Ngaanyatjarra Council - CSR Permits etc

Maybe you should read their disclaimer first:

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The information contained in this publication, including particulars of community locations on maps, is based on information available to the Department of Indigenous Affairs Australia at the time of publication. While every endeavour has been made to ensure that the information is as accurate as possible, no warranty is given about its accuracy, nor that it is free from error or omission. The information may become out of date over time.

The State of Western Australia and its servants expressly disclaim liability for any act or omission done in reliance on this publication and for the consequences of any such act or omission.
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Andrew

Yes I should have :)

It virtually writes the government out of the equation though doesn't it?

Members of the Ngaanyatjarra Council were looking at your comments today in response to my advice I posted and they sent me some information as a result - perhaps it clarifies some points:

cut/paste from email:
"I just want to clarify that DIA only manage permits for entry to Aboriginal reserves subject to Part III of the Aboriginal Affairs Planning Authority Act 1972. This is WA legislation.

The CSR is not an Aboriginal Reserve. The permits are issued because the CSR is subject to exclusive possession native title determination under the Native Title Act 1993, which is Federal legislation. Therefore the Department of Indigenous Affairs does not and cannot administer the permits.

Native Title Project Officer
Ngaanyatjarra Council
Native Title Unit"

Thanks Michelle - it has been some years now since I have studied the various land legislations. Your excerpt from the email is helpful.

All I want to do is visit some of the out of the way places, not destroy them. My first love is Australia, not 4WDriving.

If members of the council are reading, you may email myself at equinox@aijv.com.au to start a dialogue if you wish. I am not affiliated with anyone, with the exception of Exploroz, of which I am a member, and the Royal Western Australian Historical Society, of which I am also a member.

Regards

Here here - Somebody please tell me WHY we need permits to travel around OUR country? I was born here and will travel around the places I want to with NO permits. I cannot see any reason why we need permits to see our OWN great country.
Sorry mate but you got me started.
The Bigfella

The Bigfella

you must have never traveled around outback SA, cost $90.00 for the white mans permit?????

Richard

Bilbo whats TAX got to do with it (or do you mean rates)?

Richard

I have actually. Went to the Birdsville Races in 2005 and then spent a week travelling all around Innamincka (Camped below the town on the common and paid my $5 a night to camp) but never got any permits as I refuse to buy them to look around my own great country. I do like your comment "white man's permit".
Cheers
Brian (The Bigfella)

Richard,

Perhaps a little story may help with the understanding,,,,,,

A long time ago I was out prospecting around Banjawarn Station, up near the Gunbarrel Highway. My companions were a dozen aboroginal freinds - all big drinkers. Only one of 'em had a job - Stanley, he was the grader driver for the Leonora Shire. I also had a regular job at the time.

We were sat there one night, drinking and roasting a roo and an emu in the ground, Stanley and the others were well on thier way to being tanked. I was half way there,,,,,,,,

We were all laughing 'n joking when Stanley, staggered ovder to me and said," Les, we's brudders".

I said,"Brothers? brothers? How can we be brothers Stanley, you're a Wongi abo from Laverton and I'm a white bloke from England?"

Stanley said," Les, ahh meant it man, we's brudders man,,,,,,"

I said," How dya work that out Stanley?"

He said," Look at 'em, Les, lazy, idle bastards, drinking, drinking, none of 'em ever work, dey want money fer dis and money fer dat, mate dey want money for walkin', money fer eatin' 'n money for bleep tin'. Les, we's brudders,,,,,,,hic"

"How Stanley? How are we brothers"

"Les - we de only ones paying dat puckin' income tax!!"

This is a true story of "Money for Nothing and Yer Chicks fer Free"............

Bilbo - "The indignant, I paid one time, I won't pay again Hobbit"

Well Bilbo,

That is nearly enough to be aboriginal as far as the legislation is concerned, so you can go anywhere pretty much; kill anything - so long as you plan on eatin' it; and you never know, you might qualify for sit down money.

Cheers
Andrew.

Andrew,

With the exception of the "sit down" money, you've got everything else just about right,,,,,,,,,,,,

Bilbo - "The honorary Yamatji hobbit"

This is a very interesting point of discussion.

We need some lawyer to really do some sort of analysis as to whether this applies still and if so, in which states.

Same goes for public roads. If they are declared and gazetted public roads, and are not declared closed, are they open?

Kim

Where do you get a list of gazetted stock route or roads, tracks etc. (in any state or ter.)

Ive asked around and nobody seems to answer my question?

I would like to know as in planning routes I would then know who to phone, write too to get permission,

Thanks

Richard

The SA Gov has a website listing all the Public Access Routes managed by the Pastoral Board.

As fate would have it, the site - http://www.rangelands.sa.gov.au/ is currently saying "We're sorry. This service is currently unavailable".

Now, about gazetted roads ... in SA or anywhere else, I don't know how it works really, but I wish I did.

Richard

There is no easy answer. I don't know if I still have a copy of the original CSR easement, but will have a look over the weekend.

It gets worse if your looking for little known (forgotten) stock routes. We travelled down one of these routes in the Pilbara last year and it took 12 months of hard work to find the documentation. In this case it came from the archives of the Perth library.

Some of these maps are very old and can be difficult to interpret in a modern landscape.

Quite a few of the old stock routes run through isolated country with the route being determined by the supply of water rather than track access.

Regards

Kim

Hi Colin

'Constance Hedland then out to the south via Eagle Hwy'.

Even if you were to obtain a permit....this is definitely NOT Subaru country however capable the little cars may be.

From Birrell Rockhole to the east it is trackless for around 200km to the Eagle Hwy

Cheers

err..yeah, was thinking the same thing actually...

um, what's the story with the csr photo in you rig profile?

You asking me, Bushfix?

My rig photo is not on the CSR.

Cheers

nah mate,

talking about photo #6 in Member Colin's profile, lovely red dirt though :)

Willem
I have done several trips in country that wasn't supposed to be Subaru friendly.

Photo
The photo is of me having some fun on a dune at the south of Lake Aerodrome (I think) in my old 'L' series. The dirt is nice and red isn'y it.

Permitts
On the subject of permission to visit these places I must admitt I am becoming increasingly angry by the Aboringinals standing on this matter.
The Calverts 'art' for instance, the 'local' Aboringines know nothing about it, they were drawn by people who pre-date them.
So what happens if you just ignor the request for a permitt and visit these places without one?

Hi Colin

"So what happens if you just ignor the request for a permitt and visit these places without one?"

They will close them down for good and lock out everyone

I think that's not a wise move, I hope there are a lot more responsible people than not. So that would mean you will tickoff at lot of people..

There are a lot of thing we don't agree with in life but we must obey them.

Richard

Just come to Vic none of this crap here, travel and booze whereever you want. Victoria, the land of the free :)

why not overcome the issue with friendship and reconcilliation.

Make ten indigenous friends and I'll swear that you'll be able to go almost anywhere if you get their help.

I'm not saying that every indigenous person makes a good friend, nor that it is easy, but in my view, it bodes better for our enjoyment of this wide land.