What do you folks rekon?

Submitted: Sunday, Jan 14, 2007 at 22:24

ThreadID: 41217 Views:3139 Replies:11 FollowUps:23

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chumpion

First off, I normally log in under "chump_boy" - it has been a while, but some of you may remember me...

Now, I bought a 3 way fridge on Saturday morning from a camping store in North Parramatta - they were labeled as "Wet Pallet Damage", or something along those lines, and were not in boxes or anything. They were just Jackeroo units, nothing fancy, but for $299 for a 35L frdge, we thought we would grab one, and give it a go.

We got it home, and it just refused to work on mains power. I had a bit of a look around, and noticed a few cracks in the case, and that the cutting board had been used extensively! The lovely new-looking one I had chosen had been put back on display, and this other one was loaded into my car from the back dock. Silly me didn't check that the same one was brought out.

So I put all the bits and pieces back in, and trundled off to the camping store I bought it from to get a refund. I figured one was worth the risk, but wasn't too keen on getting a second one, if you know what I mean.

Now, this was Sunday afternoon, a full day after buying it, and they refused to return my money until the unit had been sent to Melbourne for verification! A process that would take at least 2 weeks, despite the fact they could just plug the thing into an outlet, and see it was not working. To say I was annoyed was an understatement.

I made sure other shoppers knew they were refusing to give my money back, so hopefully a couple heard, and went elsewhere...

Now, I am going back in tomorrow morning to demand my money from the manager, but I was wondering if anyone else had any other suggestions. I have printed out the relevant pages from the Department of Fair Trading to show them, and we are taking 4 kids to let loose in the tents while we negotiate.

Sorry - I really just needed a bit of a vent more than anything.....

Cheers,

Chump

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Reply By: Carl & Kaz - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 08:01

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 08:01

If they don't give you your money back straight away after a reasonably voiced request, start to raise your voice in an authoritative way and demand your right to a refund. You sound well prepared, just don't back down!

Be very loud and obnoxious and make sure every potential customer in the shop knows about the swifty they pulled in the loading dock. Don't back down!

Stay there, even if they walk away from you, and continue to tell everyone in the place what scum they are. Don't leave if they threaten to call the police - ask them to please go ahead as it will save you a phone call! They have stolen your money so you want the police involved! Don't back down!

If none of that works, did you pay by credit card? If so ring the card supplier and tell them the charge from that store is fraudulent and you want it stopped. Don't back down!

If none of that works, tell all of us. I for one will gladly walk in, ask to speak to the manager, and tell him why I am buying some very expensive equipment that I am in the market for elsewhere!!!!!

DO NOT BACK DOWN!

AnswerID: 215363

Follow Up By: chumpion - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 08:08

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 08:08

Cheers - hopefully I'll talk to the manager today, and get it all sorted out.

What really erks me (apart from the swap) is that they were fine to swap the fridge, or offer store credit, just not return my money!

I'll let you know what happens when I ring them at nine this morning.

Cheers

FollowupID: 475636

Follow Up By: Carl & Kaz - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 08:32

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 08:32

Didn't realise they had already conceded that there was a problem by offering a swap or store credit. Give it to 'em with both barrels if they give you a hard time!!

If they don't co-operate, post the store details here.

FollowupID: 475642

Reply By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 08:28

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 08:28

Why not let us know the name of the store. That will allow those of us who wish to do so avoid them like the plaque.

Ian

AnswerID: 215365

Follow Up By: chumpion - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 11:28

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 11:28

Ian,

Please don't get me wrong - they are offering a refund, but it will take a couple of weeks to get it.

And there is no way I can 100% say for certain that the unit was swapped between the counter and the back dock - I didn't check serial numbers or anything. It just looked in worse condition than I remebered, and the cutting board had been used!

I have calmed down a little bit now, enough to have faxed them accross a fairly neutral and factual letter with my complaints, and lodge a complaint with Fair Trading.

I'll just have to wait and see what happens now.

FollowupID: 475682

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 11:41

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 11:41

I'm intrigued; what is the "cutting board" in a fridge?

FollowupID: 475686

Follow Up By: chumpion - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 12:06

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 12:06

They have this little cutting board on top that is removable - just a little oval shaped white PVC cutting board, same as the ones in your kitchen.

I thought it was actually a good idea - they clip in nicely, and don't protude at all.

FollowupID: 475692

Reply By: chumpion - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 09:22

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 09:22

OK - I have just got off the phone from the store manager, and I am just gobsmacked!!!

The store is Kangaroo Tent City, in North Parramatta.

I was told "the problem is all in my mind" (his exact words) until the manufacturer can determine wether there is a problem or not! Despite the fact the unit was dead on arrival! The staff there are unwilling to plug the unit in, and see that it is faulty, and duly return my money.

They offered me store credit, or a replacement fridge right there on the spot, yet would not simply give my money back until they had verified that the unit was faulty.

This seems contrary to the Department of Fair Tradings guidelines, that state a refund must be provided is the unit is not fit for it's intended purpose.

It's a shame too - they had some really cheap tents we were looking at as well...

Cheers,

Chump

AnswerID: 215374

Follow Up By: Carl & Kaz - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 09:32

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 09:32

Did you get the managers name? What is it?

Ring dept fair trading now, explain the situation and ask them to ring the manager immediately on your behalf!

I am ringing now to voice my disapproval!

FollowupID: 475657

Follow Up By: chumpion - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 09:57

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 09:57

I rang the DoFT, and the lady I spoke to didn't really understand the problem.

She thought they were within their rights, as a refund was offered, but wasn't sure if it should be immediate, or actually after the store verifies what the problem is.

I just assumed that if a product was DOA, I was entitled to an immediate refund, exchange or repair, and it was my choice. I know when I was selling winches it was that way.

Let me just say as well that they have not refused a refund, they have just refused to check the fridge in store. They have to send it to Melbourne to determine that it doesn't switch on on 240v power.

Anyway, I have sent a fax to them, stating I want a refund, and why I think I should get one immediately. I'll have to wait and see what happens.

I was going to go down the route of cancelling the Credit Card payment, but I bought a few other things that day, and would have to return them as well. And one of them has already been used.

Cheers,

Chump

FollowupID: 475662

Follow Up By: chumpion - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 11:31

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 11:31

Carl & Kaz,

Did you end up ringing? What were your thoughts about them?

You can email me offline if you want - 4wd4wd at gmail dot com. I want to keep this site as factual as possible, and try to not get other people involved online - offline on email is fine though.

Cheers,

Chris

FollowupID: 475683

Reply By: Member - Andrew W (SA) - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 09:37

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 09:37

Hey chump_boy - sorry to hear things went pear-shaped.

Drop me an email when you've got a moment - andrew at vividadventures dot com dot au ... want your advice on something.

I'm sure things'll work out fine.

Cheers
Andrew.

AnswerID: 215377

Follow Up By: chumpion - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 10:01

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 10:01

*email sent*

And things will work out - I'm just annoyed at their attitude, and disappointed that they wouldn't just plug the fridge in. I'm sure I'll get my money back eventually.

I am half expecting to get a phone call in a couple of weeks saying it is working fine, and to come and pick it up. Then I'll be annoyed.

They have lost one customer in me, which is a shame, because we are in the market for a new tent. They had a couple of good ones on display for pretty cheap. And I'm always buying little bits and pieces - I'm sure it adds up over a few years.

Cheers,

Chris

FollowupID: 475663

Reply By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 11:24

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 11:24

Thanks for naming the store, I've been listening to their advertisements on 2WS (FM107) and had made a mental note to find out where their store was and check it out.

You have just saved me a bit of time and ensured that I will send off an Email to the store explaining why I won't be visiting.

Ian

AnswerID: 215396

Follow Up By: chumpion - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 11:34

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 11:34

Thanks for that,

I'll give them a buzz this afternoon, and see if their attitude has changed a little...l

In their defence, they do have a lot of stock, and there are quite a few bargains to be had.

It is just their store return policies, and the attitude of staff that I am upset at.

Cheers,

Chris.

FollowupID: 475685

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 13:44

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 13:44

I don't get it. They offered an immediate exchange and you knocked it back.

AnswerID: 215425

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 13:49

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 13:49

Agree Phil. Since the stock was marked as possibly damaged you'd have to expect the odd problem. The easiest thing would be to try one as an exchange THEN work on a refund.

FollowupID: 475703

Follow Up By: chumpion - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 13:55

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 13:55

I was perfectly happy to go with an exchange - until they said no refunds, except after sending it away for verification. This seemed very fishy to me, as they could simply plug it into the wall, and verify it wasn't working. Any other shop would just accept it was broken, then go from there.

As a customer here in NSW, I have every right to demand my money back when returning a faulty item within the warranty period. The fact that it was DOA, I brought it back the very next day unused, and I am positive it wasn't the one I picked out, just made me determined to get my money back.

As it turns out, I am glad I stood my ground, and demanded my money back.

FollowupID: 475708

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 14:03

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 14:03

"I was perfectly happy to go with an exchange - until they said no refunds"

Sounds like you were more interested in arguing their policies than purchasing the fridge.

A lot of people would have at least tried the exchange before pressing the "Refund" button :))) Everyone's different though.

FollowupID: 475709

Follow Up By: chumpion - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 14:30

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 14:30

I can see your point, but to my way of thinking, the first was a trial, it didn't work, so I wasn't incredibly fussed about another one. If they had have been easy going, had a look at it, and just been reasonable, I would have happily taken another one, safe in the knowledge that any future problems would be considered fairly. As it is, I'll get my money back, save up a little, and go somewhere else.

You know how you sometimes walk into a shop, undecided, and just decide to see how it pans out?

The fact they brought up refunds not being an option until after being sent away for a couple of weeks and confirmed, before I said what I wanted just made something inside me tweak. I kind of thought to myself - gee - what happens when the second one doesn't work?

Something just didn't sound right, so I decided I just wanted my money back then and there.

And a lot of people on this forum have either chatted to me, or read my posts in the past. I am pretty much a regular, and I don't think I am too unreasonable a person. I buy a fair bit of stuff, and I rekon sometimes you just have to go with what you feel.

Cheers,

Chris

FollowupID: 475713

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 14:49

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 14:49

Chris,

In the end, it's your money we're talking about. You have every right to demand a refund, exchange item or store credit whichever suits your purposes.

I've done a bit of shopping at that establishment as well but, luckily, never had a problem. I have no connection with them whatsoever except as a customer.

LOL I've had occasion to be 'the customer from Hell' at some establishments because something did'nt seem right, the item was crap, the service was crap, etc etc etc. I know where you're coming from :)))

The fact that they would'nt even try it out at the store is a bit suspicious, I agree. In your position, I'd have demanded that they try out any exchange unit, that's for sure.

FollowupID: 475717

Follow Up By: chumpion - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 15:04

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 15:04

I'd love to see them try out the 240v, 12v and the gas.....

It's hard to describe, isn't it? That feeling of "you know what? I'll take my money elswhere".

Anyway's we'll see what happens. I'll get my money back either way - I'd just rather it was sooner rather than later.

Cheers,

Chris

FollowupID: 475721

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 17:15

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 17:15

Chump,
I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
That store has offered immediate exchange for another item. There is no requirement for them to refund your money, but they are willing to do so with a 2 week delay. That is generous of them.

I don't think they deserve the bad press you are giving them.

AnswerID: 215469

Follow Up By: chumpion - Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:32

Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:32

In NSW at least the store has to offer a refund, replacement or repair, and it is the customers choice. Have a look at www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au.

Stores are also not allowed to display "No Refund" signs.

I don't know what other states are like, but thats the way it works here.

FollowupID: 475876

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 at 10:03

Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 at 10:03

The store may argue that they offered immediate replacement and you have "changed your mind" which is not an entitlement for refund.

FollowupID: 475895

Reply By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 17:52

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 17:52

Don't know if its with all there stores but the bloke up here at the Penrith Kangaroo Tent City is an ignorant pri@k and I told him so as well and walked out. The other staff are very nice but this one bloke is a total assh@le, my wife was a bit annoyed with me for going off at him but it was my way of letting other customers in the shop know the sort of pr@ck they were dealing with. Have I ever bought any thing from there again no way and I never will. Go for it and give it to them. And yes you are entitled to a full refund don't let them tell you otherwise. I been through the same crap with fair trading and got what I wanted by not backing down. You start off nicely no yelling screaming etc when they totally start spinning you bullsh@t then let them have it but make sure of what you are saying so you don't make a di@k of yourself. Regards Steve M

AnswerID: 215473

Reply By: Outnabout David (SA) - Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 22:09

Monday, Jan 15, 2007 at 22:09

"they were labeled as "Wet Pallet Damage", or something along those lines, and were not in boxes or anything. They were just Jackeroo units, nothing fancy, but for $299 for a 35L frdge, we thought we would grab one, and give it a go. "

This statement in itself tells me you were buying with the knowledge of a certain risk.

They offerd an exchange which you should have taken and now you may have to wait a bit longer for your money back. i think you are lucky to get that.

Sounds like a bit of buyers remorse to me and the shop owner shouldn't have to put up wuth the abuse or ridicule he is getting here.

How many people here are business people , tradesman etc who would like the shellacking given here.

I think you should take the exchange or wait for your money and just do it quietly.
Seems to me he has done everything right from the original warning sign.

AnswerID: 215550

Follow Up By: Eddy - Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 at 00:07

Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 at 00:07

"We got it home, and it just refused to work on mains power. I had a bit of a look around, and noticed a few cracks in the case, and that the cutting board had been used extensively! The lovely new-looking one I had chosen had been put back on display, and this other one was loaded into my car from the back dock. Silly me didn't check that the same one was brought out. "

Cracks in the case.
Used cutting board.

Wet pallet damage? since when did water cause cracks and knife cuts.

Sometimes it is helpfull to read the original post and be a little gentle.

A reputable business owner will give a full refund or replacement promptly

An exchange is of little use to a buyer who has suffered a loss of faith in the shop owner.

FollowupID: 475859

Follow Up By: chumpion - Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:42

Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:42

Thanks Eddy - thats part of it as well.

I was pretty annoyed when I originally posted, but I have cooled down a little now.

These fridges were marked as water damged, but still workable. Not secondhand. Not repaired. Would you want to use a cutting board that someone else had been using to cut all sorts of things?

In NSW at least, if I want my money back, I am entitled to it if the unit doesn't work. Simple as that. The Fair Trading website spells it all out.

And as it turns out, that gut feeling I had when I was told the returns process was right - they are not a shop I would want to deal with again.

I guess I/we should let this go, and I'll let everyone know when the money is received, and that will be the end of it.

Cheers,

Chris

FollowupID: 475878

Follow Up By: loughma - Wednesday, Jan 17, 2007 at 15:21

Wednesday, Jan 17, 2007 at 15:21

Just 2 questions.

1) 3 way fridge ... plugged into 240 volt ... didn't work.
How long did you wait to see if it cooled down.
3 way fridge doesn't have a motor to switch "on" so you can't hear any noise ... silent operation. Can take quite a while for them to start to feel cool on inside.
How do you know it wasn't working?

2) Is the store that you bought it from a warranty service provider?
How can a retailer "test" to see if a fridge is faulty? This would be a job for a 3 way fridge service centre (fridge mechanic). Most fridge brands have a network of these around Australia.

I would have thought that the manufacturer's warranty was provided by the manufacturer and therefore it would seem correct that fridge would need to be checked by warranty service provider.

Just my thoughts.

FollowupID: 476208

Follow Up By: chumpion - Wednesday, Jan 17, 2007 at 16:15

Wednesday, Jan 17, 2007 at 16:15

I waited initially a couple of hours, then overnight, with a couple of thawed out ice bricks in there. I figured that would be long enough.

Ummm - they could have plugged it into a wall socket, and listened for the hum? They could have tried the 12v socket?

The long and the short of it is that it was dead on arrival, and the store was happy to swap it, or offer store credit, just not refund. This is against the law in NSW. It was easy enough to check it, but they refused to, and were very arrogant and rude about it.

When they told me the problem was all in my mind, I kinda figured I had made the right choice in not dealing with them again.

Cheers,

Chris

FollowupID: 476220

Reply By: haagendrinker - Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 at 11:02

Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 at 11:02

Chump,you now say that you're not sure that they did do a swap out the back or not ,so without evidence to back this up I dont think you should be bad mouthing them. bleep happens mate and we all know this worlds not perfect. So if you have to wait a couple of weeks to get your money back, and if this is the worst thing that happens to you, then its been a good couple of weeks.

AnswerID: 215615

Follow Up By: chumpion - Wednesday, Jan 17, 2007 at 16:19

Wednesday, Jan 17, 2007 at 16:19

I know, I know. I said further up I wasn't sure if they swapped it, but I am pretty positive I know which one I picked out.

bleep happens, I know, and I will get my money back. It could have been a lot worse.

Chris

FollowupID: 476222

Reply By: chumpion - Thursday, Jan 18, 2007 at 06:31

Thursday, Jan 18, 2007 at 06:31

All's good now - I have had a long chat to the owner, and taken another fridge. He was very good - much better than dealing with a staff member.....

It seems the one I had was actually a second hand one, and that was very weird, as none of the other units were second hand at all. They just had scuff marks and things from transit. This one appeared to be a one off for some reason.

And I have been assured that if there is any problem with this fridge, I will be getting my money back immediately.

Thanks for your comments through this folks - they were very helpful.

Cheers,

Chris

AnswerID: 216080

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