Recovery Options - Advice Required
Submitted: Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 13:14
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The Explorer
Ok - scenario - (names and specific locations supressed to protect the innocent ..and guiltly)
Fellow workmates have managed to get a Landcruiser bogged a few days ago. They have had to leave it there (in
Pilbara - several kilometres off main highway) as they were required to move onto another site and couldnt afford to wait around for ground conditions to improve (they had two vehicles). I have been given the job of trying to recover the bogged vehicle as I am heading past on Saturday.
It is unclear how close I will be able to get to the vehicle or from what side (ie front or back). I can only assume that a snatch strap, shackles and maybe a bow to distribute tension on anchor points (Standard Toyotas - assume two at front or tow hitch pin at back will be my only options?? Not the best I know!) and some digging maybe the go. Boss has suggested I get 30m of chain and attempt to use that if I cant get too close. I was thinking maybe 20m winch extension strap + snatch strap...or maybe 2 snatch straps together - but I am not sure if these are accepatable (safe/effective) methods. I have used just snatch straps and just chains before but have never had to join straps together (Though I am aware of method of joining straps properly).
So would like some expert advice on what would be best set of gear to take along considering I may have to take it on the flight with me (so I cant take everthing to cover all possibilities).....though I maybe able to purchase some stuff in
Port Hedland. At this stage I am thinking 20m winch extension strap or tow strap, snatch strap, required number of shackles and two straps suitable for use as bows (or whatever you call them - are tree trunk protectors suitable for this purpose?).
I will only attempt to get the car out if it is safe to do so - may just leave it there for the next lot of guys the week after. I do not know how badly it is bogged - maybe able to drive it out now??
Cheers
Greg
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Reply By: Tony - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 13:34
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 13:34
Will you have an offsider with you?
Its best not to use winch extn straps unless you are using a power/hand winch. They are not made for towing but static winch loads.
So snatch straps are the best along with a bit of digging, jacking and placeing material under the tyres.
Join two or more straps with timber, the size of cut up shovel handle, about a foot long 350mm. Only shackle to vehicle, or use recovery hook and tow bar pin.
Hope this helps a bit.
AnswerID:
228798
Reply By: dawesy - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 13:37
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 13:37
I've used a 30m Extension strap connected to a snatch strap several times with great success. Treated it just like a snatch recovery and all came out OK. In fact employed it just a couple of weeks ago 4 or5 times to get a bunch of Hiluxes and 70 series up a set of
rock steps.
Really the only other way I can think of is with a winch using your vehicle as an anchor, but I've not done much in the way of serious recoveries.
AnswerID:
228799
Reply By: Member - bushfix - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 13:39
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 13:39
G'day,
bogged in mud I assume? Will you be on your own? If so, I would not recommend a snatch job. I would dig out at the front of the tyres, drop the pressures and try to drive out first. If that did not work I would drop the pressures further. If still stuck I would try to pull it out gently with a chain or extension strap. A "bridle" strap is what you are referring to as a "bow" and is a good idea, especially if it is stuck
well.
If you have some help then a snatch could be tried but it depends how deep the bog is if it is mud, a lot of force required to break the suction, so would be a bit more dangerous.
I assume you will have a work vehicle fitted with good recovery points also. I believe tree trunk protectors should not be used as bridle straps if poss, they are not built for the single point stressing involved.
ususal advice like
check the condition and rating of your gear before you take/use it. don't use unnecessary force.
initial thoughts anyway.
AnswerID:
228802
Reply By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 13:42
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 13:42
Hmmmm .........Snatch-em straps are useless with a winch,Do not use them on tow balls, or anything that looks weak. those items become a deadly missile,Best thing to use is Ext' Straps and chains,on winch cable.
I have a Snatch-Em Strap , I have no intensions of using it ,I'll swap it for a Ext' Strap , or maybe even give it away,or dump it
AnswerID:
228803
Reply By: GerryP - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 13:43
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 13:43
Hi Explorer,
Make sure you deflate the tyres. Many times, this has been all that has been required to be able to drive out.
Gerry
AnswerID:
228805
Reply By: Willem - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 14:00
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 14:00
I came by accident upon this method.
Going a month or so back(posted on
forum) I rescued two bogged vehicles.
The last vehicle to be extricated from the mud was a Mazda Bravo sitting on its chassis in the mud with weater up to its lights. Due to the soft mud we had to make up a connection of around 80 metres between the two vehicles. So we set about using everything we had and that included two tree trunk protectors, steel cable, snatch straps, snatch rope and even a tirfor in the middle. D-shackles, U-bolts and Bow shackles made the connections.
I then reversed ever so slowly without using a snatch method and as the flexing concoction tightened it just pulled the Mazda out of its predicament without any fuss.
Cheers
AnswerID:
228809
Follow Up By: Kev M (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 14:11
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 14:11
So I take it that your not keen for a leisurely drive over to help him out Willem? ha ha ha
Cheers Kev
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Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 14:18
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 14:18
If Greg's boss pays the fuel and tucker I will leave before tonite...lol. Probably wont be there till next week somehow.....
FollowupID:
489549
Follow Up By: Kev M (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 14:54
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 14:54
Don't forget to pack the boat it may still be a bit wet over there.
Kev
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 09:57
Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 09:57
Willem - How much for the elephant - might need it:)
Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 10:13
Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 10:13
Greg
You could round up a few camels. There are plenty feral ones running around the
Pilbara area
Cheers
FollowupID:
489740
Reply By: Member - Rotord - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 14:19
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 14:19
You can buy any gear needed in
Port Hedland . The Toyota dealer has ARB , and Blackwoods has a big range shackles etc .
AnswerID:
228812
Follow Up By: The Explorer - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 09:58
Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 09:58
Thanks - just saved me some driving around (Maybe)
Cheers
Greg
| I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874 Lifetime Member
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Reply By: Robin - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 14:24
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 14:24
Hi Explorer
Same here, winch extension strap first with gentle consistent pull, and as per
others doing what you can to get best traction from both vehicles first.
Two other things, a section of chain is good if extension strap will pass over
rock etc.
Also set of wheel chains will dramatically increase your pulling power especially if pulling vehicle is positioned such that its chains can bite in !
Robin Miller
AnswerID:
228813
Reply By: Bilbo - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 15:07
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 15:07
Explorer,
Before ya start going mad with buying shackles 'n ropes 'n straps 'n stuff 'n how to put it all together consider,,,,,,,,,,
I'd say from the recent weather up there that it was originally bogged in wet mud?? If so, there's damn good chance that now that everythings dried out, it's no longer bogged in mud - but jammed hard fast in hard baked clay! I've seen trucks and 4bys stuck in stuff like this, only to go back days later after it's all dried out and found we needed a jackhammer to break up the baked mud to get 'em out.
Also, I wouldn't consider doing this alone. It's all very
well doing these things when yer on your own to start with and you've got no choice. But when ya don't know what ya walking into it's best to take along some help. If you try something, say on jack or with a snatchstrap and it all goes wrong, you could need up stuck under the car or with shackle through yer
scone! Consider,,,,,,,,,
If you're an employee of the company that owns the car and you get hurt, the first thing the Workers Comp Insurance is gonna say is,"WTF was he doing out there on his own?". This is a controllable situation and if it goes wrong, your boss is up the creek without a paddle. Will he pay you if you get hurt. Will he pay you if the WC Insurance don't pay up? You have a duty of care to yourself. If you get hurt on yer out there on yer own, you'll be partly to blame and the compo will consequently reduced.
Think about it,,,,,,,
I've seen people try to do the right thing before and get terribly caught out. They ended up with next to nothing as they brought it on themselves.
Bilbo - "The former Operations Manager hobbit"
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 10:04
Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 10:04
No worries Bilbo - I will have someone with me (who hopefully has some knowledge on the subject in question - never met him before) along with sat phone epirb etc. I don not intend on taking any chances with resepct to our safety. Basically just going to do what I can with resources at hand - if any unreasonable risk then it will be back to what I do best - admiring the scenery while driving to our next destination.
Cheers
Greg
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Reply By: Member - Franga (QLD) - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 15:12
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 15:12
Hi Greg
The only other thing I can add is if you have access to a Bull Bag, it may give you a bit of an advantage of lifting vehicle up so you can chock the wheels and also break the suction.
Other than that best of luck,play it safe and hope we here how you went.
Regards
Franga
AnswerID:
228823
Reply By: Mudness - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 15:15
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 15:15
Hey, why not use the highlift jack and some planks of wood, logs, sheets of ply, whatever you can get, there should be plenty at the Hedland tip by now:) Jack her up, chuck something under the wheels and drive away (let tyres down as suggested if the surrounding ground is still soft). Good luck.
AnswerID:
228824
Follow Up By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 15:47
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 15:47
Best job I ever did on a bogged vehicle (my own) in deep mud was 7 pallets! Used 1 as the base for the high lift, 1 under each front wheel (after the high lift was put into action on the bullbar), and a couple more in front of each front wheel for a bit of a road. Once winched up onto the pallets a bit, it was an easy tow out, and provided fire wood for my next 2 trips out to that location, although will never go near that part of the beach again except on foot!
Cheers Andrew
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Reply By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 15:27
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 15:27
1. A good shovel
2. A bar to break up the mud if its baked hard, then use the shovel.
3. An exhaust air bag jack to lift the vehicle up out of wheel hole/rut.
Then fill in the hole and lower vehicle. Move round to next wheel and do same again. Now the vehicle is at ground level and not bottomed out it should be able to roll forward easily.
4. Lower the tyre pressure down to about 15 psi and try to drive out.
5. If above fails then try using an assist from your own vehicle using strops. Don't use any shackles to join strops. Kinetic straps are the best but I would not use more then two connected together at one time. Use as many extension straps as you want and have them connected to the kinetic strap as
well. Just don't put a sudden load on the extension straps on their own as if they were a stretchy (kinetic) strap.
If you have to do an assist pull in reverse you can always put the hood up as a missile protection if a strap parts during the pull.
The best tool you have is your shovel, try and get everything right first time, a bit more effort with the shovel at the beginning will be
well worth while in the long run.
AnswerID:
228827
Reply By: Johnnotoo - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 17:15
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 17:15
I would take a tirfor type cable winch, 2 snatch blocks - 1 to halve the load and the other to alter direction of pull if required, a handfull of rated shackles, a tree protectot/bridle, 2 extension straps with a copy of 4x4 magazine to use at join to stop straps from overtightening together when joined (you also have something to read on the plane +
toilet paper!) , shovel and axe.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 17:16
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 17:16
you can o a one man snatch hook up snatch as nomal and drive till its
well and truly stretched then chuck it in low1 (If i wasnt already) and turn it off. then jump in bogged vehicle and try and dive it out. Try and stay away fom strap when changing vehicles
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Gob & Denny - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 18:56
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 18:56
make sure its in 4wd and the hubs are locked in ???????
steve
siller things have happened
AnswerID:
228852
Reply By: Member - Brian T (VIC) - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 22:04
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 22:04
If it's a work vehicle, tell your boss that for safety and insurance reasons that when you get on site, it is to risky for you to do and you will need to call in the nearest fully insured towing company. That way if anything goes wrong you are all safe etc.
Safest and easiest way.
Don't let the boss be a cheapskate and enjoy the break..
Cheers.
AnswerID:
228898
Reply By: Kevern - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 23:09
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 23:09
Unless you are specifically trained and employed to do the job I would be telling my boss to hire a recovery team. If you did attempt the job and god forbid you got hurt you might have a hard time in relation to workers comp. I know this sounds a bit extreme but if you don't look out for yourself who will. just my opinion
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 10:55
Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 10:55
Yes its extreme.
One certainly does not need specific training to unbog a vehicle, just a bit of common sense, of which I am sure Greg has an amount of...lol
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 18:54
Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 18:54
Willem, you would probably be very surprised at what you "need" specialised training to do when working for largemining companys
Leinster has a 2hour training session complete with video on how to dealwith Lightning.
I would certainly prefer to attempt a recovery than do my normal work anyday trained or not!
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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 19:25
Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 19:25
Yes Davoe, I know that the mines with Workplace Safety are over the top to the extreme guarding against anything !!
I did an induction course at
Jabiru for the
Ranger Uranium
Mine wayyyyy back in 1980. Workplace Safety wasn't so paranoid then but we still had to go through a series of courses. From memory the induction took 4 hours.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 12:12
Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 12:12
Hey what happened to the elephant? - I was using it for moral support.
Ok I have done a little bit of "training" with respect to vehicle revovery but certainly nothing to boast about, but do have ~20 years experience of using nothing but 4WDs for 20 years at work - I certainly don't consider myself an expert or anything like it which is why I posted question in first place. As Willem correctly points out (despite the lol) I (think I) have a reasonable amount of common sense despite the existence of evidence to the contrary (eg screwed up marriage certificate:)
Mining companies are can certainly be considered over the top with respect to safety - but they have to be and you cant legitimately argue against it. Some of their training/assessment courses (if thats what they're called) are a bit sad though. The Defensive 4wd Driving Techniques Course carried out in
Perth is required to work at some sites - the course (partly) involves driving along a smooth, wide gravel road in the hills. If you don't crash or scare the pants off everyone in the car during a 5 minute "test" ,you pass. Glad I didnt have to pay the $$$ myself for that.
Cheers
Greg
| I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874 Lifetime Member
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Follow Up By: Willem - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 18:55
Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 18:55
Greg
Ummmm....I can email the elephant to you, if it helps....lol
FollowupID:
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Reply By: The Explorer - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 11:01
Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 11:01
Thanks - will go through all the information supplied and make a list of minimum gear required. Just wanted some first hand accounts of what other people have done/would do as food for thought. All info provided has been very helpful. We are under no obligation to recover the vehicile so absolutley no pressure to acheive anything (way I like it). I have not asked why some other course of possibly more approprate action has been taken to recover vehicle - not my problem..anyway the least we can do is provide a bit more information on the nature of the predicament for next crew.
I havent been there (after it rained) so no idea of the conditions....all I know now is that it is a trayback ute and it is
well and truely bogged in a low lying area - clayish sand/sandy clay. Hopefully the area has dried out and it will be an easy excercise.
Saftey is of course number 1 priority - will not be trying anything out of the ordinary. Will provide boss with some
feedback if need be regarding potential safety issues once I see the situation first hand.
Cheers
Greg
| I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874 Lifetime Member
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Reply By: Member - Rotord - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 11:27
Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 11:27
When you get to
Port Hedland give me a call on 0419 969845 and I will organize the loan of long handled shovels , star pickets , planks and the like . Will also be able to organize a hand winch or heavy duty come along .
AnswerID:
228965
Follow Up By: The Explorer - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 16:06
Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 16:06
Good stuff - will give you a call tomorrow some time to sort out finer details.
If I do borrow some gear will ensure some from of payment for 'hire'. One issue is that I will not be able to return gear for a week as after attempting recovery going via
Pardoo and then eastwards for rest of week. Will discuss with you.
Cheers
Greg
| I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874 Lifetime Member
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Follow Up By: Member - Rotord - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 17:53
Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 17:53
More rain at
Pardoo today , might pay to take a fair bit of
recovery gear with you .
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 19:35
Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 19:35
Thanks - we are not required to spend too much time on it so wont get too carried away - others are coming Monday - it was just a case of 'if its simple get it out". May not fall into this category. We will see.
Cheers
Greg
| I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874 Lifetime Member
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Follow Up By: WA 1968 - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 22:00
Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 22:00
I reckon couple of cartons of Carona would be suitable payment for "hire"
FollowupID:
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Reply By: WA 1968 - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 22:03
Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 22:03
Greg,
I've never used anything more than a couple of snatch straps join together. I have purchased a wooden "rod" that links to snatch straps together so they don't permanently join together. Other alternative i have used when i didn't have this was to roll up a newspaper and use in similar vain.
Not sure when you are taking off but given you are in
Bunbury you can always pick it up from me before you go...or cheaper option...use the West Australian that you would have read on the plance up.
Cheers
Ash
AnswerID:
229110
Follow Up By: The Explorer - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 11:32
Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 11:32
Ash - Thanks for offer - I have a snatch strap that I will be taking along with 20m extension and 3 metre bridle...so should be right in that regard. I have some ready cut dowel suitable for the purpose you mention so I will use that. I may or may not pick up some additional gear in PH ... depending on anticipated site conditions I may just assess the situation and pass info on what is required (using advice provided here) to get it out to the next crew. I only have an hour or two to waste (including running around town) as we have to get to job and work afternoon/night - the next lot have all week!
Cheers
Greg
| I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874 Lifetime Member
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Reply By: V8Diesel - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 10:56
Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 10:56
If she's right down and dried out I'd drill and blast.
But in all seriousness, if it's gone hard hire a gennie and Kango from Kennards on the company coin. (The Mitsubishi ones work better but are hard to use on an angle) Also hire a couple of pointy tipped long handled shovels. Chuck in some bits of wood too. Remember, Kennards is your best friend.
If it's still soft buy an exhaust jack from ARB and grab a few bits of carpet. The Hedland 'K-Mart' aka the town rubbish tip has all kinds of good stuff.
No point popping a pooper valve in summer heat. Hire what you need and leave the dramatics up to the children or heroes. A few hunjy to save a 50 grand Cruiser is nothing.
AnswerID:
229212
Reply By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 10:12
Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 10:12
mmm ..well to finish the story off (sort of) - its still there. Arrived in PH but could not get the keys to the unit within which the keys to the car were located...so didnt even try. To make matters worse another cylone came through. The other guys who turned up got bogged trying to get near the previously bigged car. They got out with a few troubles. As far as I know it is still there. No idea how much it is costing but I am glad its not me paying the bills.
Pilbara is green as after all the rain its been getting. Great stuff.
Cheers
Greg
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