Problems with Nissan Patrol ST 3.0L TD

Thanks Wayne Luckily I kept my 16 year old RB30 Patrol which is still unstoppable! I am so disappointed that a $60K car should fail on its first off road outing (even the back lights fell out!) I hope Nissan can fix it as it is still under warranty. At the moment I am really regretting my purchase. Hopefully that will change as I plan a long trip into the desert in April. I have a terrible feeling that this car has been designed as an urban tractor too complicated and delicate to take more than 50KM away from a Nissan Dealer. Hopefully I am wrong. What I will say in its favour is that when it was behaving itself it was a delight to drive. It's my first automatic 4x4 and I couldn't fault it on soft sand.

they are good cars, i just think the new engine has teething problems, i have the TD-6 which is the big brother. I went for this option due only to its proven reliability....they are unstoppable (most of the time) and the heavier drivetrain....but once again good luck....nissan should sought it out for ya i reckon!

TD6 (Japanese old school) is no relation at all to the TD4 (Renaullt electronic controlled EFI)

As far as i'm aware the running gear/drivetrain is the same, only the 3.0l is available in auto

yep Redback, you're right about the drive train being the same....both as strong as an ox. It's these types of issues (what I generalise as "computer problems") that really worry me about these new fangled engines. I agree that they are great for power, fuel economy etc .....it's just that there are too many (one is "too many" as far as I'm concerned) breakdowns associated with MAF's, EGR's, VVTurbos, Intercooler hoses blowing off, ridiculous belt pulley tensioners etc etc.

The venerable 4.2 donk may have taken pride of place on Noah's boat, but it's as reliable as as old Akubra, even if some of 'em do run a bit warm from time to time.

I love my new 6.5 V8 diesel....it's from the same era as the 4.2; it's not very fuel efficient (but no worse than the 4.2TD), but it has no little black box or sensors in air intake etc that are gunna shut-up shop on me in the back of beyond for no apparent logical reason....leaving me looking for a computer expert.

I know I have detractors on this forum for speaking in these tones, but I just call 'em as I see 'em. The perfect donk has yet to be invented........reliability is THE most important attribute as far as I concerned.

I hope they can get to the bottom of your problem mate.......my suggestion FWIW would be to get it fixed and get rid of it.

Good luck

Cheers

Very informed hi-tech diagnosis!

Thanks Dave - No didn't blow smoke - just went everywhere in 3rd. If you turned the engine off and on again it would be fine for a few minutes and perform really well but then the malfunction light would come on again (even if the vehicle was stationery) and it would have a problem. I didn't post the entire story here as its a bit long but given the interest here it is - Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

1. Drove up to Shark Bay on Saturday 13th Jan All OK to Overlander Road House (Approx. 700 KM) towing camper trailer. Topped up half a tank with diesel at Overlander All OK
2. Drove up tarmac to Useless loop turn off All OK
3. Drove on gravel road to Useless Loop Approx. 100 KM Some corrugations All OK
4. Drove up steep soft sand (4WD 2H D – All tyres at 16PSI including camper trailer) All OK
5. Hard corrugations for a while (about 2-3KM) All OK apart from drivers side passenger door which vibrated markedly at the top. Needs adjusting to get a proper seal.
6. Next set of sand dunes malfunction indicator Light came on steady – (not blinking) Stopped vehicle immediately.
7. Consulted owners manual. Checked for water in fuel filter – drained approx. a cup full of diesel out of the fuel filter – no sign of water. Light did not come on after engine was started.
8. Drove on for two minutes over soft sand – Light came on steady. Checked for water in fuel filter – drained approx. a cup full of diesel out of the fuel filter – Still no sign of water. Light did not come on after engine was re-started.
9. Drove on for a further two minutes, again over soft sand – Light came on steady. Checked again for water in fuel filter – drained approx. a cup full of diesel out of the fuel filter – still no sign of water. Light did not come on after engine was started.
10. Drove on for two minutes over soft sand – Light came on. Stopped car. Turned off engine. Consulted owners manual and determined that this may be an engine control malfunction.
11. Observed Car’s fuel economy was very poor 25 litres per 100km!!!. The vehicle did not shift down properly and top speed was 58KMH Drove on to camp site at steep point (Approx. 20KM)
12. Observed right rear light cluster hanging from vehicle – self-tapping screws lost. Took one screw from LH light cluster and gaffer taped both lights in place.
13. Left the vehicle switched off overnight and started the engine in the morning. Did not engage gears or move the vehicle but the malfunction indicator light came on after approximately 2 minutes. Turned off vehicle and disconnected battery overnight.
14. Reconnected battery and drove vehicle for approximately 10 minutes before the malfunction indicator light came on. Even though the light came on the vehicle still changed down OK and all gears seemed OK
15. Found a high Hill and called Nissan and spoke to mechanic.
16. Determined that the problem may be a sensor problem and was advised that the vehicle was OK to drive although may experience some issues. I was advised to check the sensors wiring hadn’t come loose especially in the air intake area. Checked – All OK but also checked the air filter which was very dirty. I turned the air filter around so that the side facing the air intake was the clean side.
17. Drove back to camp – Vehicle performed OK with appropriate gear changes but light came on after a couple of minutes.
18. On the 20th January we set off from the point hoping to get to Geraldton to a Nissan dealer before lunchtime. Unfortunately after just a couple of minutes the light came on and we lost most of the gears, struggling to get over 58KM an hour on the gravel road from Useless Loop. Stopped several times and turned the engine off each time.
19. Eventually when we turned on the engine again and revved the engine hard (about 50KM from the Overlander Road House – still on the gravel road) the light didn’t come on again and stayed off. There was no chance of making it to Geraldton by now but we had all our gears back and were able to cruise at highway speeds. Got back to Greenmount at 11pm. Fuel economy was still very poor.
Light did come on once or twice onthe way back down the Great Northern Highway but apart from really bad fuel economy the vehicle seemed OK

Thanks JD I think that may be part of it. I just called the guys at Nissan and they have just said that a code on the 'puter indicates a fuel pump problem or maybe dirty fuel but given its appalling performance its hard to believe that that's all it is!
Its still under new car warranty - of course dirty fuel isn't covered.....

A fuel pump choked with cr@p will definately give you very poor performance. Definately shouldn't be covered by warranty.

Easy to believe - if the engine can't get any fuel, how can it make any power?

I had the same problem on cape york trip in my petrol Jack - blocked gauze filter on the in-tank fuel pump, lots of crap in the tank. Result - clogged external fuel filter and heavily restricted delivery of fuel to the fuel rail, and hence no power and misfiring. When the fuel got hot in the tank from the return line, the filter clogged even worse to the extent that the engine would completely cut out. Only got the occasional check engine light, the code was for lean cylinder. Code reset turned the pesky light off.

Thanks Cruiser
I am begining to understand that the 'puter has this fail safe function where they allow you to limp home.

Thanks Dave - Apparently there is a 'very long' schedule of procedures that they have to follow now to resolve the code which they are doing. I have told them to keep the vehicle as long as they like to fix it. They haven't mentioned multiple codes but I will talk to them about overboost and MAF although I am not sure what MAF stands for!

MAF= mass airflow = air mass meter = air flow meter etc. A small in the induction system that measures the mass of air entering.

sorry can't edit properly. I meant a small sensor in the induction system etc

Andrew that sounds great. Is yours a 3.0 litre ST turbo diesel as well?

yep.. Series III

Thanks Mike

Mike Unfortunately this "if the problem dosen't show on the computer then there isn't a problem"- isn't true. Mine had a faulty MAF sensor that resulted no power and very high boost (because the VNC is disabled at low airflow) that did not show a code at all.

Sorry Dave, VNC?

Variable Nozzle Control= boost adjustment for turbo. Controlled by the ECU with pulse width modulation via a vacuum operated device. Essentially no airflow tells the computer to abandon boost control which results in maximum possible boost.

Ah OK things are starting to make sense now ... I predict a new sensor and fuel filter coming on! Thanks for your advice Dave you are clearly very well informed!

Don't forget the earth points too as mentioned above. Always a good starting point with these vehicles.

David
Bit of tongue in cheek. ("There's nothing showing up on the computer so we can't fix it") Unfortunately I've a bad opinion of Nissan dealers based on own experiences.

Thanks Col
It had its 10,000Km serviced by Northside Nissan before we went but the schedule doesn't require them to change the air filter ...

Nail hit on the head there, well done. I couldn't have said better myself.......

I am not sure anyone was saying it was Nissan's fault..were they? Or did I miss something.

The computer code system and subsequent fault finding procedure with these cars is more complex and less reliable than it need be, but that is no big deal. Plenty of modern cars like that. In the end it will be a faulty sensor or dirt/contaminated fuel or a bad earth as most have suggested.

In reply to the original poster, in summary

1. The car has gone into limp home mode which along with other things locks the transmission in one gear (second I think).

2. The code thrown up may be correct but there are plenty of instances where the fault causes incorrect codes due to the fault's influence on other systems.

3. Sometimes there are multiple codes- such as when there is a bad earth.

4. Very often the code recorded is the water in fuel code. This could be due to water in the fuel, a bad sensor in the filter or a fault with the fuel pump.

5. There is a sensor in a silly location in the fuel pump (in my opinion) that gets contaminated and causes problems occasionally with some cars.

6. Very often a MAF failure results in sluggish performance no boost control overboost. In my case no codes were thrown up and the engine light did not come on. Sometimes it results in overfueling and smokey exhaust.

In the end Nissan will find the fault and all will be well.

PS Love my Nissan

David,

Quote from a statement by the poster nigeldad, "I am so disappointed that a $60K car should fail on its first off road outing (even the back lights fell out!) I hope Nissan can fix it as it is still under warranty. At the moment I am really regretting my purchase."

This is what I was referring to. Has I said if the vehicle got bad fuel then it isn't the vehicle or Nissan's fault........

Fairy Nuff :-)

Still I recon the rear lights in the plastic are useless too. A real dumb idea along with stiff mudflaps- and the Patrols aren't the worst. Do these designers ever go off-road???

Thanks Chris this is the first Diesel I have owned so am not sure about the difference between diesel and biodiesel although l guess that one is mineral and one vegie? I just filled up at the bowser at the garage with diesel and don't remember seeing anything about biodiesel. I've used BP and Shell and whatever teh Overlander sells. I hav heard however that once you use a certain oil for your engine box and diffs that you should stick with it rather than change brands so maybe the same goes for diesel as well.

The cruiser engine is way over engineered and will last at least one revolution of a six figure odometer if maintained correctly.

FWIW Since I do a bit of remote travel amongst other spares I carry two extra fuel filters and also a spare MAF and the tools to change it. I also have a boost gauge fitted to check all well and because I have been known tow a fairly heavy boat about at 90KPH also have an EGT gauge and have been known to back off on occasion.

OT

Almost had to send a Rodeo home from one of our trips prior to enetering the Simpson. We eventually isolated it to a faulty EGR valve- another high tech add on. :-) We disabled the EGR and it was then able to continue...they're pretty much all the same these days.

Same spot? On the way to Steep? That is wierd but reassuring in a wierd sort of way too!

Well Nissan have now had it for two days - and claim to be working on it so we will see. I am certainly getting a lot of valuable feedback from this site which is great. I will give the mechanics at my local Nissan dealers a print out.
Thanks Everyone

Thanks Ren I plan to have a snorkel fitted before my desert trip in April so I'll make sure I look at the hoses first.

Thanks Jeff. As I said, when it behaved it was great but I can't take it bush until I have confidence in it and that will only be restored by flogging it off road when I get it back. If I get more problems it'll have to go but Boy! I can't afford to make that kind of mistake more than once in a lifetime!

the only way a bloke in our club got confidence in his was after turbo and engine and gearbox replacement, he drove next door to pick up his new car.. the nissan dudes were watching him drive out, and then drive in next door!!!!!

In all fairness, even though there are a lot of reports of the earlier motors blowing motors at 100k and the occasional turbo failure at similar milage the one we had was a PITA losing power all the time, but it never actually stopped. It was just slow until you turned it off and started it again. Then if you floored it at the lights the engine light would come back on and you'd go slow again as the ECU went into saftey mode.

So probably reliability is not a massive issue out bush at less than 100,000kms, but it'll just be a PITA unless Nissan actually sort it out (don't hold your breath).

Thanks Hammy - Which Nissan garage did the snorkel? Its just that I want to have one fitted.

Parrama**a Nissan in NSW. My honest opinion is that unless you can fully trust the business doing the work go over it your self with a fine tooth comb after any work is done

Thanks Hammy - No chance of me going to NSW to get a snorkel fitted! But I agree check all work even if it is just a cursory glance under the bonnet it can save an awful lot of grief!

For the last 3 days I have been driing my old Patrol around - She is just great ... No pretence, no frills and lace (or leather) I am really wondering if I should sell her now.

Thanks Martyn - Its nearly lunchtime on day 3 and still no news from Nissan. I don't know whether this is good or bad!

End of day three and Nissan have informed me that it all pointed to dirty fuel - If that's so then all I can say is Overlander please change your supplier!

They have replaced the fuel filter (and air filter at my request) taken it for an extensive off road test and brought it back to the shop and put it on the hoist to check it all over again. It looks as though Midland Nissan are doing a thorough job and I'll be picking it up tomorrow after another off road test in the morning. I might keep this post going a little longer just to let you all know how it goes. It has attracted over 700 hits so far which seems to be on the high side of average!

700 hits is normal for an emotive 3.0l Patrol post. Brings out the best in all the 3.0l detrators. You will have noticed that it's only the guys who don't own one offering all these greats words of wisdom like fix it and sell it and rubbish like the 4.2 has a stronger drive train....need I go on?

Leroy

Thanks Leroy I didn't think my post was emotive - just factual in terms of the sequence of events and my request for help! I think my expressed disappointment was justified. Of course in an open forum you have a wide spectrum of opinions, experience and various levels of competency from highly proficient to comments based on heresay and prejudice. Overall I am delighted with everyone's response and have found it really useful.

I spoke to the mechanic looking after my car this afternoon and passed on some of the comments from this forum, especially the advice on the MAF sensor. He told me that the previous series of Patrol had a lot of problems with the MAF sensor and as a consequence this series had a new sensor which didn't seem to have the same problems. He said he'd check it out none the less. Sounds impressive.

Thanks Hammie
I'll do that!

Dunno if this is any help mate but my 2005 ZD30 performed great at Steep Point in October pulling a camper trailer but one problem that has emerged since returning to Perth is that the oil light was coming on. Stop, check oil level, all OK & light stays off until some days later it comes on again. Seems when you turn the ignition off all fault code indications are re-set until the fault or indication of afault occurs again. Dealer informed me this is a known problem and a modified oil pressure sender switch is available from Nissan which has since been fitted and no more problems. It might be worth checking which sender yours has before you disappear in to the bush again because there is not much that could put the fear of death in to you than the oil light coming on beyond the black (sorry) stump.