another wire question

Submitted: Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 17:51
ThreadID: 41001 Views:1797 Replies:4 FollowUps:10
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if you have a 8awg cable rated at 100amps and run it 10mtrs and the draw was 15 amps, what voltage drop would you get? now IF YOU HAD THE SAME CABLE AND THE SAME 10 MTRE LENTH AND THE SAME 15 AMP DRAW but you ran three of the cables together would you have 300 amp cable and one third the voltage drop?
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Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:10

Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:10
Current rating of a wire is only an indication of what the wire will handle before the insulation degrades. Your single piece of wire will have a certain resistance (arguments sake 0.1 ohm). Three runs of that same cable over the same length with the same current drawn, will be 1/3 of the resistance, ie 0.033333 ohm.

The bit that people really miss is that it doesn't really matter how much the "current capacity" of the cable is, but it is the resistance of that cable that is the main factor when wiring things up.

In you example if you had a 15 amp draw using my 0.1 ohm resistance Then by V= IR =15 x 0.1= 1.5volts, then you would develop a voltage drop along the length of the cable of 1.5 volts, meaning you put 12 volts in one end and at the other end (with the load applied) you will see 10.5 volts.

+12-----------load---ground
............^
.....1.5v drop here

this is obviously not good if you like your coldies in the bush (fridge cuts out way to early despite battery being fine at its terminals)

The solution as you alluded to is to run bigger cable, or do multiple runs of the same cable hooked up in parallel. In this situation (of our example) you end up with V = IR = 15 x 0.033333 = 0.5 volts lost along the cable length. Go celebrate with a coldie.....you fridge still works as it is still getting 11.5 volts.

Coldies, the universal education tool...............lol!
AnswerID: 214059

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:22

Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:22
As an aside, CPU's in computers regularly push 10's of amps down wires that are no thicker than your hair, but only for a VERY short distance (fractions of a mm). They can do this because there is very little voltage drop over those short distances, and therefore very little dissipated heat, so the wire will not "blow" like a fuse.
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:33

Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:33
8 awg is .000739 ohms per foot. Your 10 metre = 33 feet

Therefore 33 x .000739 = 0.024387 ohm over the length of a single wire.

Recalculating for the real values you would expect...

15 x 0.024387 = 0.366 volts of actual voltage drop.

or 0.122 volts with the three paralleled up.

This does not include any "return path" resistance in the negative side of the story, whether it be chassis, or a separate earth line back to the battery (effectively doubling the voltage lost along two lengths of cable). All the same electrical principles apply.
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Reply By: Member - Garth J (NSW) - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:15

Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:15
Chips,
Voltage drop depends on the resistance per metre of the cable.

Calculate using E= I * R.

Subtract this result from the applied voltage.

Yes you could draw 300amps if the cables are in parallel.
Therefore the resistance of the three in parallel would be less than one cable.
This is because you have three times the cross sectional area of cable.

This is mathematically proved by the following

Total resistance of parallel resistances equals

1/R = 1/r1 + 1/r2 + 1/r3

The total resistance is less than the value of the smallest resistor is the easy way to remember parallel circuits.

Hope this helps

Garth
AnswerID: 214061

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:18

Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:18
he was only talking about drawing 15 amps.....not 300.
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Follow Up By: Member - Garth J (NSW) - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:27

Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:27
But he could if he really wanted to....
And no dead shorts.....

Lets hope he has a fuse in circuit. LOL

Cheers
Garth
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FollowupID: 474332

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:35

Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:35
gotta love the "smoke conduits".....
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Follow Up By: disco1942 - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 19:48

Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 19:48
The figures of "300 A" being quoted as the maximum current rating has to be qualified. The maximum current rating of a single cable can be thought of as the maximum current above which the cable will self destroy itself if that figure is exceeded. This only applies with the cable in free air. If you bury the cable in a duct or pipe, or bundle it in amongst other cables its rating is reduced. This is because you have impeded the air flow around the cable. The more cables you bundle together the more the rating is reduced.

When we deal with extra low voltages, if you are drawing anything like 1/4 of the cables rated current you probably are suffering too much voltage loss and we should be looking for a larger cable.

PeterD
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FollowupID: 474347

Reply By: Robin - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:37

Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:37
Hi Chips59

8 guage cable is rated at around 60a with resistance approx .0025/m and so your 10m of cable at 15amps would drop around 0.37v or 1/3 of a volt approx.

3 in parallel does give 3 times the rating and 1/3rd the volts drop.

Robin Miller

AnswerID: 214069

Follow Up By: chips59 - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:54

Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:54
the rating on the side of the reel says 8awg,100 amp.
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Follow Up By: Robin - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 21:07

Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 21:07
100amp rating is technially possible as ratings are on its survivabilty not volts drop, but it is in effect wrong , and very wrong if you intend to group cables together in automotive application.

Some other answers in thi post also have wrong data
If lookin for a technical reference for backup to what I said try -

www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

Robin Miller
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Wednesday, Jan 10, 2007 at 11:39

Wednesday, Jan 10, 2007 at 11:39
The conversation when the buyer was setting up the contract with the Manufacturer most probably ended with " . . . .and what current rating do you want printed on the 8Ga cable"
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Reply By: chips59 - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:50

Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 18:50
i am running two 60 ltre everkools in the camper. I started with main battery then red ark to aus. battery then 3x 8awg cables x 300 mm to 60 amp auto circuit breaker then 3 x 8awg 4mtres to anderson plug (175amp) then 2mtres of 3x 8awg to 2nd 60 amp auto breaker then 3x8awgx 300mm to two 100amp hour deep cycles in parallel. then one 8awg 2.5mtres to one fridge and another 8awg 2.5 mtres to the other fridge. both with 20 amp auto circuit breakers. the reason i am using 8 awg is because i have a few rolls of the stuff.
AnswerID: 214074

Follow Up By: Keith_A (Qld) - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 19:53

Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 19:53
Hi Chips - glad you added the last sentence - I was imagining the spaghetti wiring ( 3-3-3-3) and trying to figure out WHY?
Technicians/mechanics/programmers as you probably know have the stock answer for such difficult questions : GOK.
This highly technical term is generally not fully understood by the public, so gets the tech off the hook . If pushed for an explanation they have to admit it stands for- God Only Knows.
So - thanks for adding the last sentence.............................Keith
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