an officer being in any given place at any given time is slim.

If these people want to hoon around then go out into the country and find a bit of isolated ground where they can play cars until they finally kill themselves but don't do it in places where they put others at risk.

I'll bet that suburb doesn't see any more hoon driving.

Mike Harding

Yes, but two wrongs don't make it right. Anyone can report hoon driving to Police for them to take action (most mobile phones have video capability) though the action might be a little soft has our laws across the board are pretty soft.
WRT hoon driving what if the hoon didn't own the vehicle and was only borrowing it or these residents possibly burning the wrong vehicle? We have a legal system that is soft and needs stronger laws though this doesn't mean we should all become vigilantes even if it does make you feel better and where do you stop or draw the line?????

Hi Teabag,
In WA, the anti-hoon laws empower police to confiscate the vehicle for set periods, regardless of whose vehicle it is. And I recall that they've just increased the periods for repeat offenders to months.
Guess if it's a rented one, then the renter has to sort something out with the rental company. If it's a borrowed one, could be the end of a good friendship....
Gerry

My daughter had problems with hoons drag racing in front of her house.

More than one occasion, and usually during the early hours of a Sunday morn.

Asked local police person to see what he could do and was told..
"sit outside the house and get the rego, or better still borrow a video camera and take some pictures. He would then see what he could do"

Go figure.....and said police person only lives just around the corner.............!!!

No wonder people take the law into their own hands....

Michael

>
In WA, the anti-hoon laws empower police to confiscate the vehicle for set periods, regardless of whose vehicle it is. And I recall that they've just increased the periods for repeat offenders to months.

And there is talk (or may have even been legislated ??) that Joe public can report, providing they have sufficient evidence (photos, videos, etc) and the police will take action, which would be after the event, unwitnessed by the police.

Also, the punishment gets larger after repeat offences. If memory serves me correct, 24 hours initially, then somewhere around 48 hrs, then months, then permanently?? They have also included excessive speed into the anti hoon laws, 30+ ?? the speed limit and by by car

mike w,

These sort of laws should be National and possibly go a little further though they are down the right track......This neighbourhood could have collated evidence and presented it to Police for action, if the Police don't act then take a combined civil suit against the Hoons. Stand united has a neighbourhood if it is an issue......Now off soap box, I must admit it is very tempting sometimes to take this sort of action and it appears this was the last straw for these residents.......

I agee that burning a car is a bit over the top but with kids playing in the streets and the police too busy sitting on the side of another road with a radar gun getting their quota for the day some people just get bleep off.

One thing to remember is we were all young one time. Gee, what was the question :-)

Bonz, you are indeed in fine form. LOL :-))))))))

LOL ya think? hehehehehe

Do you really believe in the LAW? The cops were notified a number of times & did diddly squat....Sometimes a heaver hand needs to be employed & a hard target needs to be engaged with extreme prejudice.
If hoons were playing where my kids do i would probably do worse.
We all were young once & i myself used to drag but when we did it we went to the industrial estate where no cars or people were of a Friday night & nobody got hurt.
These days nobody cares they just lay rubber where ever & when ever with a total $hit box that is probably unroadworthy.
At least we used to take real pride in our cars & try not to disturb the peace in built up area,s & to some extent i think the cops let us be back then because we tried to keep our games to ourselves how times have changed & not for the better.
Total disrespect exists now & a cop cant give you a boot up the ass like they used to.
So if a "vigilante" has the desired effect on the mongrel element of our society then let it be.
Would you be upset if a paedophile was executed by a parent of that child? i know i would not be!
These hoons were doing burnouts regally where children played & lived & disturbing the peace of a night the police were informed but unable to catch them.
This went on for a very long time & finally the parents snapped with just cause.
Some times the LAW is a waist of time & justice must be dealt out by the public before someone innocent gets really hurt if the police are unable to stop the offenders.........................................666TOY

Thanks for you effort 666Toy.

Your analagy with the paedophile cannot be used in this instance. We are taking vandalism.

Again, how would you feel if your vehicle was trashed by someone because they thought that you personally, for quite some time, have destroyed the environment with your 4WD?

So what happens if the people with the trashed vehicles find out who did the damage? Do they punish the offenders because they cannot see any other choice that would work.

Enjoy your day,

Sean

Yeah i see where your coming from but hey I am sick to death of all the namby pamby attitude people have towards offenders. They know they done wrong They allso know next time it might mean one of them gets strung up or servilely bashed or shot .(the hoons)
There is Wright & wrong the power must be in the wrights favour at all times maybe you cant see what i am saying but people that commit crimes usually only understand one thing if they have no respect for the law & that is brute force.
Now if someone did what your saying to my 4x4 i would say they are mentally deranged not a criminal but i would probably belt the bastard to a inch of his life & hand him over to the cops but thats just me.
Maybe i sound radical so be it but it was the civil libertarian's that created the problems we have now by not letting the police do there job & teaching kids in school to be disrespectful.
What happened to the days that if you played up you got a kick up the ass by the copper.
Your parents gave you a flogging for being disrespectful
You had respect for the law because something happened when you made a complaint or did something wrong.
People are getting fed up you are seeing the result of a social experiment that has gone wrong. Expect to see more of it in the future .The wheel is coming to a full circle......666TOY

>> Let the police do their job
What galaxy are you in?

And therein lies a problem with doing things by "due process".

OPTION ONE:..................

The do-gooders would have you:

1). Approach the hoons and ask them politely not to do what they do (they'd tell you to F-off quick-time)

2). Now you need to write them a polite but firm letter, reiterating your displeasure with their hoon-able behaviour (that letter would be binned immediately)

3). Contact the Police and ask them to intervene (now they're starting to get annoyed that YOU are infringing on THEIR civil rights to do whatever THEY want to do)

4). After a few more steps along these lines, you finally snap and do the torching trick. Trouble is, they know who would have done this cos you're the one who's been stirring the pot......next thing; they burn your house down or similar

OPTION TWO...................

1). Don't complain to them; that way they won't know which neighbour in the street is p!ssed-off with them.

2). Maybe drop an anonymous note in their letter box informing them of your intention to do serious damage to their property if said hooning continues....(NOTE: this step is entirely optional and not really recommended as it might result in them being more vigilant as to any activity around their house)

3). (or "2" if you've decided to dispence with the above step).....Torch their chitty car straight away with the said graffitti on garage etc. They won't know which neighbour to blame. (NOTE: maybe not a good idea to follow this course of action if there are only 2 houses in your street...hahaha)

DISCLAIMER: The above is written somewhat tongue-in-cheek and I will not accept responsibility if you stand-up in court and say "Roachie told me to do it".....;-))

But Roachie, we now have your instructions in black and white and that would stand up in court as Roachies voice told me to do it. LOL
How's your court imdemnity insurance going?
At least no-one can accuse you of hoon driving, the PB couldn't spin it's wheels in custard.LOL
By the way Bill, happy New Year to you and Annette and the rug rats.

Thanks Des, and to you and Elaine too.

The new PB WILL be able to spin it's wheels in custard (we get up to some rather unusual practices over here you know!!) haha. We had to put-up with Pesty for New Year's Eve, but it was okay, cos he had Glenda and the 3 grand-kiddies with him, so he was busy all the time fetching, carrying and changing nappies.....so we didn't have to listen to his usual dribble about his 30 series cruiser etc.

It has always been happening, but because there are more cars on the road now and the media like to focus in on anything that creates ratings and public anger they beat it up.

All the Media reports I swear it’s always the same video footage they used in the same report they did 3 months earlier.

I honestly dont see that much of it, I don’t know maybe I live in the wrong suburb

I don’t think it has to do with driver education.

We have controlled events in WA> Every Wednesday at the motorplex in Kwinana you can go and do Burnouts and drag race ya mates, but you can’t accommodate everyone.

Some just prefer to do it on the street thou and some people just don’t give a chit about what you or the cop’s think and they are the ones that are hard to control and are going to be the problem.

1 car laying a bit of rubber throe a intersection dose nothing, 8 Cars all laying rubber all trying to out do each other is a problem.

I had to go the airport last night at Midnight going throe a roundabout on a quite road in the Industrial aria, roads were all wet so I kicked it a bit sideways when exiting then slid it back over and continued on my way. Don’t make a habit of doing that but

Made me smile, it didn’t hurt anyone, puts you in touch with the cars handling and keeps the old reflexes sharp

As always my opinions and no doubt many people will disagree.

Q#1. I think everyone has a little "hoon" in them but i believe driver education is the key but will it stop street hoons ? i doubt it but it might save a few lives
Q#2. Opening up drag & racetracks seems to work but penalties need to be extreme for it to have effect. (eg. permanent confiscation of vehicle no exceptions & 6 months jail no warnings no chances) it then would steer people to let off steam at the track & nowhere els because the penalties are to great if caught.
Also for this to work track days must be regular & run cheaply.
Q#3.When i was younger we all had hot cars & dragged of a Friday night at the local industrial estate & no one was hurt (apart from a few donks & diffs) but the attitude has changed from then till now. We still had respect for people sleeping & while we were all rebels we still had respect for the police (you would get a kick up the ass if you did not) Sure we all let a chirp go here & there but never any racing or burnouts in the streets where kids & people were.
Is it ok for others to do it ? with the right attitude & the correct place ..yes

Mate believe it on not I have been done for letting the tyres chirp a little as I pulled away from a stop sign on a bit of a greasy road, Completely accidental.

3 point’s $150, man was I bleep off. I have only just now got those points back after 3 years.

And there in lies the problem if the Cop feels like it he could do you for hooning and confiscate your car, as the tyres have lost traction if only for a second or 2 you are “Doing a burnout”.

In 1977 I drove 8000K around the UK in 5 weeks (in winter ..that's how stupid I was :)). In those 5 weeks I experienced 3 instances of poor driving.
At home I would have experienced 10 instances of poor driving on my way to work !

At that time a car was a luxury in the UK. Few young people could afford to buy or maintain a car. And those that could were very very protective of their investment.

All changed now of course.

When I was handed my license, the cop said "Congratulations, here's your license to kill."

These days he'd be strung up by the left one and hung out to dry by the bleeding hearts.

Maybe our culture needs changing ...in a few areas :))))))

>We have controlled events in WA> Every Wednesday at the motorplex in Kwinana you can go and do Burnouts and drag race ya mates, but you can’t accommodate everyone

Hmm, from all reports the ones that goe enjoy themselves. However they used to run the same at wanneroo, a safe, controlled and friendly environment, until one night some fresh coppers decided to yellow sticker every vehicle that exited the complex. Kinda ruined it. Now alot of the youngens would prefer to do in the streets, less chance of getting pinned by the boys in blue, and just as much fun. it is a shame though.

When I was younger and living in the SW, the local coppers flatly told all potential hoons " go up to the old air strip, do what you like, but for heaven sakes, dont do it in town" Everyone knew what went on, and they all tolerated it. And the amount of hooning in town???? Only occured when some blow in was passing through.

ahhh, the good days....

>I don't really believe any of you support vigilantes.... come on.

In the appropriate circumstances... I do.

Mike Harding

Im with Mike.

how do you feel royce with said imported people doing burnouts around other peoples young kids playing in the streets?? Not even their own street, or near their own houses?

If they have no respect, show them none.. then send them back to where they came from.

example, they have no control of their cars, kid gets killed, said piece of bleep gets slap on wrist, your kid is dead for simply playing in HIS OWN street.

Bring on the burnings.

Endanger me or my family & believe me your car might be burnt with the said offender in it !!!

It could be said that torching a car in someones driveway endangers THEIR family, where do we go then. Anarchy isnt too far away

Just for fun, give me one instance where a Hoon laying rubber has hit and killed or injured a kid playing in the street???

Exploder a 4 or 5 yo kid was killed i think in April last year on the gold coast.
I remember the new's stated that drugs & hooning was responsible.

A very quick search on Google returns this on the first page:

seven.com.au/todaytonight/story/?id=19512

Hmm.. you are worked up about this Mike. You must be coming back to this page to check what's been added...

Your link is certainly on the point. Burnouts are deadly. I HATE THEM... I DESPISE THE IDIOTS WHO DO THEM. I BOIL AT THEIR DISREGARD FOR THE PEOPLE AROUND THEM AND THEIR ARROGANCE.....

I don't however have a criminal problem where I go around burning people's cars and applying graffiti to property. My neighbour lets his cattle wander on the roads. Last night I phoned my wife returning from a late shift to warn her that they were on the road again. This is just as upsetting and just as deadly.

You know.... I have never considered burning his tractor or spray painting his hayshed. Or even shooting his cows or spray painting them.

I still don't believe you. I still think you are getting hot under the collar about this situation. You have backed off saying that you would burn the car... I don't even think you would have done the graffiti. I admire your anger.... I share it..... I FEEL like getting back at these losers. But you and I are good citizens. We don't react in an even worse behaviour to try to solve a problem.

Phew.. this is getting a bit wearing. I'm actually on the same side as all you supposed vigilante types. But just like you lot... it's a feeling, not something we would do.... even though we like the Charles Bronson movie idea....

I really like the idea of confiscation of vehicles... never to be returned and sold to add to hospital funding. I would certainly be out there with my video camera.

I am well aware of the deaths caused buy excessive speed and Drugs/ drunk driving on the road.

My question was specifically about any deaths from a “Hoon” doing a burnout I.E Spinning the tyres at take off, Hanging it out around a corner Ect, not loosing control of his car wile travling at double the speed limit on a wet road.

It read >
"The estimated speed was 150 km/h, that was in a 60km zone, the total impact speed was 190 km/h," Ms Price said.”

Hi Royce

>Hmm.. you are worked up about this Mike.

A bit – I made a post to this forum 6 to 12 months ago about a similar problem outside my house although nowhere near as bad as the Mill Park thing and it has quietened down a lot of late.

>You must be coming back to this page to check what's been added...

The system automatically e-mails me the contents of follow-ups to any threads which I have posted in.

>You have backed off saying that you would burn the car...

Burning the car was a major (perhaps silly?) option which could have resulted in a serious situation had the fire spread to the house or the petrol tank explode.

>I don't even think you would have done the graffiti.

Yes I would and had I been pushed hard enough I would have gone even further.

>But you and I are good citizens. We don't react in an even worse
>behaviour to try to solve a problem.

Essentially you’re correct (well… about me anyway and I’ll take your word about you :) but, Royce, there _must_ come a point (even for you?) when you have tried everything, and most of it ten times, doing things “the proper way” and nothing happens, see the post from “mcgra (Vic)” further down. When your daily life is being made hell by some d!ckhead who has zero regard for anyone but himself and long experience has shown “The Authorities” will not do anything _then_ is the time to look after yourself and allow natural justice to take it’s course – what’s the alternative, move house, suffer a breakdown?

You may utter fine words about “community”, “ordered society”, “protection of the law” etc, etc… but at the end of the day the only person who will really look after Royce is Royce.

-----------------------------

Hi Exploder

Somewhat selective editing you did there. Just before your quote it also said:
-----
For Judy Gillon, such high speeds were no laughing matter after her only son, 21-year-old Christopher was killed by an out of control hoon. Chris died when a car driven by Scott Cottam, who was reportedly doing burn-outs in wet weather before losing control of his car, crossed two lanes and a medium strip and ploughed into Chris' car.

A passenger in Chris' car, Kylie Price, was in a coma for six days after the accident and suffered horrific injuries.
-----

This is just on the first page of Google - I'm sure if you did a through search you would find other examples.

Mike Harding

good thinkin exploder..
lets wait for someone to be killed, then complain... Genius.

Got that bit mike, the Article was somewhat unclear as to whether he had lost control of his car well doing a burnout or whether he had been doing burnouts and at a later point well travelling at 150km/h lost control.

“For Judy Gillon, such high speeds were no laughing matter after her only son, 21-year-old Christopher was killed by an out of control hoon. Chris died when a car driven by Scott Cottam, who was reportedly doing burn-outs in wet weather before losing control of his car, crossed two lanes and a medium strip and ploughed into Chris' car.

A passenger in Chris' car, Kylie Price, was in a coma for six days after the accident and suffered horrific injuries.

"The estimated speed was 150 km/h, that was in a 60km zone, the total impact speed was 190 km/h," Ms Price said.”

Now surly he was not doing a burnout well travelling at 150km/h?

Truckster> I am just asking a question for my own clarification on how many kids get killed buy somebody doing a burnout that's it.

Exploder ..... .How fine a line is it between 'hanging the back out a bit' & losing control?

Depends a chit load on the type of car and who is driving it, and how good they like to think they are.

Re> the "Hoons" you seen on the news all the time like to think they are better than they are.

Who have a 26 year old son living at home.

and reading the rest of the article, the locals are scared of the people in that house and one other across the road..

I would not have burned the car but I would have done the graffiti thing - spoiling their pride and joy may make the little bastards sit up and think.

They operate in such a manner that they _know_ they are going to antagonise most of the neighbourhood - if you regularly pi$$ people off you should not be surprised when, one day, they retaliate.

Mike Harding

so Royce, what do you do after you have called the cops about nightly for 3-4 mths and never seen the bacon turn up once? move?

bleep them, make them move...

paint and brake fluid are cheap by the 4ltr...

Mikes last sentence says it all.

Royce you don't know the history nor what other actions had been taken. Vigilante action isn't the first option, it never is. Sane people are driven to insane acts by a series of annoyances, often over a long period of time.

It can be something as simple as throwing cans over someone's fence, time after time after time after time until someone snaps, and its usually the "normal" person that snaps, does something they regret for the rest of their lives, and all hell breaks loose.

I reckon you're right, no one here would promote vigilante action as a first resort, but until one knows the WHOLE story one cannot assume to understand diddly squat. Mikes last comment about sums that up.

I think Royce, maybe asking you lot to put yourself in the shoes..

Bonz is this the action you would take?

Trucky?

Mike?

being a "Vigilante" is like hitting someone in the back of the head,,, it's not worth IT.. THEY CAN"T SEE YOUR FACE...

Hi Toy

For Gawds sake Richard - try making a sensible post.

>I would not have burned the car but I would have done the graffiti thing
>At the end of the day; you have to look after yourself in this world.
>In the appropriate circumstances... I do.
Gees Mike I don't know what your on about...

Richard I cant tell what action I would take as I havent lived thru the experience, neither can anyone I believe. We all feel good when someone "gets their comeuppance", but how can we put ourselves in others shoes? We can only empathise and think what we would do in similar circumstances, nothing else IMHO.

That's right, all I ways saying, is that's what I thought Royce way trying to say, I was young once and to many still are,, I had some of the thoughts that some on the forum have,, but today I think a lot different.. (to read or hear something is not good enough)

I don't have kids.. why, because I could not teach them to be good people...

how could look them in the eye and say you shouldn't do this or that ... what a joke..

Getting back at someone is not a good thing.. to me this is one of the problems we face today

The further you have been somewhere the more you see coming back..

Richard I usually let comments go by but your crap above defies belief. This crap in particular:

I don't have kids.. why, because I could not teach them to be good people...

how could look them in the eye and say you shouldn't do this or that ... what a joke..

Are u really saying your morals are so poor and your instructional skills and communication skills are so woeful that you could not impart a level of "goodness" What a load of tripe. And to cite that as the reason you don't have kids is ridiculous. It doesnt matter what we have done in our past, in many cases we were all wayward in one way or another, that doesnt mean we cant tell right from wrong and do so in a parenting way.

I know this is OT but your comment on this is absolute bullshirt. Sounds like a copout to me. Noone is that scared or that vain that they would blame themselves for doing their best as a parent. What in heavens name do yoou say to the dog when you have its balls disconnected from the rest of it? Can't you look him in the eye either OMG your laughable.

Lots of young people say the 'I wouldn't have kids' thing. It's just lack of life's experience.

I think all he meant to say was that the world is not as nice as it could be.

1. Hoons act up
2. Arsonists and graffitists act up.
3. People talk a lot about it in innapropriate ways.... and vote for Pauline.

Yer I agree Royce I hope so anyway

Bonz

No problem with morals, I wouldn't say what I say on this site.. but I do have a problem with being a hypocrite, tell someone something knowing you have done the opposite.

I have and still do teach many people young and old.. but no child of mine, I would and haven't found the need to take that responsibility.

We have female dogs. I just can't get it,, the thing about looking at a set of balls and a dick.. but thats us..

Richard

By the way .. to many big words I had to look in the dictionary 4 time just to write this post.. :+)

Richard I dont think it is hypocritical to pass on the benefit of your experience to others, if you did it and think someone else shouldnt thats not hypocritical. Hypocritical is telling someone not to do something and going out and doing it yourself.

hy·poc·ri·sy (h-pkr-s)
n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies
1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
2. An act or instance of such falseness.

I cant stand that either

I said I used the dictionary,... Not read It..

Tell your kid ..do not steal son,, he ask why not dad have you.. yes son but I am telling you not too.. do as I say not as I do.. see may point

Reply goes something like this, Well to tell you the truth yes I have done that [insert stupid thing here] and the result was [insert horrid result here] and what I learnt from the whole tawdry episode was not to [reinsert stupid thing here].

I see your point, I just think that experience is better shared, and children are indeed a blessing.

>and its probably a total fire ban day too :-)

Brilliant! :)