Nt Limit Free

Submitted: Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 01:23
ThreadID: 42697 Views:2554 Replies:17 FollowUps:45
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Clair Martin has introduced a NEW TAX & not addressed the issues that are the real concern & is making us feel guilty enough to accept a NEW TAX!

The truth is that ALL ROADS WERE UNLIMITED UNLESS OTHERWISE SIGNED, that includes even the most dangerous dirt tracks through the scrub were open slather!

Now the rural default is 60kph, thats right 60kph ,that must be the lowest in the country where as previously they were "unrestricted", so deaths on those tracks now wont be counted towards the toll, making the open road speed limit look more effective.

Clair Martin & Harold Scrubby obviously have never driven on a corrugated road before, as 60kph will probably cause your vehicle to vibrate vital components from your car, causing your vehicle to veer into a table drain, crash & then you become a statistic in a 60k area, instead of a 130k zone, therefore increasing a statistical need for more speed cameras in built up areas. !AARRGGHH! Clair Martin wouldn't know this, she doesn't drive that far, she spends our tax $$$ on flights when ever she goes out to claim credit for another mine being started here.

Governments are spending millions of our tax dollars blaming us with "worst toll ever" campaigns, when in fact the road toll has been declining since 1970. How about advertising "never drive at night", "know your vehicle" & "know your personal limit" campaigns. Empower the public, don't oppress our intelligence.

Territory highways were built for speed, Now the highways are built for fatigue! straight as an arrow for hundreds of kilometers with an almost perfect surface, so good you can tell the difference near the boarder, but now its not // open anymore the road works crews have been pulled out since before Christmas a shop keeper in bees creek told me. This looks like a cocktail for disaster.

FFS, we didn't even have a traffic branch until now, so to me, that goes to show how well the general public can do without "supervision". without contradiction, Darwin has some cowboy drivers out there who wont indicate, or belt up & who run red lights, thats been taken care of now theres a "new traffic". I see them booking drivers everyday that otherwise would have got away scott-free.

The most dangerous place to drive in the NT is between Darwin & Palmerston, its can be like driving in the V8 Supercars at 7:45am & im sure those speed cameras must crank out plenty of revenue, especially when those fines were so cheap, they were cheap enough to risk! 15k only cost me $60 :)

Australia having its own "Autobahn" like other forward thinking countries was pretty cool, an Aussie icon, Stuart Highway, how Aussie is that? i'm sure Stuart would be proud as hell to know that from his incredible effort we Australians could travel at comfortable speeds & explore this beautiful territory. I bet Stuart would have been able to tell a story or two about fatigue.

Good news on the fight for having the NT Speed Limit repealed at

keepntlimitfree.org

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Reply By: Kiwi Kia - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 07:23

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 07:23
It's not worth the effort to argue with you over road safety.
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 09:57

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 09:57
If only the new laws were introduced for safety.
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Follow Up By: Kiwi Kia - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 10:29

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 10:29
Yes, you are so right Hairy.
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Reply By: Member - Karl - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 09:57

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 09:57
Obviously going by his name he is a two wheeler who doesn't like speed limits. Personally I have picked up one too many body parts off of the road after high speed crashes to ever want to speed.
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 10:03

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 10:03
Karl,
If someone made a comment like that about 4wders (putting everyone in the same basket) it would be called 4wd bashing would it not?
Most serious vehicle accidents in the NT are under $130 km?????
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Karl - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 20:36

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 20:36
So what - I still stand by what I said. I don't speed because I have personally had to clean up the mess of one too many speed related accidents - I don't care what anyone says.

When you have to climb a tree to get the remains of someones lower back out of the fork because the motor bike he was riding on (at a speed inexcess of 200 kph) and collided with another vehicle - it alters your perspective on life.

I for one are glad they have bought down the speed limits - now maybe they should learn to drive!!!!
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Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 22:32

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 22:32
I also drive a 2002 E46 BMW, anyway, my point is about fatigue, inadequate driver training, lack of police presence (id feel served well if the police were to catch me doing insane speeds) & all the other dodgy stuff that leads to deaths on our roads.

How many people to you clean up after a 4X4 with a steel bullbar has ploughed through the side of their sedan? Dont answer that, im not here to lay blame, im here to raise awareness! The point is that there is fk all intersections on our highways & visibility is excellent. The fatal crashes concerned are not occurring on the sealed highways, but on bush tracks & in built up areas. But Never Ever Drive the Never Never At Night.

There will ALWAYS be somebody who drives too fast, at least Territorians could get it out of their system on open roads, now they do this is built up areas where they will kill more than just themselves.

What is more important, keeping alert, or watching the speedo?

EDUCATION, TRAINING & AWARENESS is the only long term solution!

I am just an observer of how things happen up here & believe the government is not addressing the real issues & just placing the blame on us with a new tax.
please visit keepntlimitfree.org for better opinions than mine.
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Reply By: Alan H - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 11:16

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 11:16
Inappropriate speed for the conditions of road, weather, car suitability or driver competence kills not just the fact that a vehicle is going fast.
The other "S" word kills far more ......... STUPIDITY!
Alan.
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Follow Up By: handy - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 11:34

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 11:34
spot on alan
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Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 00:08

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 00:08
Exactly right, people will speed no matter what the limit is
& ill say it again;

EDUCATION, TRAINING & AWARENESS is the only long term solution!
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Reply By: Member -Dodger - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 11:41

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 11:41
Just looked up the site
Site Link
You can see that the speed limit on rural roads are now 110kph.
Not 60kph as stated.
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

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Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:20

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:20
60k or 110k, they still wont be counted in the same basket as they were before.
that was my general point. sorry i miss quoted, my stats are usually genuine.
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Reply By: Gerhardp1 - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 15:10

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 15:10
Why should the NT be immune from change?

Citizens of all other states have suffered from Government rip-off in the last years by Governments that can't get anything done to infrastructure because they are too busy counting the money.

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Follow Up By: Hairy - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 16:24

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 16:24
Why should the NT be immune from change?
?????
No one is saying we should but you dont have to agree with it.
Cheers
Hairy
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 16:28

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 16:28
Can't for the life of me see where I agreed.

I made a statement only, didn't agree or disagree.

Methinks you may be completing my sentence for me, as the saying goes. :)
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:23

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:23
Maybe I should have said we dont have to agree with it? ( not you)
The new law in my eyes is just another step in the wrong direction.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:28

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:28
If the NT doesn't take a stand now, ALL OF AUSTRALIA well never progress past elected governments using draconian laws to introduce new taxes that making them feel guilty for issues that don't apply to them.

We can do this "smarter" rather than harder!
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Reply By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 16:43

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 16:43
How many more times is this going to turn up? It's done, get over it.
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:30

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:30
Sorry Gramps,
But it is something we live with every day and its not worth getting over because if enough of us keep letting the Gov. know were not happy with their decision the opposition will change it back.
Bit close to the heart this end and maybe and not appropriate for a 4wd site but there are a lot of people this argument affects and I think we need to voice opinions on it.

Too in depth hey??????
Sorry

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 19:12

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 19:12
Hairy,

LOL My comment was regarding the number of times this particular subject has been discussed here. It seems like it pops up every week or so.

Like most of the other States, you've got a Govt with a sizable majority and an 'attitude' to match. Your next chance to vote them out is when, 2008/2009 ??? The other problem you seem to have is an Opposition without a clue :)))))

I doubt whether this issue is enough to force a change at the next election (but then again, I don't live in NT).

Good luck

p.s. I did like the previous 'unlimited' zones :))))
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 23:16

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 23:16
Gramps,
The scary thing is ,this issue alone probably will change the Gov, LOL
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 00:01

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 00:01
Hahaha if that's the biggest issue you have up there, you're doing a lot better than any of the other states.
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Follow Up By: Member - MrBitchi (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 15:19

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 15:19
"because if enough of us keep letting the Gov. know were not happy with their decision the opposition will change it back"

I'd like to see that!!!!!! ROFLMAO
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Reply By: Andrew from Vivid Adventures - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 16:45

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 16:45
As a lobby group you'd better get your facts straight to start with if you expect any result. Try C-L-A-R-E for a start.
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:32

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:32
Hey????
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Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:49

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:49
sorry if i miss quoted, but my my point is still valid! tx for the tip! Im doing all i can in my spare time as i don't have a multi million dollar budget to get my point out!
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Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 16:36

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 16:36
anyway, i really dont what its name is, i only call her GONE !
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Reply By: steve&anja - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 16:54

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 16:54
Just get over it I to wasn't a fan of the speed limit being dropped and I live in Jabiru, Before the limit was dropped I would travel 130-140 KPH to Darwin and back now I just do 130 time difference not worth talking about. Jodeen Carney spent a lot of tax payer money on a TV add saying she would change it back to an open limit if she was voted in, The CLP has lost the last to elections by a country mile and this is the only policy they can come up with to be re elected good luck. I just drove 14000 km 1/2 way around Oz my average speed was 100 KPH as per law in other states I averaged 600 km per day when moving on and never fell asleep at the wheel so fatigue at this speed limit is rubbish. would I like the open speed limit sure but I would like good policy better.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 17:09

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 17:09
>Just get over it

So... governments can do whatever they like and we should all accept it?

Terrific!

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: steve&anja - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:19

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:19
If this lobby group had a brain between them or in fact were from theTerritory, They would know that Jodeen Carney could lobby the federal government on her own to change the law back. They have the power to change NT law EG the euthanasia law why hasn't she done this as yet because the fed gov wouldn't change or endorse it and she know's it.
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:37

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 18:37
What is the lobby group you talk of?
As for the euthanasia thing I dont think that affects as many peolple as the speed limmits.
Cheers
Hairy
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Follow Up By: steve&anja - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 19:09

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 19:09
The lobby group I talk of, is the site on the bottom of the original post:keepntlimitfree.org .
When you have a look, take notice of there forum with its 25 threads, 58 posts.
A big following or just nobody realy cares...?
As for the euthanasia thing, it was an example of what the Fed Gov can do to NT laws just so as you know the NT Gov passed a law in favour of euthanasia -- a couple of years later the Fed Gov voted against it.
My point was the Fed Gov can, if it wishes to, change the speed limit back.
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Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 19:17

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 19:17
Have you ever tried driving in NT WITHOUT AIR-CON at 130k? I have (ute top speed before she boils) & it was almost fatal! I couldn't find enough rest stops to revive myself, so i was resorting to pulling to the side of the road & walking around the ute to wake myself up! Ill never forget how worried i was driving that time!

We are "self governed", therefore we have the right to create our own laws. If the feds wanted conformance, there would be 110k, no questions asked!

Lobby group? do you mean keepntlimitfree.org ? you make us sound sinister, as for me, im just an average bloke fighting to keep things safe & sensible.
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Follow Up By: steve&anja - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 19:31

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 19:31
Wind your window down, check your facts on self government and what the Fed Gov can do with NT laws, by the way I was there the day we became self governed,yes I have driven a car without air con, and the stuart hwy has road houses every 100 km, and road side stops in between how do I know this becuase I drove it last month.
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Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 19:44

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 19:44
steve&anja,

Last time i checked, i was still living in Darwin!

Its been hard getting the word out that we are based around a forum. The media never state our name properly, its " keepntlimitfree.org "! We are usually called the "the Keep NT Limit Free group". & then trying to get a Territorian online is even harder.

Therefore its been hard to get most people directed to our site. Read the posts, the public are wrapped when they finally find us.

www.keepntlimitfree.org
&
www.no-speedlimit.com

// Divorces Traffic
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 19:45

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 19:45
Steve or Anja

Whatever Jodeen Carney can or cannot do is totally irrelevant in the context of whether people should complain and reject changes which any government chooses to impose upon them - so... no! people should _NOT_ "get over it" - indeed, quite the contrary they should fight government decisions they disagree with: how could you possibly argue otherwise!? For down that pathway subservience and acquiescence lies and we’re already too far there in Australia.

-----------
Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.
Thomas Paine, “Common Sense” (1776)

-----------

It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error.
Robert H. Jackson (1892-1954), U.S. Judge
-----------

Some people who passed before us knew a bit about governments.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: steve&anja - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 20:42

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 20:42
An elected Gov decided to change road rules they thought were out dated, I wasn't happy about this, but the laws have been changed.
I if I wish can vote against the Gov at the next election,this is how things are done in a democracy.
My point is the CLP have been in opposition for 6 years, and this is there only policy.
My other point is that Jodeen Carney can approach the Fed Gov and ask them to change the laws.
If Jodeen Carney has the option of taking this to the Fed Gov, I would say this is relevant, the reason she hasn't is because she already knows the out come.
Lets just see what happens at the next election.
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Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 20:47

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 20:47
Right on Mike,

The federal government told us to address the road crash death rate, however the open speed limit was not the issue. Im sure the Federal government never liked it, but we are "self governed" & the federal has given us a fair go with open limits & they only have asked us to clean up the road toll.

There are many other pressing issues that Jodeen Carney & the CLP are focusing on that the Martin administration ignores, as they will just claim credit for major projects that bring employment opportunities, when in fact these overseas countries are raping our country & taking our resources overseas, only to sell them back to us!

NT Parliament introduced the law, it can be Repealed the same! An Australian government should not deceive their voters, it is wrong weather or not you agree with them, & this alone should be enough reason for a change of government.

read the truth here>

www.keepntlimitfree.org
&
www.no-speedlimit.com

// Divorces Traffic
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Reply By: steve&anja - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 17:26

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 17:26
This government isn't going to change it back. What I said was if your going to vote the CLP in that says they will change it I would like them to have other policies as well, Because this is there only policy they have come up with since they were voted out.
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 23:27

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 23:27
I really dont give a rats what brand of Gov. is in. Theyre all crooks.
But ill probablly vote for the one who comes up with the best promise at the time.
And at the moment, changing the speed limit is doing well!
But if the other mob said it was illegal to break into my house or harase old people I would probably vote for them.
And thats enough politics for me.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 23:48

Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 23:48
Public pressure CAN, WILL & DOES persuade governments. The problem is up here everyone is too bloody laid back to give a shist about anything.

NT runs itself almost, employment is booming & industry is exploding, but those who move here don't know how to live without a government telling them what to do, therefore they just believe what they see on the telly.

Real Territorians know what the true problems are & will probably only raise their hand at election time (if enrolled).

Please visit www.keepntlimitfree.org for all the facts.
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Follow Up By: steve&anja - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 00:07

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 00:07
How long have you lived in the territory be honest, and stop yelling im not deaf.
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Reply By: Kumunara (NT) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 02:03

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 02:03
Where did you get the information that the speed limit on rural roads is 60 km/h?

The Australian Road Rules state:
"25 Speed-limit elsewhere
(1) If a speed-limit sign does not apply to a length of road and the length of road is not in a speed-limited area, school zone or shared zone, the speed-limit applying to a driver for the length of road is the default speed-limit.

Note Length of road is defined in the dictionary, school zone is defined in rule 23, shared zone is defined in rule 24, and speed-limited area is defined in rule 22.
(2) The default speed-limit applying to a driver for a length of road in a built-up area is 60 kilometres per hour.
Note Built-up area is defined in the dictionary.
(3) The default speed-limit applying to a driver for any other length of road is:
(a) for a driver driving a bus with a GVM over 5 tonnes, or another vehicle with a GVM over 12 tonnes — 100 kilometres per hour; or
(b) for any other driver — 100 kilometres per hour or as otherwise provided under another law of this jurisdiction."

The speed limit on rural roads other when signposted is 100 km/h. Not 60 km/h as you have incorrectly stated. Your argument for having no speed limit has no credibility when you base that argument on incorrect information.



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AnswerID: 224233

Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 16:34

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 16:34
hasn't this already issue been addressed? look further back than the last post mate!

Its 80 now!
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Follow Up By: steve&anja - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 18:08

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 18:08
I think your practising to be a politician.
You have danced around my posts without giving them a credible answer,you have miss quoted your own web site twice and you haven't answer my question on how long you've lived here.
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 18:25

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 18:25
GSX-R 600

Can't you read. I quoted the law on the subject which says that the speed on rural roads unless signed is 100 km/h.

You quoted it as 60 km/h.

Now you say it is 80 km/h.

It is 100 km/h. The same as for the rest of Australia.

As I said you arguments lack credibility and your only consistant with your inaccuracies.
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Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Thursday, Mar 01, 2007 at 23:44

Thursday, Mar 01, 2007 at 23:44
sorry, i miss quoted. i took this info for granted!

The Northern Territory Government today confirmed changes to the regulation of the default speed limit for Territory roads.

Transport Minister Dr Chris Burns said the responsibility for setting default speed limits in built-up areas will reside with local authorities.

“Unless otherwise determined, the default speed limit across the Territory will remain at 60kph,” Dr Burns said.
source: Site Link

&

To date the townships of CoxPeninsula, Jabiru, AdelaideRiver, Batchelor, Tennant Creek, Palmerston and Darwin will be introducing the 50 Km/h default speed limit on 31 March 2005.
source: Site Link

does your dictionary know where these roads are?
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Follow Up By: Andrew from Vivid Adventures - Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 00:30

Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 00:30
Ummmm ... it says:

"From January, the Stuart Highway and other major highways will be restricted to 130 kilometres an hour, with a default speed limit of 110 kilometres an hour on other roads."

I don't think you're cut out for being a lobbyist, but all the best with your campaign.
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Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 00:41

Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 00:41
lol, im only trying
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Reply By: d.j.s. - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 12:35

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 12:35
In January last year there was 1 death on NT roads. This January there was 5. Good to see those new speed limits are off to a good start.
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 13:40

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 13:40
7 as of yesterday!
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Reply By: whyallacookie - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 15:10

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 15:10
As a former Territorian I don't like the change. I have always travelled at around 100-120 due to the vehicles I was driving. Funny thing is before the speed limit was introduced most sat on around 130 anyway.

BUT the highway is in very good condition with long stretches of straight and lots of km's to cover. (By the way get out your road map and check the 100km's between roadhouses)

Modern vehicles are more than capable of those sorts of speeds relatively safely with reduced travel times meaning reduced fatique. Fatique is one of the biggest reasons for fatalities on country roads. (And before you start quotating speed, excessive speeds for the conditions cause fataliaties, not the speed itself)

100 through mountain passes is way too fast and causes plenty of deaths.

Yes the opposition can lobby the federal government, Do you really think that is not going to be a waste of time? Even if it was controversial a federal government is not going to overturn a State/Teritory governments laws because the opposition has questioned it. Especially when the federal government are using blackmail (withholding funding if they don't comply) to get the laws changed

Or are we happy for governments to do what they want? (And a federal government to dictate what the states can and can't do? If so let's get rid of state geovernments and save some money)
By all means appeal the laws and good luck.
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Reply By: Hairy - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 19:05

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 19:05
As far as road toll goes, you can make that 8 now.
Two in the car, 1 dies, the other walks out of hospital.
No seatbelt! The speed was irrelevant.

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Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 00:00

Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 00:00
When will Clare realize she has made a mistake & address the causes of these unfortunate accidents?
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Reply By: Kumunara (NT) - Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 00:33

Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 00:33
GSX-R 600

You started complaining about the speed limits on rural roads. You quoted the wrong speed limits on two occasions.

Now you replied to me with the following quote:

"The Northern Territory Government today confirmed changes to the regulation of the default speed limit for Territory roads.

Transport Minister Dr Chris Burns said the responsibility for setting default speed limits in built-up areas will reside with local authorities.

“Unless otherwise determined, the default speed limit across the Territory will remain at 60kph,” Dr Burns said."

If you read the quote you will notice that Dr Burns is referring to built up areas. They were previously called town, township and municipalities in the old Road Traffic Act. He is not referring to rural roads.

I can only draw the conclusion that you cannot understand what you read. You seem to be on a bandwagon over this issue and it has clouded your perception. Please do not bother to reply unless you have some accurate information which shows you may have something between your ears other than a void.
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AnswerID: 224840

Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 01:01

Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 01:01
i used to think it strange as i passed unsealed roads that there were never any speed signs & now theres shiny new signs at the start of every unsealed road, therefore i had attributed the open speed limit to whatever lay past //.

I see totaled troop-carriers come into work constantly that have come in from communities & its obvious that they are dirt bashers. less than 3 years old & they are ALWAYS fkd! (& smell so dam bad). Theres some really damaged vehicles that come in from down the track!

Im just trying to make sense of why there are 39 "long grassers" to 12 "white fellas" dying out there, & then claire comes out with the "52 territorians per year" rant & rave. The numbers are dam close enough to suggest something awry.
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Reply By: Kumunara (NT) - Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 02:22

Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 02:22
Let’s go again.

Statistics in the NT for the 12 months to 30/09/2006:

45 fatalities.

26 were indigenous (An increase of 30% over the previous 12 months.)
19 non-indigenous.

Of the indigenous persons killed 10 were pedestrians - non-indigenous 3.

Serious injury crashes
390 non-indigenous
123 indigenous.

As 50% of the NT population is indigenous the high number of serious injuries involving non-indigenous people is alarming.

I don't know where you got your statistics from but the above are the official statistics from the NT Government site. Again you are wrong. I thought it was three strikes and you’re out. Your count is now four.

You stated “EDUCATION, TRAINING & AWARENESS is the only long term solution”

What education have you had regarding road safety?
What driver training have you had?
Have you done a defensive driving or advanced driving course?
Have you heard of the fatal 5 and to increase your awareness – what are they?
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AnswerID: 224845

Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 17:57

Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 17:57
those stats are from dirrerent years, but shows a general average, it not like they drastically change every year.

& training, fk, ive done heaps, $1000 worth last year alone at METAL! Defensive driving in QLD a few years ago (all advanced courses) & i practice these techniques everyday. I recommend everybody does something similar.

you sound like Clare Martins bitch or something, what is your fkn problem dick? I'm only TRYING to make sense of all the hype about & all your contributions sounds like the bile that spews from the NT propaganda machine, why don't you just shut the fk up, or say something constructive!

Ohh, & how about providing links to where u get your info from, now that would be usefull. Tx.

Im certainly no professional at campaigning, im just trying to work out the truth. Im just an Aussie bloke who has felt ripped off when our elected government lied to us, i joined www.keepntlimitfree.org as they are there to get people aware of the tricks being played, & you could be usefull as you sound like you can find good info, but im not sure of your cause.

Tx for you input.
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Reply By: Kumunara (NT) - Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 19:10

Friday, Mar 02, 2007 at 19:10
GSX-R 600

I commend you for your persistence.

The reason I asked you what training etc. you had done is because what you have said indicates that you have either had no training. The training given you was deficient. You did not learn from your training.

You have kept replying with more incorrect and misinterpreted data.

Now you are calling me a dick and Claire Martin’s bitch. I must have touched a raw nerve.

Where I am coming from is this. I have spent over 35 years of my working life attending the scenes of Road Collisions. I have prepared reports for the Coroner. I know what causes road crashes more than you ever will and anything that will reduce the road collision rate is worthwhile doing.

Licentious people who think they are above the law prefer not to face reality. They make up rubbish to try and justify themselves. I have heard people in the NT blame the rate of collisions on Indigenous people. I have heard them try and blame it on interstate and overseas tourist. The statistics prove them wrong.

I have seen the results of the fatal 5 including speeding. Speeding is only one of the fatal five but it was the cause of 7 deaths in the NT in the 12 months to 30/06/2006. That is 7 people who would still be alive. That is not looking at the people who suffer serious injuries. Many of those are left with disabilities that affect themselves and their families.

I support anything that will improve road safety. That includes the lowering of the speed limit. I do not want to see people killed or injured due to the negligence or recklessness of others.

If you have as you claimed done a defensive driving course you should have learnt about braking distances, reaction times, etc. Driving at 110 km/h you have a far greater chance of avoiding a collision than you do at 130 km/h. We all make mistakes. We are not perfect. The faster you are travelling the greater the chance of that mister having disastrous consequences.
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AnswerID: 224963

Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Saturday, Mar 03, 2007 at 01:03

Saturday, Mar 03, 2007 at 01:03
If i were to name myself BMW E46, would you think safer of me?

Yep, i did learn braking distances, reaction times, I also was trained to practice these in a // environment & the trainers fully prepared us for open limit traveling, reaction times, stopping distances, wildlife & "personal limits".

Therefore i know my "personal limit" is 180 to 220k on a perfect day, on a perfect stretch! I believe EVERYBODY should do similar training! Obviously your personal limit would be much slower! I don't know, im not here to impose on your freedom!

Fatal 5, what the hell is that?

There hasn't been any information like that broadcast by our government that i know of (problem there)!

FACT: Road toll is already higher this year than last year, even with 80k being the new "default"!

FACT: those 7 deaths attributed to speed cant be from //, as they never did blame excessive speed because there was no speed limit.

FACT: All roads in NT were "open" by default.

An "advisory" limit of 130k needs to be installed as Germany, Italy, State of Montana USA & other // countries use to gauge problems on their highways.

So if rural the default is 80k & the toll this year is already higher, this alone suggests that the highways are now much more deadly.

I am sorry you have to clean up after terrible accidents, but my opinion as a cleaner is that everybody are filthy grotts, but im sure thats not the case, is it?

Dont put me in a basket until you put me in a bodybag!

I get my facts from atsb website, suss it out, as im sure they are legit!
or call the road saftey Taskforce Hotline on 1800 720 144!

PS. yes i was a little heated from getting put in the "same basket" as you would be if i was to lay blame on bullbar wearing, city driving, jacked up suspension V8 4X4s', would you not?

But 4X4 crash numbers are almost as little as motorcycle deaths as we both are more aware than the average motorist & we are not the problem out there!

Education, Information & Awareness is the only serious campaign to lower crash death rates worldwide!

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FollowupID: 485960

Reply By: Kumunara (NT) - Saturday, Mar 03, 2007 at 10:28

Saturday, Mar 03, 2007 at 10:28
For your continued education. The fatal five is:

1. Alcohol
2. Excessive speed
3. Fatigue
4. Seat belts
5. Vulnerable road users (Pedestrians, cyclist, Motor cyclists)

To make the roads safer for everyone they must all be addressed.

You quoted speeds that you consider yourself safe at on a perfect day. Nothing is ever perfect. We as humans are not perfect and make mistakes. Defensive driving is about driving in a manner to as much as humanly possible avoid collisions caused by the mistakes of others. Travelling at 110 km/h you have better odds of doing this than at 190 km/h.

Do you know the braking distances at those speeds. Do some research it will surprise you.

Senna was the best racing driver I have ever seen but he died in the controlled environment of a race track. The greater the speed the greater the risk.

The greatest cause of the mayhem that occurs on the roads in the NT is alcohol. Unfortunately all the attention at this time is on speed. We should be discussing all five and how to make the roads safer for everyone.

All the attention is also on the number of fatalities. The number of serious injury accidents is also appalling.

Perhaps instead of lobbying for open speed limits you should start lobbying the government to do something about all the fatal five.

You should start talking to Doctors, Nurses, Paramedics and Police Officers about their thoughts regarding the introduction of the speed limits. They are the people that have to deal with the carnage on the roads.

Talk to people who have had to grieve for relatives they have lost.

Talk to people who have to care for a quadriplegic or paraplegic relative.

Talk to the people who have lost their sight because they didn’t wear a seat belt.

If you do that your perceptions might change. You may receive some valuable education.
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AnswerID: 225047

Follow Up By: GSX-R 600 - Saturday, Mar 03, 2007 at 11:57

Saturday, Mar 03, 2007 at 11:57
Spot on! All these factors contribute to major carnage on our roads & now those results have been directed to open // limits.

With No Education Campaigns to empower the public on these fatal five, its no surprise to see the cowboy attitude up here.

Thats what has annoyed me, after all those needles deaths on our roads, only the most minor factor of them all has been the major target.

No accidents have been proven to be caused by speed, as there was no advised speed. 130k is proving itself to be a killer with how many deaths so far this year? 130k needs to be implemented as an advisory speed only.

I think www.keepntlimitfree.org is trying to prove that if all other factors were addressed, the open road toll would be drastically reduced. Already with the rural & open road default limits being set, the toll is already higher this year than for the total of all // roads last year.

I slow down when approaching traffic, or its more like i speed up when the path is clear, the road is straight & visibility is good, as most educated people do.

Slowing down from high speed is very easy, if i were traveling at 200k i can loose the top 100k so dam fast its crazy, as the wind pressure does most of the work, i dont even use the brakes at those speeds untill im less than 100k or so, & if i am correctly scanning what is ahead & to the side of the road there shouldn't be anything to make me slam on the anchors.

PS. I should have run the name BMW E46 as is seems that motorcyclists have a bad rep.

Education, Information & Awareness, the only solution!
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