No wonder three way fridges dont work
Submitted: Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 16:54
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skulldug
At the
Adelaide Caravan and Camping Show yesterday, I asked the guy at the Dometic stand why my 3 way fridge doesn't work. He sold me the usual line about bad installation, so bought a fan kit off him.
Well, no wonder the things don't work! This is a really poorly designed fridge for Australian conditions and very badly installed by the popular caravan manufacturers. Read on if you want to be bored by what I think is the solution.
When I removed the fridge to fit the fan, I could see it all relies on an absorption unit and condenser at the back. It is inside the caravan so when it gets hot, the heat generated circulates inside around the fridge. I don't think its good enough to fit a computer fan onto the vent. The fan needs to be fitted on the back of the fridge between the absorption unit and condenser blowing air upwards. Next, bend some aluminium to direct the hot air out of the vent.
With this mod, my fridge got down to -C6 over night and stayed there all day! It normally takes two days to cool the thing down to +C4.
Next van I buy will have a couple of Engels (OK - or Waecos) mounted side by side.
Cheers
Doug
Reply By: slave - Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 17:14
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 17:14
A Caravan Park owner we knew used to take the caravan fridges out of the vans when they started to get sluggish and roll them around on the grass, end to end and side to side. His theory was that they were designed to be bounced around by sitting in the park in onsite vans the gas settled in one spot and the rolling got the gas moving again.
Worked every time.
Mrs S
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 17:33
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 17:33
craaaap
you do that when the system crystalises or sedimet creates a blockage.....in general one does not need to roll them around...they dont get sluggish...one day they work the next they dont!
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Follow Up By: skulldug - Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 17:43
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 17:43
you talking about the fridge or SWMBO?
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Follow Up By: slave - Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 19:53
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 19:53
Believe what you want Member No 1.
We saw it work.
It may not apply to modern ones but it did to 70's and 80's era fridges.
Mrs S
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog - Vic - Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 21:13
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 21:13
It's true no 1, these fridges need to be kicked around every so often, it's been proven so many times.
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 07:47
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 07:47
yes..they can be turned upside down When They Stop Working....they are not designed to be kicked around...and Nor Do They Need it on a regular basis
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Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 08:07
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 08:07
And MN1 is a fridgy so he may know something about it!
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog - Vic - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 08:15
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 08:15
I kick ALL my fridges morning and night and they've never let me down
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 08:17
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 08:17
fridge basher
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Reply By: Mike Harding - Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 17:21
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 17:21
Skulldug - we all know 3 way fridges have limitations (but they have advantages too) you just need to understand the limitations and operate within those parameters.
Mike Harding
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Reply By: Motherhen - Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 17:42
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 17:42
Hi Skulldug
When we had a camper with a gas only fridge we never lit it (big bang theory paranoia). Just used it like an esky - open in the cool of night and closed during day. They work on the same principal as the old kerosene fridges we had when i was a nipper, which were very efficient, even if they did catch the floor on fire occasionally.
We bought an old small wind up van with a three way which the guy assured us was OK even if slow to cool on electricity but he never tried it on gas. It didn't work at all (assessed by fridge repair man). We got a beaut Engel front opening 12/240 volt fridge to fit into the same spot; has small internal freezer compartment. Works really
well. Around same size as the 130 litre Vitrifrigo in our present caravan.
For around $2g i recall, we got the Engel, a solar panel, deep cycle battery, power level monitor, and 12 volt lights. That was 4 or 5 years ago.
We don't have that caravan now, but my daughter and her family are using it.
If you can afford to change over, go for it.
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Reply By: WWAB - Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 18:18
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 18:18
Problem with 3 ways is uneven temp, my old 3 way would freeze the salads, and when traveling on 12v didnt run to
well.then on hot days 36+ temp. it was crap.
Now have a engel SRE-90 cost $1000. & runs A1, with two AGM batteries in the van will run for 4-6 days - charge up while touring or if stopping at caravan park for supplies or run geni for a few hours with large battery charger.running geni works out cheaper than gas for the old 3-way. Do a lot of
bush camping on uneven ground not to fussy about being dead level now.
WWAB
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Reply By: Ozrover - Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 19:19
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 19:19
Skulldug.
Yep we pulled the Dometic out of the camper & sold it, bought a Vitrifrigo front opening fridge (Danfoss 35 compressor) & couldn't be happier!!
Only problem was the Vitrifrigo is about 30mm too tall, now have a raised cutting board above the fridge!! 8 )>
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Reply By: wazzaaaa - Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 20:04
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 20:04
Love to read these sort of posts it makes me feel as though I didn't waste my 8 years of hell with them then finally giving in and buying what works, a 12v compressor fridge. Some people sware by 3 way fridges but I need what ever they are smoking as I just don't agree.
Wazzaaaaa
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 20:11
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 20:11
Wazzaaaaa - we all know 3 way fridges have limitations (but they have advantages too) you just need to understand the limitations and operate within those parameters.
Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: wazzaaaa - Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 20:38
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 20:38
See below Mike
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Follow Up By: pixiemops - Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 22:46
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 22:46
Wazaaaaaaaa you won't get anything to smoke off me. The rc1180 is a fantastic 3 way fridge that will freeze to -15 degrees celsius even on a 40 degree day. I do believe the older style 3 ways cannot be compared with the newer ones.
And you know what you don't even need a generator solar panels, 2 or 3 deep cycle batteries to run it. I will never get one of those engels or waecos don't see the need for a sub standard camping fridge (no offence intended).
As Mike stated run them as they were intended to be and it will work for you . Like anything follow the damn instructions thats what they are there for. Installation of a small computer fan under the condensor certainly does help conduct the heat away
quicker allowing the ammonia to condense back into a liquid and then extract more heat out of the fridge when it evaporates again.
Nothing beats the rc1180 when camped for a long period in the bush .
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Follow Up By: wazzaaaa - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 07:14
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 07:14
As long as you don't open them?....... Hey pixiemops I notice you have been defending these fridges for several years by all your past posts on them, you must be a real believer of them, go with what you believe in if they work for you that's great.
Wazzaaaaaa
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Follow Up By: pixiemops - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 09:25
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 09:25
Hey Wazaaaa I have no reason to defend them or believe in them for no reason because they work fantastically. Seem as though you need to justify the need to go camping with generators dual battery setup solar panels etc. If thats your camping style go for it and buy an Engel .
I like things that are simple and work and the rc1180 is that . That is the essence of camping for me . I would,t spend 1150 on a fridge either if it didnt work but it does . If you want to spend another 2-3 thou to make an Engel your camping choice then go for it .
Go buy a new chescold and I mean a new one not one that is 20years old.
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Follow Up By: pixiemops - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 09:36
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 09:36
Wazaaaaaaa to answer your question re my posts . I enjoy camping and work in a NATA accredited laboratory as a microbiologist. Therefore I enjoy researching and finding out the facts on things and conducting tests as I have done on these fridges in as unbiased way as I can. The thermometers I have used have also been calibrated against a $150 NATA thermometer to ensure it is reading as accurately as it can .
I don't like to see inaccurate misleading information being posted about anything including fridges.
cheers.
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Follow Up By: WWAB - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 10:09
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 10:09
Sorry fellows- rc1180 blue chest is a great freeze/fridge still use it on long fishing trips as a freeze.My first reply was answering regarding fridges in caravans meaning upright series.the only 3 way upright I would buy is electrolux 150 lt that is rated tropical, to large for my current off road van.12v is preferred,and seeing that most vans even campervan spend most of their time in caravan park 12/240v seems best choice.
WWAB
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Follow Up By: pixiemops - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 10:15
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 10:15
Thanks wwab
My experience is with the rc1180 blue chest type. I have no experience with the ones in caravans at all .
cheers
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Follow Up By: Ron173 - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 10:47
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 10:47
Pixiemops,
you say
"I like things that are simple and work and the rc1180 is that . That is the essence of camping for me . I would,t spend 1150 on a fridge either if it didnt work but it does . If you want to spend another 2-3 thou to make an Engel your camping choice then go for it ."
Had to have a chuckle at that one LOL, you obviously like your 1180, which is good.
the 2-3 K for an Engel got me thinking...... as I have an Engel, for a minute I thought your right I did spend that, but then noticed you said an EXTRA 2-3k.
The cost of an Engel seems to be almost bang on that of an rc1180, ($1150) then I spent $450 on panel and regulator.
So its true there is an extra cost factor in there, but not quite as much as you said.
I know they dont use much gas, and $450 buys you a lot of gas, but my solar has no running costs, and is available everywhere, and my ute doesnt need to be level.
Just my 10c
each to his own
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Follow Up By: wazzaaaa - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 11:38
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 11:38
Hi pixiemops, So if I say my two caravan 3 way fridges were no good at all, and that was my experence after putting a paino hinge on the top of the exterior vent panel so when camping I could open it to let more air in to the two 12v fans I had running trying to cool the
dam thing, as
well as getting the van exactly level took the door off the freezer trying to get the fridge to a respectable temp. I all ready had a generator to charge my batterys which ran the inverter for 240v power in the van, so for only the out lay of the 12v fridges I am now a happy chappy and love 12v fridges mainly because of how bad 3 way fridges worked for me as
well as my fellow campers who have 12v fridges now as
well. As your experence is limited to the rc1180 blue chest type fridge please respect my right to share my experence with my two caravan fridges as
well as my sadek 3 way fridge which again was terrible.
Wazzaaaaa
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Follow Up By: wazzaaaa - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 11:44
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 11:44
Oh and by the way this thread is about caravan 3 way fridges and not the rc1180 blue chest type fridge
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Follow Up By: Ron173 - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 13:14
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 13:14
When ute camping etc I swear by my Engel / panel, but In keeping with the 3 way topic....
My van is an older van, and has a dometic fridge in it, which I do try to keep serviced, ie flue n burner cleaned periodically.
Well this old thing works a treat I have to say.
Usually on gas, and van is level, and even with my
young uns constantly opening it for drinks it copes fine.
I must use my thermocouple and measure inside temp on it, but it certainly seems like a LOT less than 15degc when I get cold drinks out of it on a 40deg day,
(which is all it should be working on the 25 below ambient theory.)
Guess I'm fortunate to have one that works
well.
Ron
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Follow Up By: pixiemops - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:21
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:21
Howdy Ron
That temp was actually minus 15 degrees at 40 degree ambient in the freezer. That is 55 degree below ambient . See post 41925 . The new chescolds specifically the rc1180 is capable of that and many other posters have posted similar performance too.
One of these days im going to conduct a
test and put the engel V,s the rc1180 and then see exactly what results we get in 40 degree heat. I cannot find any info or
test conducted by anyone and even an email to the manager of Dometic by me was unsuccessful. The response something like "We are of course delighted you are happy with your Chescold however the results you requested are unavailable".
Anyone with an Engel like to come over have a beer and be part of an experiment ????????????????????????????. PS you have to live in
PERTH
cheers
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Follow Up By: wazzaaaa - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 20:38
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 20:38
You almost had me, I have a 12v van fridge (in the garage gathering dust)an engel and two waecos to compare but the
perth bit blew it too far from QLD sorry.
Wazzaaaaaaa
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Reply By: wazzaaaa - Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 20:21
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 20:21
I was expecting your reply Mike, I know you are happy with yours and I hope it keeps working for you mate. it just didn't for me but I respect your opinion.
Wazzaaaaa
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Follow Up By: pixiemops - Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 23:05
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 23:05
A quote for the rc1180 manual .
"During the refrigeration process ,the appliance gives off heat from the condenser (under the upper part of the rear cover ) into the surrounding air. The more ventilated the condenser is ,the more effective refrigeration will be."
Don't know how much clearer that can be . If you don't allow enough air circulation around the back of the fridge the bloody thing aint going to work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. If the dometic salesman mentioned the insulation then don't know why you bought the fan kit off him as has nothing to do with insulation. The rc1180 has fantastic insulation in it which certainly does help it perform so
well. The cheaper fridge models do not .
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Follow Up By: skulldug - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 08:01
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 08:01
PM,
I have no doubt these fridges could be made to perform properly. Add more insulation, heavier wires, more ventilation, fan, and put inside an Engel (or Waeco).
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Reply By: rustytruck - Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 22:26
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 22:26
Another thing to
check is the wiring for adequate size. My fridge was very poor on 12VDC as
well and checking the voltage at the fridge showed 9.2VDC - that was voltage drop from 12.8VDC at the front of the van to the fridge. Worked much better with the appropriate cable fitted, despite the van dealer telling me it would make no difference. The voltage with the new cable was 12.2VDC. Also filling the empty space around the fridge with insulation made more improvements - when using gas - as
battery power was not used to run the little bitty fan. The 240VAC side of things was always OK.
A bit of work for a huge difference.
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Follow Up By: pixiemops - Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 23:29
Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 at 23:29
Very true again from the manual rc1180.
"Two wires must be run direct to the battery one to each terminal. These wires must be no less than 6mm2 auto cable and kept to a practical minimum length . "
A note at the end it is NOT recommended to run this 12v appliance from a 12v cigarette lighter outlet.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 10:27
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 10:27
Yeh its not recommended to run from a STANDARD cig lighter socket, but as its very hard to run a lead from the fridge to the battery and keep the voltage drop down, its easy to use a merrit socket ( jaycar one is probably the best ) with 6 mm2 (wire size,not overall size ) run directly to the battery ( don't forget, two wires, neg and pos )
Voltage drop is approx 0.1V , and with a rating of 15A, the merrit socket will handle any normal fridge. ps; don't forget to add a 15A fuse on the pos at the battery end.
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Reply By: Member - Brian H (QLD) - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 09:59
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 09:59
I have a Chestcold Mark 2 (damn old, was mums). I will say for me I need to get it cold a day out from my trip more if i can that way when its on 12 volt it will be fine at my night stop to which I hook up the gas and run it on gas for the night.
For me it works bit of mucking around and I would like an Explore or tailblazer but at the moment $2000 is not a option I can go down.
As I don't open it during my drive my food is very cold as is the beer and thats all i can ask :) ............... just got to watch it on gas overnight and turn it down otherwise it will all be frozen in the morning.
The other issue I do have with it, it draws heaps from the battery 12 amp and hour I beleive, it is hooked to a 130 amp deep cycle.
If set up for any period it stays on gas. I am happy enough (cost me nothing).
I will have it for the meet up in SA so it better keep going lol.
Brian
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Reply By: disco1942 - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:08
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:08
Doug – you said “It is inside the caravan so when it gets hot, the heat generated circulates inside around the fridge.”
This seems to me like you have an installation problem. This is common problem as caravan builders do not in the main use their own products. Remove your fridge again and replace it together with fibreglass bats at the sides and top of the fridge so that the hot air does not circulate around the sides and top of the fridge.
“Next, bend some aluminium to direct the hot air out of the vent.” There should have been a heat deflector from the fridge case at the top of the heat exchanger that was connected to the top of the vent in the side of the van. Whilst at the show did you look to see how many manufacturers have not fitted this. If you have fitted this when you installed the fan then this will have accounted for a fair bit of your increased efficiency.
The third thing to look at is the spacing of the fins from the wall. If there id a large gap then the air will flow around the fins instead of through them. Pack
the gap so there is only 5mm clearance behind the fins for the whole of their dimensions.
I once had a van that had that heat shield but the top vent was mounted so low that the shield was bent down to meet it. I had another vent installed above the original top one and the heat deflector was replaced with one that reached the top of that vent. I did not have to fit a fan – worked OK without it. There was never a problem with the fridge after that – it just needed a few bits to fix the van constructors stuff up..
It is surprising how many spit the dummy and do not try the installation improvement first. With a little bit of effort they could have saved themselves $2-3K for a new fridge and solar installation.
PeterD
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Reply By: 75Troopy - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 08:15
Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 08:15
I'll jump on the 1180 lovers band wagon :-)
No trouble at all opening and closing all day even in 40c heat... In fact I was having to throw in warm beer to stop it freezing the salad all the time.
Huge thanks to pixie for the information he provided earlier that gave me the confidence to buy the thing after so many 3 way horror stories.
Really sad that Dometic won't provide that data.... oh
well...
Matt
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Follow Up By: skulldug - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 18:15
Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 18:15
Hi Matt,
I gather the 1180 is a chest type fridge. I think the horror stories are about the upright ones fitted in most caravans.
My only intention was to share the information I gathered after a bit of research.
Amazing how passionate people can get about their fridges.
Cheers
Doug
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Follow Up By: 75Troopy - Thursday, Mar 01, 2007 at 08:08
Thursday, Mar 01, 2007 at 08:08
Sure is amazing...
The RC1180 is the blue chest type with a removable divider so you can run a fridge and freezer at the same time.
I'm going to break all the rules by owning a compressor unit as
well... Stationary for a week at a time I think the RC1180 is brilliant, but if we do a trip i'm planning then we will only be camping over night and travelling for a week or so.. for that I'll want a compressor unit to leave in the truck.
As for leveling, i simply siliconed a bulls eye level on top and threw in heaps of small bits of fibro. Takes me 5 mins max to level on pretty much any kind of ground.
Matt
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