newbies and 4bies

Submitted: Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 12:50
ThreadID: 41388 Views:2992 Replies:10 FollowUps:12
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Hi like to introduce myself, I'm chris and on the 11/01/07, i helped three lots of people out with my 87 4runner. Girl and i had decided a nice little bbq lunch up at fingal bay, port stephans area of nsw, we accessed the beach via the lavis lane entry, fun to exprienced people, misfortune to the unwary! At the metro servo setup my baby, tyres: check 10psi, hubs: check, locked and cocked, Driving slowly down to dirt before hitting beach, i had a thought, lets see how far the 4runner will go before i have to change into 4wd, well got onto soft stuff in 2wd and going good started bogging down about 300m in and changed on the fly, ie slow almost stopped. cruising along in 2nd gear and came upon a ford territory bellied, pulled up and asked the passenger if wanted a snatch, passenger said, "no hubby up track getting friends to tow them out", "so okies have a good day", get a 100metres up track sure enough there's a mitsubishi pajero bellied as well, ok pull up and offer assistance, yes, we need assistance, so out with the snatch, now snatching is an art to be very careful, oops i stuffed that up , looped the hooks on the snatch afetr turning around setup my travel path by going forward about 30 feet, and reversing on that path, hooked the snatch over towball after clearing a path for the wheels to go under pajero, and letting tyres down to 15 psi , then proceeded to snatch then out, well that went easy for my first snatch, got him out easy with a gentle pull. Now the next one we cleared the sand and forgot to let down the tyres , but ended up pulling him all the way back to the harder stuff in reverse, the was a gentle pull as well. After chattin to them a bit they were really nice people still learning there vehicles, passed on some knowledge that i leraned from reading this forum, and practical watching my brother in law and sister do snatchs. They asked if i want anything for it and i said NO, but if they can help someone please help them as a curtisee for others. The third snatch was fun, no hooks up front for nissan pathfinder/patrol, so had to go under vehicle to attcah the snatch to crossmember, wrapped an old shirt around crossmember so as not to do any damage to strap, well he had a buggy on a trailer, hadnt let down his tyres or the trailers, so first things first, 10 - 15 psi on the tyres, all round, atach snatch strap set up runway first then start motors an snatch , well trying to do this up a slight sand hill was fun, i hind site we should have taken buggy of trailer and sntached him out and let the buggy drive out, and finally got to fingal bay and no bbq's so went back to the next bay and found one and a park right across the street. Enjoyed bbq.
Lessons learned that day,
1, buy two rated shackles,
2, bring shovel,
3, bring soap, extra towel and another shirt (whites not good doing snatch work in)
4, get solid mounting points on front and rear of 4 runner

Anything else i should've done can anyone reckonmend any???

Thank you for reading this long/ shortened version.

Kind regards

Chris and Teena
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Reply By: Member - Toytruck (SA) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:02

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:02
Chris,
I'm just a little curious. Why did you go up Lavis Lane to get to Fingal???? Lavis runs onto Stockton Beach which is a good place to avoid during Christmas school hols.

I would have went straight to Fingal and avoided Stockton all together.

10 points for going out of your way and lending assistance though. It is experiences like these that will build your knowledge of what to do and what not to do.

Toytruck
AnswerID: 216403

Reply By: mike w (WA) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:05

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:05
Welcome aboard. Sounds like you had a good start to your ongoing adventure, and its good to see that you put some EO info into practice.

One suggestion, you mentioned you slipped the snatch over the tow ball. That is considered a bit of a no-no (slap on the wrist for you LOL) Tow balls arent really designed for that sort of thing, you will risk snapping the tow ball or the strap slipping off the top. It would be mutch better to attach to a recovery point (if only all vehicles had one!!) or to attach to the tow bar cross member (is there a technical term for it??)

Otherwise, keep up the good spirits and enjoy whateva it is you are doing.

Mike
AnswerID: 216405

Reply By: Member - Jezza (NSW) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:09

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:09
Hi Chris,

Well done for helping out, however the "hooked the snatch over towball" is extremely dangerous. Towballs are not rated for that sort of work, and easily become flying missiles with devastating consequences . Always hookup to a suitable/rated part of the vehicle.

Cheers,
Jezza.
AnswerID: 216407

Reply By: shade10 - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:13

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:13
well going to a sneeky sneeky to avoid the bulk of traffic to nelsons bay, hence thats why we took the lavis lane way because the traffic out that way is horrendous at times, and to play on the dunes.
AnswerID: 216408

Follow Up By: Member - Toytruck (SA) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:16

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:16
shade10,
I can understnad that. I was up there visiting some old freinds at Christmas and it was bloody bedlam. I loved living in the bay, at Fingal to be exact, but do not miss the holiday season traffic.

Toytruck
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Reply By: Wayne M(QLD) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:21

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 13:21
Chris
Sound like you had a big day .the thing that stick's out to me is where you say
hooked the snatch over tow ball after clearing a path for the wheels
mate that's a NO NO sheer that tow ball and watch out. you do say in your list of 1-4 buying shackles so sounds like you know
but over all you help out some people and thats a good thing

all the best
Wayne
AnswerID: 216410

Reply By: MP - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 14:04

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 14:04
Also curious as to whether any of the vehicles tried to drive out once the tyres were deflated and sand cleared from around tyres.

Cheers

MP
AnswerID: 216420

Reply By: 3.0turbob - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 14:14

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 14:14
What a laod of cr.p!
Tyres to 10 psi?..................roll em off the rim.
With the recoveries you describe you did, you should be keel hauled. You say you have learnned from this forum,............ you have learned nothing.
quote"Lessons learned that day,
1, buy two rated shackles,
2, bring shovel,
3, bring soap, extra towel and another shirt (whites not good doing snatch work in)
4, get solid mounting points on front and rear of 4 runner

Anything else i should've done can anyone reckonmend any??? "

Bring ya brain!!!!
Youre lucky you didn't kill yourself or anyone else!

Rob
AnswerID: 216422

Follow Up By: Member - Toytruck (SA) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 14:45

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 14:45
And what would you have done Rob...driven right bye????

At least the guy has admited very clearly that this is very new to him and at least he had the common courtesy to stop and lend a hand regardless of ti all being new.....give im a break.

Toytruck
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FollowupID: 476790

Follow Up By: Member - Dave .. B (SA) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 15:25

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 15:25
Rob give the guy a break , he says hes a newbie ,so still learning , did you do everything perfectly when you first started out 4wheel driving?? i doubt it....as for 10psi roll em off the rims , yeah sure there is a possibility , but i have had mine down as low as 8psi without rolling them off the rims , and im sure there's lots more on here who have had them down as low as ten as well ...........cheers .......Dave
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Follow Up By: Bilbo - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 15:39

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 15:39
Jeezuz! With a reaction like that, I hope there's never a time when I don't know something!

But that's never gonna happen eh!

;)

Bilbo
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FollowupID: 476830

Follow Up By: Member - Toytruck (SA) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 15:45

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 15:45
Bilbo,
anyone that has been around as long as you msut know everything....right:-)

Toytruck
0
FollowupID: 476837

Follow Up By: Bilbo - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 16:53

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 16:53
Toy,

Yeah - I never thought of that!

As the Optus ad sez," YEAH!! ;)

Bilbo
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FollowupID: 476859

Follow Up By: 3.0turbob - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 17:05

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 17:05
Toytruck & Dave,
No of course I wouldn't have driven right by.
All well and good to give a hand but attach the snatchstrap to the towball or the front crossmember? c'mon. Any video/DVD on basic 4WDing will tell you the correct thing to do. At least arm youself with a bit of knowledge befor you venture out! Why not just tie the snatchstrap around the bullbar ala Russell Coit? Sounds like his brother in law and sister could do with some lessons as well. I hope the people he "passed his knowledge on to" seek professional guidance.
Still very lucky that there were no injuries or damage..........

Rob
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FollowupID: 476865

Follow Up By: Member - Andy Q (VIC) - Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 00:49

Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 at 00:49
G'day Turbo, 'Tyres down to 10psi' ...very sensible in the sand on the norhtern beaches north of Newcastle.
Where do you get your information about them 'rolling of the rim' .....
'what a load of cr'p

Have I been doing the wrong thing letting my tyres down to 10 sometimes 8psi for the past 20 years.
Oh yeah! all the other critisisms...get a life or at least pretend!

andy
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FollowupID: 476979

Reply By: Member - John and Val W (ACT) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 14:47

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 14:47
Chris and Teena

Top marks for helping others, BUT .... everyone else has pointed out the business of never using the towball in a snatch. If you've got a removable towing hook (tow ball on square section tube fitting into square tube on towbar) a good attachment is to remove the towing hook and slip the loop on the strap in in place of it. Secure it there using the pin which usually secures the towing hook.

I see you've decided to get some rated shackles. Good, never use non rated ones ... BUT never attach the snatch strap to either vehicle using a shackle!!!!! and never ever ever join 2 straps with a shackle. Just as your towball can break and become a missile, so can a shackle. If you must use shackles to attach to a vehicle, use 2, one on each side of the vehicle and a short length of strong rope (maybe a tree protector) as a sling between them. Run this sling through the eye of your snatch strap. Now if there is a breakage the missile is aimed sideways instead of at the back of your head!!! This is serious stuff and there have been some very serious accidents with snatch straps. (Makes sense - a big elastic band stretched 20% and with 2 or 3 tonnes on each end. There's a lot of energy stored in that strap. Don't be in the way if something snaps!!!

Good on you

John
J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein

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AnswerID: 216432

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 16:37

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 16:37
Hi there John just a quick question, you say dont connect the snatch by shackles,I know not to join 2 straps together using them I normally use a rolled up newspaper, but how do you connect to vehicle. I have an arb rear step bar which has the hayman reese tongue which I normally pull out put the strap in and run the pin that holds the tongue in I use that as an anchor point as you have stated above. BUT on occasions I have two big eye bolts bolted to the rear step (from arb) (1 on either side) which on a couple of occasions connected the strap to that via a rated shackle which I got with the strap. I do use a dampner of such when snatching. Is this a big no no ??? If so how am I suppose to attach to my vehicle ??? is it via the tow pin only, arb have said I can use the two eye bolts for this. If this is not ideal than I will be using pin method only. Not being a smart ar@e but really want to know the correct way if I am doing it in a dangerous way last thing I want to do is kill some one which as we all know can and has happened using the incorrect procedure. Regards Steve M
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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val W (ACT) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 17:29

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 17:29
Hi Steve,

My description wasn't very good - sorry about that. Personally, I always use the pin in the Hayman Reese fitting. It's a good strong point, centrally mounted.

Two big high-tensile eye bolts attached to the longitudinal chassis members sounds good too, but I'd run some kind of sling (maybe a tree protector) between them to give a central point to attach the snatch strap. (i.e. I'd run the sling through the eye of the snatch strap.) Using rated shackles to attach the sling to the eye bolts is not such an issue here, because if a shackle or mounting breaks, the bits will probably stay attached to the vehicle or sling, and in any case, any loose missiles are not aimed directly along the snatch strap at the other vehicle. I actually have 2 hooks on the front chassis members as a front sling attachment, though I'd prefer your eye bolts there for a more reliable attachment.

On joining straps - I reckon the best way is to attach one end to a vehicle then pass the free end of that strap through one end of the second strap, then the other end of strap 2 through the eye of strap 1. (A picture really would save 1000 words!!!) That way you finish up with two eyes together in a sort of handclasp. It's important to leave a stick or rolled up newspaper between the coupled eyes so they can be seperated after the snatch. And I agree with using a damper to slow things down if there is a breakage somewhere.

That's my 2c worth, and probably not worth much more!!

John
J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
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Reply By: Mikee5 (QLD) - Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 17:47

Friday, Jan 19, 2007 at 17:47
Hi Chris and Tina,

Others have covered most points so I will skip them. One other thing to mention is that trying to see how far you can get in 2WD does cause track damage, causing ruts and corrugations. Better to engage 4WD before needed. Kinder on the vehicle and the environment.
BTW snatch straps have a limited life especially when used in an abrasive environment (sand or mud). Better to carry two, if using one to recover someone else who doesn't own a strap - sell them one of yours and use that.
Enjoy.
AnswerID: 216477

Reply By: shade10 - Sunday, Jan 21, 2007 at 00:02

Sunday, Jan 21, 2007 at 00:02
Well thank you everyone for all your input, suggestions and practical critacism, much apprieciated! 3.0turbo, Dude yes i do have a brain, and one thing i did tell the jokers i pulled out was to stick it in first or reverse so i didnt have that much of a dead pull!!!

I didnt put everything in the post that i did, otherwise the post would be half hour long to read. basically i gave as gentle as a pull as possible and what i had with the towball snapping in my mind at all times before, durning and afterwards, with limited funds, it makes it hard to be fully prepared and fully equiped.

10 psi works for me the best as i still have the original cheese cutters and this is after alot of exprimentation driving on stockton and blacksmiths beach. On blacksmiths beach the sand is so soft you look the other way for too long you know about it.

And like i said i learned alot from that day and as soon as i can get my hands on a welder, angle grinder and metal plus some time up my sleeves, i'll be a beefing the front end and making myself a RUGGED tow/ snatch points. i did think of making a tree protector like mount for ease of a snatch but didnt have anything i considered strong enough. And the last guy i pulled out i asked him for a shackle and he came to me holding one of those trialer ones, i said to him it has to be rated like around 3500 kgs or not at all.

Also it is hard to snatch someone when A: they dont have a bullbar, and B: dont know where they put there screw-in tow point common to all newer cars ( happened twice that day).

Also too it is a good reminder to advertise this site and promote good driving practices and pass on some skills. Whilst i'm still learning i will endeavour to do the best from what i have personally learned myself and reading this forum, i.e from exprienced 4wd guys as a tribute to all the people who have read this post and replied.

I could feel my 4bie starting to struggle thats when i changed into four wheel drive so as not to cause anymore damage or destroy my gearbox/ transfer case or diffs.

But a lesson learned and thank you kindly for the tip, and to everyone who replied to this post and look foprward to meeting you right way up on the beach or bush!
Can'yt wait to get into the mud???? Now that will be a hell of a lot of fun and a new learning exprience!!!!

I think??????
AnswerID: 216769

Follow Up By: 3.0turbob - Monday, Jan 22, 2007 at 09:35

Monday, Jan 22, 2007 at 09:35
Chris,
My apologies to you, I was way too harsh and shouldn't have attacked you they way I did. I'm big on safety but that doesn't excuse my reply. I'm glad you helped others in need. The more you do things, the more you learn. Enjoy your 4by and stay safe.

Rob
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Follow Up By: shade10 - Monday, Jan 22, 2007 at 13:28

Monday, Jan 22, 2007 at 13:28
Hi Rob, its cool we all have to learn somewhere, and yes i am very safety consience too! Lifes hard enough without doing permanent injury to yourself or someone else. When i can i'll get what i need and equipment i need without hurting myself and others, or damaging our beautiful enviroment!

So if your in the newcastle area drop in for a beer or a few!!!

Cheers

See ya up the beach

Chris
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