No wonder 4wders have a bad name & tracks get closed.

Submitted: Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 19:32

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allanmac856

Ran a club trip up through Toolangi/Narbethong last weekend. Due to the reasonable rain earlier in the week, expected heaps of vehicles in the area due to many who have a fixation with mud. Was not wrong, as heaps of vehicles were up there.

Anyway, coming back along Aeroplane Tk on Sunday was forced to stop as a couple of cars were stationary on the track. Noticed some mud flying everywhere & after cars moved to let us through, noticed the chewed up area where some of the cars had being doing 'donuts'. Same old culprits; young guys in lifted vehicles who believe this type of activity proves that they are 'real men'.

Would have loved to take a couple of rego numbers, but vehicles were completely covered in mud, couldnt see no.plates let alone get the numbers. Once again, idiots who do our cause no favours at all & unfortunately it is not the minority anymore, but the majority who are causing the negative press etc, especially in areas close to Melbourne. Problem is these 'wankers' are the 1st to complain when tracks get closed & blame everyone else but themselves.

I have reported vehicles to Parks & 4wd Vic before with only Parks following up on my complaint. As far as I'm concerned, 4wd Vic give lip service to this so called 'Tread Lightly' policy. Fact of the matter, tread lightly & 4wding dont really go hand in hand, but the association seems to have turned a blind eye to the increasing number of 4wders who have absolutely NO REGARD to preservation of our tracks.

I always have a laugh when I read on other forums how politicans are hypocrites etc, wanting to close our tracks etc etc. Unfortunately there are is an increasing number of 4wders who are no better.

Cheers

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Reply By: Robin - Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 21:02

Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 21:02

Hi Allan

You could have added a bit in there about , how the government failed to honour its legislation about setting aside area's for vehicles to play in and in 20 years has not declared a single acre so!

If you fail to give people a reasonable alternative for pursuits you may not agree with then this is what you breed !

Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Crackles - Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 21:32

Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 21:32

Not quite right Robin. 4 Wheel Drive Victoria in conjunction with Parks have been developing an area of bush for exclusive use of 4 wheel drives for some time now. Unfortunately the Greeny's have put a spanner in the works claiming the correct planning issues weren't followed further delaying the project. It's certainly not from lack of trying that it's not open but unfortunately these legal process's will need to be gone through. One spot that is open is the Portland dunes. Probably a couple of thousand acres of sand driving for buggies & 4 wheel drives.
I agree that alternative area's need to be set aside whether they be on public land or commercial properties to ease the damage to public tracks.
Cheers Craig.........

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Follow Up By: Robin - Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 22:26

Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 22:26

Hi Craig

I think thats my point - there is no area yet , despite our efforts.

Portland dunes is not readily acessible, apart from being hours away .
Its proved fairly difficult to organize although communications has got better in recent times , I know the organizer in our club gave up.

Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: allanmac856 - Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 22:31

Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 22:31

Robin, Victoria arguably has the best 4wding of any state in Australia. The reason we are losing tracks is because more & more 4wders are abusing the tracks, especially those close to Melbourne. IMO it seems that the majority of new 4wders have a fixation with mud & bog holes, meaning the likes of Toolangi/Mt Dissapointment/Gembrook are the places to venture to. You only have to look at any 4wd forum & at the the 1st bit of rain, people are arranging trips to these areas to 'have some fun'. Yes, maybe it is time to look at a private facility to cater for those who find that type of 4wding stimulating, ego boosting etc, because if it continues down its current path, more & more tracks will be closed. Dont blame the Govt or the Greenies, they havent destroyed these tracks.

To prove my point, you just have look at the High Country. Fantastic huge area, has sensible seasonal closures & caters for what some might say the 'old school' 4wders, who like to tour through some wonderful country with the added bonus of some excellent/challenging 4wding. Yes, we do get the odd idiot up there as well, but nothing like what you see in the areas I have mentioned.

Anyway, each is entitled to their own opinion, but I hope I never have to say; "I told you so", when more & more tracks get closed because of idiotic behaviour.

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Follow Up By: Robin - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2007 at 07:59

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2007 at 07:59

Hi Allan

I looked almost with shame at the heaviness of the construction of the new gates across the Kalatha creek area recently.

But other people have other interests and I try not to be to judgemental - I sat recently with a senior ranger for an hour in the bush recently , trying to get at what can be done to improve things, he seemed to be singularly focussed on damage that amounted to a few acres in 100,000 acres and I also tried to understand why they just couldn't make a few areas available for people to play.

IMHO there was no valid scientific reason and it could be logically argued that his dishwasher and clothes dryer have more enviromental impact however they don't have the same imagery.

Personnally I couldn't report anyone unless it was very gross but I could if they were behaving that way and there was an area set aside for their play within a reasonable driving distance.

Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Robert - Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 11:36

Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 11:36

Hi Robin,

Are you serious?
Because you say they don't have an area set aside to destroy tracks then that makes it okay.
They don't have areas set aside to shoot protected wildlife either, does that therefore excuse anyone for shooting protected wildlife?.

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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 21:48

Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 21:48

Allan not quite sure what you expect 4wd Vic to do about the matter??
They are not the Police or Parks and the Tread Lightly is a code of conduct which "Asks" responsible 4w drivers to comply with.

Its no different to the road rules saying you should not speed or do donuts in the street etc, do you think 4wd Vic should Police the streets also?

Maybe you should think about this a bit more before pointing the finger.

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Follow Up By: allanmac856 - Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 23:14

Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 23:14

John, I understand where you are coming from but IMO, not saying I'm right or wrong, 4wd Vic have never taken the 'bull by the horns' & highlighted the inappropriate activities of many 4wders. They have the perfect resources, whether it be their website or the weekly 4wd radio show, but for some reason they prefer to blame the 'govt/greens' for track closures etc. They have to look outside the circle, as it seems to me their main focus/priority is the 4wd clubs, where the majority of clubs abide by the so called 'tread lightly' principles. They need to get the message through to the big number of individual 4wders who have no intention of joining a club & IMO are not doing this. Why cant they post a message or two on the various 4wd forums & maybe enlighten those who frequent those forums what is acceptable. unacceptable behaviour on our tracks. I have wasted my breath trying to get through to some.

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Follow Up By: HowdyDoody - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2007 at 13:21

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2007 at 13:21

Just a thought. If most of these tracks/roads are considered 'formed roads' that require vehicles to be registered in order to travel on them, then is it possible to report them to the anit-hoon line that we now have?

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Follow Up By: Ken - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2007 at 20:16

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2007 at 20:16

Allan, 4WD Vic's focus/priority on clubs is really quite simple to understand if you took time to realize that they are the Victorian peak body representing 4WD club's. As others point out they are not the police and have no control over the lunatics they behave irresponsibly at places like Narbethong and Gembrook. They represent responsible behaviour in clubs and although solidly opposed to the behaviour of the idiots that think the bush is there simply to provide a challenge, they have no ability to control them. For your information they regularly highlight inappropriate behaviour to Parks & DSE. Getting something done about it is quite another story and rather than bagging them you may care to give some thought as to how YOU could do something to find a solution. As for posting messages you only need to look here to see the way anyone promoting responsible behaviour or criticising those that abuse the privilege of ready access to the bush are treated and they futility of this approach.
As for providing a bit of land where this sort of behaviour can be allowed to take place don't you think it is a bit rich seeking this sort of opportunity from bodies created soley to protect the bush.
Ken

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Reply By: lifeisgood - Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 21:52

Reply By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 03, 2007 at 22:47

Reply By: furph - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2007 at 08:07

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2007 at 08:07

Last October wife and I were travelling home and decided to go north via Healesville, Kinglake and on.
At the top of the range out of Healesville we pulled into the rest area then decided to camp the night. (pop top van) did a scout around, picked the best spot on the area, which makes a sort of round about, and got set up.
Then from a bush track which runs off east? and without warning 2 4wds hurtled into the area, round the "course" a couple of times then pulled up. I went over to the vehicles asking "whats the go here" Reply was they were waiting for a couple of mates getting themselves out of a bog. With that we heard a roaring and the next thing there were 8 bloody 4wd's hurtling around us. I told the wife to get the camera, this was a foto opportunity not to be missed.
Suspecting what might happen, I pulled the old "crowd pleaser" out and moved behind the van. The first clown who saw the camera skidded to a halt with "what the F do you think you are doing?" I stepped out and asked the question back and let one go into the sky.
There was no argument with that, and we witnessed the most rapid departure down the hill you could imagine. We still have the pics and those hoons are probably still hoons.
furph

AnswerID: 231586

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2007 at 16:35

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2007 at 16:35

You are probably lucky you didn't end up in gaol!

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Follow Up By: furph - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2007 at 17:09

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2007 at 17:09

Your probably right Shaker, but I had photos of them, they didnt have one of me.
cheers, furph

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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2007 at 17:52

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2007 at 17:52

Good on yer furph. If you ever need support (it doesn't sound like you will :) just let me know.

If you don't stand up for yourself... sure as hell no one else will.

Mike Harding

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Follow Up By: Graham56 - Wednesday, Apr 04, 2007 at 22:47

Wednesday, Apr 04, 2007 at 22:47

Furph,
I think you had it out allright and I think you still have it out.
( I pulled the old "crowd pleaser" out and moved behind the van.)
I stepped out and asked the question back and let one go into the sky.
If what you post is to be believed you're a bigger problem in the bush than anyone.

Graham

FollowupID: 492691

Follow Up By: Andrew Main - Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 07:20

Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 07:20

Graham56:

And you intend to do what when a dozen 30 year old yobs decide to have a go at you and your wife/partner/offspring? Lecture them on the folly of their ways? Call the police? (probably haven't got any coverage, they won't give you time and by the time poilce arrive it will be far too late). Offer them chocolate?

Or possibly not have taken the photos in the first place, allow them to continue their behaviour and later reporting them to police. Who of course you have great faith will actually bother to do anything and your word will stand up against 10 of them???

Good on yer furph, sometimes you have to look after yourself, the state won't always hold your hand.

Andrew

FollowupID: 492728

Follow Up By: furph - Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 07:53

Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 07:53

Graham. I dont know if you are familiar with that spot, I am not, its the first time I have been through that way for nearly 40yrs.

But I am sure others on here would know it, a parking area right at the top of the range, just off the main road opposite the toilets and with an "oval" road area behind it where we camped. (actually on the edge of the gravel, it was raining.

So if that was you, with 8 4wd's playing speedway around the circuit, spraying gravel about, with every possibility your rig is going to be clobbered by one of these clowns, how do you view your options?

Stand in the middle of the road to stop them? Grin and put up with it? Call the Healesville police? (getting the number would be the first trick)

No. I told my wife to take photo's, and me trying to predict what COULD happen got the gun out. And as it turned out their attitude was just as I predicted. I have been around long enough to have a fair idea about human nature and have also seen the result of a mob turning on someone.

This post was about the problems caused by people who refuse to respect the bush and what we have. When these same people show me similar disrespect I am going to look out for myself, I am there, the authorities who protect society are not.

Would enjoy meeting you in the bush Graham, but if you have the same attitude as those hoons you may well wish we hadn't.
furph

FollowupID: 492733

Follow Up By: Crackles - Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 16:48

Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 16:48

Admire your balls Furph and as they say 'alls well that ends well'. Did "trying to predict what COULD happen" include the possibility the yahoo's may have pulled out their guns??? ;-)
Cheers Craig........

FollowupID: 492806

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 17:02

Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 17:02

It's not really like that Craig. If someone, who you know you have pi$$ed off waves a firearm at you then, unless you have watched too many versions of "Gun fight at the OK coral" and are stupid - you walk (ideally run) away. If you don't you'll probably get shot. It's a tough world out there away from the protection of "The Authorities" - although, personally, I believe we have to protect ourselves. There are some _BAD_ people around, sometimes.

Mike Harding

FollowupID: 492807