Roll cages wouldn't be a bad idea for 4wds.

I dunno if a rollcage that is as long as a troopy would be that strong, just because of design. Could be wrong... i dunno... I agree with ya though rollcages would save lives.

4wd s are prone to rollover cos of the height. Something to think about when you lift the body or pack a roof rack with heavy stuff. I guess we have to be extra careful about how fast we are travelling and over what ground. More than the average driver.

Owen

Its a big issue if you get into it Axle, particularly in 4wds.

I worry when I see a 4wd with a cargo barrier and packed to roofline, as this increases the roll over risk significantly.

Don't know that all should have cages , but there are certainly some 4wds I would not buy because they roll to easily.

Primary safety is way to go (prevention ) and I am glad that the Patrols I choose to drive have highest tilt table test figure (48 degrees).

Also why I shy away from raising car much as I rather some extra scraps underneath than on the roof

Robin Miller

I think that rollcages are left out of most vehicles because we have to keep the population increase under control to a certain extent.

Those unlucky enough, or those doing stupid things, have to pay the ultimate price.

If we were to save everyone in the world from harm then very soon there will be standing room only.

It may not take much to roll a 4wd. A blown tyre, a sudden change of course to miss another vehicle doing the wrong thing or an animal. Many of these rollovers occur at speed, but you don't have to be going fast for it to happen.
The roof isn't a strong part of the vehicle in a rollover. Cargo barriers have helped in some situations but I wouldn't rely on them.
So what to do ?
Do I have an expensive roll bar installed that will probably not help the c of g anyway ? Will it be worthwhile in the event of a rollover ? Any reliable stats availiable ?
Hmm...another thing to ponder..

A cargo barrier works well as a rollcage .

I have thought about making my own cargo barrier but using around 40mm tube instead of the somewhat smaller stuff that the bought ones have. Should give more strength without being too rigid.

Axle
Good point you raise there, I have been saying the very same thing to people and have written to Politicians about this idea, [ wasted my time ] , What I see is the V8 Supercars in terrific situations , ie Craig Lowndes big roll a couple of years back, the feral tyre into his windscreen , and these guys walk away from it , now I'm not saying the family sedan has to have bars like the V8 Supercars, but an ideal bar for say 140klm accidents , ie trees, poles embankments , and roll overs ,
V8 Supercars don't have head on's ???? , They could be incorporated within the frames and linings and be basicly unseen .

Doug

Another thing I thought of is that it would be more than likely these 4WD's were engineered without the added mass introduced from all the extras we fit. Even a very strong roll bar would buckle considerably with around 3-3.5t of momentum behind it.

Interesting thought...we fit bull bars when we already have some protection up front but some people totally get worked up when it is suggested that some overhead protection might be a good idea !

Now I don't want to start a toyo v patrol war, and I am a toyo owner, but the number of troopies that seem to squash flat when they roll seems excessive. I suspect that Troopies need cages or b good cargo barriers at the very least. Their height/narrow wheelbase probably makes them more roll over prone to begin with, but they seem to squash more readily than other 4WDs once they tip. Any other views on this?

Our favourite fourbys are pretty much all chassis plus body bolted on.

Monocoque designs use the entire body as a roll cage, and obviously some are better than others at this.

My money would be on the monocoque Pajero to be "better" in a rollover than my Jackaroo, and I would rather be in the Jack than in a Troopy in this event.

The problem for engineers in designing vehicles is that what is best for rigorous outback reliability and strength will be a nightmare if things go wrong.

A vehicle that is supreme when things go wrong, eg a Merc A class, will be useless in the outback.

I think putting roll cages in fourbys is just going to consume load carrying capacity for nothing. It would weigh as much as 40 litres of water. If you rolled outback and survived the rollover, the water would keep you alive till help arrived. If you broke down with a nice roll cage but no water cause you could no longer carry it, you might die of thirst.

Drive in such a way that you won't roll is the answer. There are probably more troopy rollovers than any other model (we saw 3 on our CY trip and one Pajero, pre monocoque)

When you have a two tonne vehicle roll over it doesn't take long to bring the roof down to the seats.
Mark

Not allowed to drive on many minesites without them (not for underground either) and obviously it's a requirement for virtually any type of organised motorsport. That's enough for me. You clearly would be better off with one than without - bit hard to argue otherwise.

On a similar note, after writing off my old 100 series you wont get a bigger fan of cargo barriers than me. I know for a fact that my Milford saved my life. Amazing what a box of Sidchromes will do when slowed from 60kmh to zero in a few feet.

I bought one for my 100 series and will be fitting it up soon. You can pick them up cheap out of the Quokka from time to time.

After reading some of the responses to this thread, I got thinking that you COULD almost have it both ways.

You could fit a frontal cage for the driver and passenger only, and still keep the cargo area free. This will still protect the second row paasengers fairly well as the roof would not completely crush.
Further, you could incorporate the cargo barrier as an extension of the main cage by way of two lateral bars connecting both together.

Weight would be less of a factor, cargo capacity is virtually unchanged, and you still get the benefits of improved safety.

If the vehicle were to roll over heavily, the cargo barrier might dislodge but probably toward the rear away from the occupants.

There is no getting away from the vertical post and potential for head banging though. (unless they are incorporated into the body to start with).

Also for those carrying more passengers...... don't take undue risks. Of course you have no control of other drivers.

Cheers
Cam

So...

whos going to lead this push to get the mandatory roll cages installed in all 4wd vehicles??

An email to scrubby perhaps? ;)

Land Rover Defenders (I own one) have a windscreen frame made of weak brittle alloy which snaps very easily thereby absorbing almost no energy. The frame supports the entire front roof space. In the USA Defenders had to have a full external roll cage fitted before they could be sold in that market.

It is only a matter of time before Government introduces some form of roof crush protection as standard. Currently subarus have a great system with their B-pillars reinforced with exotic metals and multi-layered steel. An interesting read, from an (US) emergency service rescue perspective can be found here ==> www.drivesubaru.com/Sum06_WhatsInside.htm

Why don't manufacturers just incorporate high strength , high tensile plates into the A and B pillars for rigidity? Price maybe?

Andrew