nissan patrol 3.0lt

Submitted: Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 15:47
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have read all the stories about engine failure has anyone got advise in regards to how best to stop piston burning or what is the best solution apart from selling the patrol.also are the later models any better
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Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 16:14

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 16:14
the later models are definitely better anything after 2003 is guaranteed to be OK by Nissan, good maintenance will go a long way in stopping burnout and good and regular oil changes
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Follow Up By: carlj - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 18:48

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 18:48
Hi Bonz do you know what differance in the 2000 and 2003 engines
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Reply By: blue one - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 17:31

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 17:31
Mate,
Was in the same position 2 years ago.

Only way out was to sell the 3 ltr and buy a 4.2.

3 ltr has too much history and when you are out and about the last thing you want is a nagging feeling that you are going to get stuck.

That's not fun!!
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Follow Up By: blue one - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 17:40

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 17:40
Forgot to mention the mongrel died in the Bendethera valley.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: carlj - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 18:42

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 18:42
blue one thanks, when you say buy a 4.2 did you buy a new patrol or do a transplant
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Follow Up By: blue one - Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 07:09

Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 07:09
Bought a new one
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Reply By: Dieseljuice - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 18:21

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 18:21
Why do you ask? Do you have a 3ltr Patrol? If so what year?I have a 2003 model, now just clocked up 85,000klms and hasnt missed a beat yet. I've just moved to Broome in the Kimberley and plan on some good travel to the gorges and up to the cape levique penninsula. So I plan on getting at least another 300,000klms before a rebuild or replace. Mine is also on Gas for the last 10,000klms so time will tell how it all goes.

Cheers

DJ
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Follow Up By: carlj - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 18:47

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 18:47
Hi Dieseljuice ,yes i have a 2000 3.0lt patrol and was thinking of going to Birdsville this year,but with all the bad feed back on the 3lt i am having second thoughts
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Follow Up By: awill4x4 - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 19:05

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 19:05
So Dieseljuice, you honestly expect to get another 300K out of the legendary ZD30 do you? I wish you luck because a lot of people, including me don't think it's going to happen. I hope you prove me wrong but I'll be surprised if you do.
Regards Andrew.
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Reply By: Motherhen - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 18:42

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 18:42
October 2002 onwards is the improved version. Look up the following for easy model identification -

www.lonards-automotives.com.au/patrol.html

Best security is to fit EGT and boost gauges and monitor them - cut back if either go too high. Plenty of posts and advice on these here on the forum.

Despite the number of failures, most of the don't. Just look at the numbers of them on the road.

Motherhen

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Follow Up By: carlj - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 19:10

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 19:10
thank you Motherhen I just looked up the lonards very helpful.
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 19:12

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 19:12
Carl, he is a bit down on the 3 litre in general, isn't he?
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Follow Up By: carlj - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 19:24

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 19:24
Motherhen,yes he is ,i must admit in the year i have owned my patrol all that has been replaced was the fan belt tensioner $400+ that is why they they spell NI$$AN. Apart from that it is a good 4wd
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Follow Up By: Outbacktourer - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 19:45

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 19:45
I think the change was earlier in 2002. I have a July '02 and there were Series III's on the road a couple of months before mine.
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 20:37

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 20:37
Hi Outbacktourer - it was late 2001 - around October.
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Follow Up By: Camper - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 19:27

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 19:27
Gday Motherhen,
I have a Built Feb 2002 Gu ZD30 series III and has been confirmed by Nissan Australia as being the "newer version"

Do you have an EGT and gauge fitted and what brand did you have installed?
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:23

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:23
Hi Camper - Ours is Jan 2002. We booked it into a Nissan dealer to get an transmission oil temp gauge fitted, and they suggested that the EGT was more important, hence arranged that also so i don't know what brand they used. I didn't realise until later that member Ian of Thermoguard makes the gauges, however his web site has given us the best information about what temperatures to expect - the Nissan dealers had no idea and were interested to hear our feedback.

As it turned out, they didn't fit the trans oil temp gauge as they said it has a 'light' - however we would have preferred a gauge.

We purchased the boost gauge from a Repco or similar shop, and our son fitted it.
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:29

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:29
Camper, PS: Chaz gave us the best info on fitting the boost gauge per his website - i wish I'd known about the pillar pod before we had the first gauge fitted.

members.bettanet.net.au/~conody/index.htm

Carlj - apologies for the hi-jack of your thread - it is a little off course from your question, which is a decision you will have to make, bearing in mind not all of the series II 'blow up'. If Murphy does prevail, you will need a good recovery plan. We travel with 'extended cover' from our RAC.
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Reply By: wilko65 - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 19:02

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 19:02
Carlj.
I have a 3/2003 3ltr manual. Bought new, serviced by Nissan. Have towed Kimberley Kamper from central qld to Darwin, Gulf etc, up the cape and numerous short trips for a wekend away here and there. It has 127000 klm on it now and has never had anything repaired at allunder warranty or otherwise. I did how ever replace the suspension when new and have fitted an EGT. I have never seen the EGT go higher than 600 deg celsius. I drive it as I have driven my last three 4wd's. It is a lease vehicle, so I probably tend to drive it harder than most would.
John.
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Follow Up By: carlj - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 19:18

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 19:18
Wilko65
the trouble with mine is that its 03/2000 model i have only owned it for 12 months and the only trip i have done is Brisbane to Dubbo and back at Christmas.what worries me is going out on outback tracks and it failing.
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Follow Up By: Outbacktourer - Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 19:53

Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 at 19:53
Carlj, I'd get a boost gauge if I were you, they are only a couple of hundred bucks and IMHO any issues will show up here first. An EGT is worthwhile too (I have one as well) but much bigger bucks. Cruise boost should be around 5-7PSI, 15 'ish under load and 17-20 if you really flatten it. If you don't spend too much time at high boost EGT's will take care of themselves.
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Reply By: Chaz - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 05:20

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 05:20
carlj
The majority of failures that I’ve heard of were due to overboosting. The early symptoms were leaking intercoolers and cooler hoses splitting or blowing off. If the hose blows off and you continue driving you could over fuel and melt pistons. This is also complicated by the ECU’s inability to control boost fast enough which results in boost spikes in excess of 25psi at times. The simple remedy is to lower your boost to a conservative 18psi and eliminate the spikes by fitting a manual boost control valve like the “Dawes” valve. Normal ball type boost valves don’t work on a Garrett VNT turbo because they control pressure and not vacuum. You can use a conventional boost controller by blocking off the vent hole. As advised, Boost and EGT gauges are invaluable to a 3.0Di.
There are many other relatively cheap modifications that you can do to improve the reliability of your 3.0Di Patrol.
Chaz
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 13:09

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 13:09
haven't read any posts for some time about hoses blowing off the intercooler. But you do hear about the odd intercooler leaking.

Leroy
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Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 15:28

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 15:28
Hoses blowing off are a symptom of overboost, most likely due to a dead MAF which in my case did not throw a code and resulted in the VNC allowing max boost all the time. My hose blew off. 2001 GU Wagon. PS I no longer have the wagon.
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Reply By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 06:25

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 06:25
I believe there are two common modes of failure, one resulting in cracked psitons, the other in cracked and melted pistons. The first mode involves overboosting due to MAF sensor failure.- Solution, fit a boost guage and carry a spare MAF.

The main mode of failure I believe is due to an engine management issue. In order to have high EGR flow when the car is a t highway cruise, it is necessary to lower boost. The ECU does this to ensure that when the EGR valve is wide open, intake ressure is lower than exhaust pressure.

Low boost at high fueling rate when at highway cruise, particularly when towing or when going uphill will raise exhaust gas temperatures. This constant exposure to high EGT at highway cruise or when towig, particularly if fueling is not correct will cause failure in my view. Solution, don;t tow and fit a boost guage and drive your highway cruise speed that maintains about 4 or 5 psi boost. Or fit a pyrometer and drive to maintain lower temperature.

There are some mods to the boost system discussed on patrol4x4 forum for those who are more adventurous.

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Follow Up By: Leroy - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 08:17

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 08:17
' In order to have high EGR flow when the car is a t highway cruise, it is necessary to lower boost'

I wouldn't expect high EGR flow at highway cruise. I would think the EGR valve is almost shut.

Leroy
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Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 08:39

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 08:39
Nope. Wide open
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 08:54

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 08:54
wide open are sure?
EGR valves are suposed to be open at low rpm/light load. EGR valves close on load and a 3.0l at highway speeds @ around 3000rpm I would consider under light load hence my original comment about the EGR valve being almost shut.

Leroy
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Follow Up By: Chaz - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 08:56

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 08:56
Leroy,
I have to agree with David on this one. To my knowledge EGR should be closed at idle and full throttle, but it should open the maximum under high speed low load conditions. As the load increases and boost rises, EGR drops off.
Regardless, EGR is bad news for a 3.0Di Patrol. It does more harm than good in my view and if (or when) it seizes open the problems start.
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Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 08:59

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 08:59
highway cruise is light load usually.
Towing is high load but generates high EGT
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 13:06

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 13:06
so what is the relationship between boost and EGR? Is it inversely proportional?

Leroy
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Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 15:25

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 15:25
I think you mean EGT. I am not sure of the exact relationship, no dout it depends on a number of factors. But one thing is certain. High EGT's have been experienced by some people at highway cruise, and they can be lowered by over 200 degrees by increasing boost to about 6 psi
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Follow Up By: Chaz - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 17:44

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 17:44
Leroy,
There is a relationship between boost and EGR. This is all mapped into the ECU and under certain conditions boost is lowered to allow for EGR flow. Consider two opposing equal pressures and there is little flow other than the engines requirements. In this case boost is lowered to allow more EGR flow and the result is high EGT’s. Raising boost will lower EGT’s. This is part and parcel of the emission control system and is also the reason for stepper motor controlled EGR valves and VNC Turbo’s. It’s the only way that both these systems can be controlled by the ECU and yes, at times it can be inversely proportional.

David,
Good luck with the new truck mate. You must have one of the last few.
Chaz
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 20:26

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 20:26
'This is all mapped into the ECU and under certain conditions boost is lowered to allow for EGR flow.'

and

' In this case boost is lowered to allow more EGR flow and the result is high EGT’s'

so if you block the EGR in the first scenario then it can't flow so what happens to the boost?

and if the boost decreases to allow more EGR flow and it's blocked what happens?

I just don't know what to do about blocking my EGR hence all the questions.

Leroy
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Follow Up By: Chaz - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:42

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:42
Hi Leroy,
You have put forward some good valid questions. I’ve seen too many people block their EGR off, but fail to do the necessary mods to the turbo control system and eventually fall into the overboosting scenario.

If the EGR is blocked, then boost should be reduced and this is very simple and easy to do. If you don’t have a boost gauge installed, then 1/3 to ½ a turn on the boost limiting screw should do the trick.
After doing that you’ll still notice (if you have a gauge) that boost will drop away, even if you apply more throttle, because the system is trying to supply EGR. This is why I have bypassed the VNC control solenoid valve and fitted a manual boost controller so that the turbo works more like a conventional one. ( http://users.bigpond.net.au/conody/Images/Boost Control.jpg )
This system allows me to adjust the maximum boost that I want to run and I can adjust the rate at which it spools up with the in dash needle valve boost controller. It eliminates those high boost spikes and boost reacts only to load and throttle input. It’s a far safer system, but doesn’t allow for EGR and emission control. I have also removed my cat converter and run a 2 ¾” dump and 3” flow through exhaust. With this setup, my EGT’s rarely exceed 300c post turbo.
Another thing to note is that my maximum power is made at 16psi of boost. Over 16psi it made no more power, so why does Nissan run them at over 20psi? I would suspect that it’s for emissions, because it wouldn’t be doing the motor any favors.

To answer your other question “if the boost decreases to allow more EGR flow and it's blocked what happens?” You simply loose power.
Chaz
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:58

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:58
Hi Chaz,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I'm sure many are reading with interest. I am impressed with the research and mods you have done as I have been reading with interest yhour other posts on this topic. Because I have just taken a 3yr Nissan factory warranty out.....what do I do? Maybe I need to address the situation in 3 yrs? But by then the intake will be clagged with soot/carbon etc!! Not sure I will be in a position to buy another new vehicle in 3 years but one never knows.

Leroy
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Follow Up By: Chaz - Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 01:02

Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 01:02
Leroy,
I understand why people take out extended warranties, particularly owners of 3.0Di Patrols. I guess once you make modifications outside of normal parameters, you become your own warranty. This is why I’m sometimes reluctant to advise people on some modifications. You do them at your own risk!
Having said that, I still believe that prevention is better that cure.
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