windows vista and all our maps

Submitted: Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 18:44
ThreadID: 43488 Views:1506 Replies:6 FollowUps:19
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evening all
has anybody tried the raster maps a lot of us have against the vista from windows
how does it go???????

STEVE
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Reply By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 19:41

Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 19:41
An operating system (Vista, XP, 2000, NT, Win98, UNIX, LINUX, MSDOS, CPM, FLEX etc) simply allows your computer to start up and run other programmes. Microsoft have not done well on operating systems over the years, given the budget and time they have had.

XP works fairly well - why anyone would consider changing (note: not "upgrading") to Microsoft Vista is beyond me. It will only, in the long term, require you to update hardware and software and cost you cash. I doubt you will receive anything worthwhile in return - will Microsoft Office run faster? Will Acrobat be better etc etc etc...?

Just stay with XP and toss the Vista disks.

Mike Harding
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Reply By: ExplorOz Team - David - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 20:35

Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 20:35
Steve,

Have copies of Vista (not loaded yet and in no real hurry, usually wait for SP1) here and been on a client site that had it running. From the outside I cannot see any reason why it would not support the products however I have had several warnings from my customers that had tried to Upgrade to Vista and the process was not good. My advice if you are keen is to ensure you have at least 1GB of ram and high end cpu, then backup everything and do a clean install and reformat the hard drive. This is the only process that does not create a system pause issue (the machine sleeps for a few mins every hour or so).

If you have purchased a new system with a pre-install then the above does not apply. Once I get brave and load it I will post results of the various software elements however using Vista the other day there is not really much different in terms of the backend of the OS just some updates to the front end - at least from my initial glance. I am sure I will get more involved as time goes on.

Hopefully some will have already tried it and will post the result.
David (DM) & Michelle (MM)
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 21:15

Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 21:15
Hi David,

As with all previous MS releases, upgrades suck. XP to Vista is no different - I did it because I had to to preserve operation of Quickbooks and MYSF, both accounting systems critical for me.

The XP installation was my original one - the first time I have run for years without constant re-installation, so it was pretty "dirty" from countless trials of different software packages.

A quick acquaintance with TweakVista and most problems gone (UAC turned off)
Some fairly bad software like Adobe stuff (acroreader 8, flash 8) has a lot of trouble installing properly as it doesn't like Vista or IE7 much. The horrors of Adobe reader 7 have not left me yet........

For running previous/ incompatible apps, just install MS Virtual PC 2007 and enjoy both worlds. As always, the new version needs twice the RAM of the outgoing. I have 2Gb and no issues.

there is quite a difference to the core - the security is a big change and the networking is also a big change - this causes all previous TCP/IP stuff to no longer work - eg IP printer ports are all wiped in the upgrade and need to be re-created.
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Reply By: Gob & Denny - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 20:36

Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 20:36
fine advice mike but i am in the market for a new latop and they all come with vista

steve
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 21:04

Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 21:04
In my view Mike is Microsoft bashing. Last year's product is good enough blah blah, windows 2000 was no better than W98 etc. Microsoft has contributed nothing to society blah blah. It's scaring Apple plenty, you just have to look at their negative TV advertising to realise that.

When you get your new laptop with Vista, just make sure you have the max RAM and you will enjoy the new system As with all previous new OS from Microsoft, it requires the latest hardware and the most RAM and the fastest graphics. No difference than before. You can still use AVGFree antivirus as it's Vista compatible.

If you need to run older software, Microsoft has catered for that with the free download "Microsoft Virtual PC 2007". I have used this and it's fantastic - it sets up a Virtual PC inside the Vista OS and you can install XP, W2k, Win98 onto it (you need a license though). It uses the Vista drivers to provide audio and graphics, and you can seamlessly copy files in and out.

With this you can run all your legacy apps which don't work on Vista, Discoveraus, Quickbooks, etc, etc.

I'm using Vista, and I like it, I'm not waiting for SP1, not doomsaying. Not using it in Corporate environment yet, but for Home or SOHO use it's fine.

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Follow Up By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 21:06

Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 21:06
Just bought a laptop for my son last week.

Want it with Vista sir ? No.

I want XP.

Oooh, you can have the system straight away with Vista.

I will wait for XP Pro. How long?

I will check and get back to you.

Phone call later - there is a delay because there are such a large number on back order, are you willing to wait 1 to 2 weeks? You can have Vista now?

I will wait -

arrived after 1 week.

Also, not all software will run on Vista.
Friend loaded Vista on his new fast dual core system.
Just sitting there idling, it was running at 13% CPU usage!
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 21:10

Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 21:10
I'm running XP on this box but it doesn't run my applications any better than 2000 or 98 did - an operating system is just for running applications - it's not an end in it's own right - after all... who wants a computer which can start up with a swish screen but not do a lot else...?

Perhaps you could explain why Microsoft Vista is so much better than other operating systems...?

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 21:25

Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 21:25
It's better than CPM and Linux because they can't run Office.

It's better than OS/2 and....

If you don't think XP is better than 98, why did you change?

Oldplodder, the fact that the OS is using some of the CPU to run itself is not anything to worry about. A CPU is not a tyre - it doesn't last longer if you use it sparingly !

My Vista CPU usage is currently 0%-5% I am running Norton Antivirus Corporate edition, Spyware Doctor, IE7, Outlook 2003, a PPTP VPN connection to a remote site, etc, in all 62 processes are running. I have Vista Ultimate with everything running but UAC turned off.

There must be something using the CPU but it's not Vista - probably the horrible Norton Internet Security stuff.

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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 06:45

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 06:45
So you can't explain then.

Actually Linux can run Office - although not Microsoft's version.

XP doesn't crash as often as 98 - that's why I changed.

Gerhardp1: I have been using computers and writing everything from embedded to applications since we had to stoke them up with coal in the mornings - I don't give a toss what OS I run all I want it to do is handle the housekeeping and not get in my way. When one considers the billions of dollars Microsoft have spent on OS development over many years one cannot conclude they have done a good job. It's an OS for Gawds sake, it's not rocket science!

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: sjp - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 06:53

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 06:53
bought a new laptop last month with vista ,worked fine for 8 days ,then the modem stopped working,sent away,recieved back yesterday with the h/drive and modem replaced and the cover scratched and marked as though its a year old and ofcourse nothing on the h/drive ,all my work gone including vista and the laptop looking as though they played shuffle board with it while waiting for parts
just waiting for them to wake up and get to work(sorry a bit off topic ,but iam going to see how good toshiba's warrenty is)
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Follow Up By: GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 08:48

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 08:48
Just heard that the section of NAB that I deal with are having all their computers ugraded to XP from 2000, naturally all the staff are very excited to have the latest!!!!

Soooooo, does this mean the NAB IT mob know something the rest of us don't?
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 10:06

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 10:06
I wouldn't think NAB would be doing a mass rollout company wide to replace 2k with xp as I don't think there would be a large cost/benefit. Maybe when they lease new machines they install XP. I rolled out XP at work and it was the best choice we made as it has reduced os/application issues to bugger all. But we waited until the first service pack. All servers are 2k3 and this has proven to be a very stable platform for SQL, Exchange and other apps.

Mike, love your analagies. 'Actually Linux can run Office - although not Microsoft's version. 'My commodore uses a water pump; not the one from a falcon though

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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 10:56

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 10:56
I'm not a big user of either Open Office or MS Office but can't OO read and write the MS file formats?

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 11:08

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 11:08
I must be old.
Like Mike I am hanging off on Vista.
Started on computers with CPM (pre DOS), and have done the DOS 2,3,4,5, 6 Windows 3.0,3.1, 95, 98, 2000, XP upgrades over the last 20 years, thats a new operating system every 2 years or so, just on PCs. Havn't counted the Unix boxes.
(OK, CPM was Z80, not PC)

I don't change cars that often!
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Follow Up By: Steve63 - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 12:28

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 12:28
If you have a new PC with duel core cpu, min 1Gb RAM and SATA2 hard drive Vista will let your apps run faster. Vista can use the dual cores independently (something UNIX was designed to do 20 years ago). In addition the SATA2 interface allows asynchronous disk access so larger reads and writes will be faster. If you have the very latest nVidia graphics card (8800 GTS/GTX) it will also look better and draw faster. Last time I looked the graphics card was $850. Having said that I would not upgrade from XP unless you have a very good reason. With Vista you must have Vista drivers for everything. No Vista driver no load. MS made this mistake with 2000 and XP and it produced no end of nightmares particularly with printers. Vista will be good but at the moment you need a $5k system to take advantage of it.

Steve
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 12:45

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 12:45
Hi Steve, Your statement that you need a $5000 system is wrong.

I am running Vista Ultimate with a Core 2 Duo 6600 processor, 2Gb RAM, SATA 2 hard drive in a Shuttle XPC, Radeon X1300 Graphics Card. This is not a low end spec but it's by no means a high end spec either, and it's less than $2000. Delete the Shuttle and use normal Motherboard and case and the price drops another $500, so you can get a good Vista performance for $1500. FAR short of your fanciful $5000. Would it run better on a $5000 machine - yes. Does Linux/Unix run better on a $5000 machine than a $1500 one? - Yes.

The problem as I see it with Microsoft bashers is they bend the facts to suit their beliefs. So what if Unix could multi task and multithread 20 years ago - there is still no viable expansion of that technological advantage to the everyday desktop. None of the Microsoft bashers have produced a viable competitive product, they just self-serve by bashing the only company that provides what users need/want to get business done.

It took Microsoft to make it available to everyday people.
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Follow Up By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:03

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:03
Will have to disagree with you on Microsoft, Gerhardp1.

It was actually IBM that developed the idea of a desktop PC, and the hardware, and gave Bill Gates the chance to write the operating system for it.

And IBM were willing to create a resonably open system in hardware and OS terms, that it took off and other hardware manufacturers joined the band wagon.

Something that Apple didn't do. Something that Linux is doing now.

I also remember DR DOS and other PC operating systems. Remember OS2 from IBM?

But Bill knows how to throw his weight around, and tie in software suppliers so that other OS don't get a chance. I have programmes that were ported to various OSs, but have stopped being done, because Bill bought them out or copied them and swamped the market.

Now I know you will say that is market forces at play. So be it. But I assume you drive a commodore, and it does everything you want fromn a car?
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Follow Up By: Steve63 - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 14:15

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 14:15
Gerhardp1,
I did't say it would not run on a cheaper system, it will, I'm sure it will run well. MS say them selves that the Vista features are only available if your system can support them. Currently that requires a very expensive graphics card and upmarket disk controlers. I am also not a MS basher. I believe that they provide one of the available options in the market place and use many of there products. On the other hand MS is far from perfect and some of there corperate activities leave a lot to be desired. So much so that the US government felt they needed to act. This time I believe that they delivered what looks to be a much improved product, though I think it's real power will not be released until hardware catches up and software writers take advantage of the newer features available in the OS. To purchase this type of system and the latest software will not leave much change from $5,000. Once you start putting RAID arrays in machines the cost tends to esculate.

I realise that UNIX is a specialist OS but for users of that system you need to prise there fingers off of it. It is not for the general user population but it is a very powerful and efficient OS. MS did not invent multi threading or multi processor concepts but have introduced them to there products. The point is that this stuff would have been nice in XP.

I think you will find that Apple beat MS on the usability front by some years. They had an effective though expensive system very early on. I have used Mac's before and they are a nice system also. Unlike you I am happy to use whatever tool is the most suitable UNIX, MS, Mac OS who cares. They all do the job they are designed to do. Once again, I'm not bashing MS, I am saying wait as I susspect that Vista will be much better on next years hardware.

Steve
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 15:34

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 15:34
Linux Eats Windows/vista/chicken noodle soup.

Steve.. Ask nicely and I'll give you a copy of XP ;) Install it yourself
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 18:41

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 18:41
I got a new laptp and Vista and it runs Mapsource (Garmin software), Ozi no worries (small error at end - no dramas running it though.

I agree upgrades are a worry but a newie like mine with fresh Vista - no probs - some teething probs that if you need help with I am available for a modest fee hahahah like U pay for the phone call
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Reply By: Gramps (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 21:12

Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 21:12
Steve,

If you're worried about Oziexplorer, just check out the Ozi website for information regarding the Ozi products and Vista.

Like you, I'll only bother with Vista when it's time for a new laptop. XP does everything I need and I have'nt heard of anything earth bleep tering that I MUST have to bother with it for now. I'll let all the thrillseekers discover the problems first. Like most Microsoft products, wait for SP1 or SP2 before risking my money. They're never that long after the initial bodgy release anyway LOLOL
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 18:42

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 18:42
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Reply By: mike w (WA) - Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 22:45

Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 at 22:45
My tip,

I would imagine that any new computer that runs vista, will probably come with office 2007. Word 2007 uses a new save format- .docx A pain in the proverbial, especially if you will be using that document on multiple computers with different versions of office. Im sure that this wont be a problem when office 2007 is 'common place', but until then, I would recommend you save all your documents created in word 07 in 'office 2003 format' i.e. .doc

The new layout is a bit weird, takes a while to get the hang of, infact too long, gone back to 2003
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Reply By: Member - Bentaxle - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 09:50

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 09:50
Steve
Go to www.nestmann.com and read what he has to say about MS Vista, he's pretty scathing of it
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