For all you Mechanics
Submitted: Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 15:29
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44023
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zook
Was driving an FJ40 (scrub basher) but there is an interesting problem to get it started.
It doesn't get started to often (a couple of time a week probably) - all orginal engine - basically the problem is that to start it first time I need to pour fuel down the hole in the top of the engine (i don't know what it's called) replace the black press cap put the bonnet down, then pump the pedal a couple of times and it starts easy.
If I don't pour the fuel down then the engine doesn't even turn - it just sounds like the battery is going flat (which it would be). After the car has been driven for a while it is fine and starts with a turn of the key.
My question is - what is the problem? it can't be the fuel pump because once its going the car runs fine, any suggestions?
zook
Reply By: Russel & Mary - Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 15:44
Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 15:44
Zook, it's a little bit hard to diagnose with the info you have supplied. As a guess it could be your old starter motor is in need of an overhaul. When the engine is cold, the starter motor may be having trouble producing enough power but when it's been running for a while and is warm, it's easier to crank over and the fuel is likely to burn better resulting in quicker starting. Rus.
AnswerID:
231834
Follow Up By: zook - Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 15:58
Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 15:58
Rus,
I am fairly confident it's not the starter motor (don't ask me why) but it seems to have more do to with the cars not drawing fuel into the engine when it hasn't been started for a while (even after you pump the pedal a few times).
The other thing that may be relevant is, when it is first started after adding the fuel into the top of the ?carby? (the engine bit i described at the beginning), the engine needs to be revved a fair bit to get it going and won't sit at idle speed. However, once the engine has been running (even if just for 10 mins at 2-3.5K revs) it will idle fine.
These old cars a fairly indestructible but they are a bit temperamental so thanks for your help!
liam
FollowupID:
492801
Reply By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 15:59
Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 15:59
And maybe the fuel is being lost from the float bowl?
Takes bit for the pump to refill it?
AnswerID:
231839
Follow Up By: Member - Matt Mu (Perth-WA) - Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 17:40
Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 17:40
Im with you Plodder...I would suggest its the fuel evaporating out of the float bowl and with a bit of fuel in the intake.....gets its running long enought to fill it again.
Plus once the 40 has been running for awhile the battery is fully recharged and everything is loose and lubricated!! This would also help with the restarts after the initial.
My2c
Matt.
FollowupID:
492814
Reply By: pauljohnston - Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 16:14
Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 16:14
I had a Gemini once that was a bit similar, however my car would turn over, it just wouldn't start unless I poured a bit of fuel down the carby. In my case it was the pump. The spring on the one way valve that stopped fuel going back down the fuel line was broken, so that valve didn't shut properly allowing fuel to drain back when the engine wasn't operating. (the pump was mechanical as I'm assuming yours is). When the engine was running the pump was operating fast enough to get fuel through even though the valve was faulty. Eventually the spring gave way completely and the car wouldn't start no matter how much fuel I poured down the carby. (This was on
the entrance to the freeway at Tallamerine airport, great place and a long way from
home!). I tried all sorts trying to figure out what was going on. Eventually pulled the pump apart and found out what was happening. I stuffed a bit of foam from a window washer sponge (from the petrol station) behind the plate in the valve so it would close, put it back together, and it was still running like that years later when I got rid of the car.
Good luck,
PJ.
AnswerID:
231842
Reply By: MintabiePete - Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 16:25
Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 16:25
It could be the accelerator pump plunger in your carbie playing up and not delivering the spurt of fuel at start up :)
AnswerID:
231843
Follow Up By: Dave198 - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 19:51
Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 19:51
Pete, I am going to Ginko as
well.
Drop us an email if you want.
bharrie at ozemail dot com dot au
Dave
FollowupID:
495234
Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 19:48
Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 19:48
I think Mintabiepete has got it. To
test the accelerator pump in the carby, get someone to pump the accelerator while you look into the carby to see whether any fuel squirts in. These old 40series don't tolerate the unleaded fuel, and the carbies stuff up.
If the engine is not turning over, its a separate problem - either battery or corroded terminals or bad earth lead, starter motor solenoid etc etc.
All sounds lie a bit of maintenance is required.
AnswerID:
231876
Reply By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 19:54
Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 19:54
Hi Zook,
I have a similar response to pervious replys
The 2F has a mechanical fuel pump at the bottom of the motor (drivers side) the carby at the top of the motor(passenger side)
If the pump is getting tired it will not stop the fuel from bleeding back from the carby (it is down
hill)but still have enough to supply fuel to run happily.
Like wise for the carby,it needs to have the ability to "store" fuel so that when you press the accelartor fuel gets draw in,buy you tipping fuel directly down carby,you are giving the motor something to run on until it pumps up the fuel by its self, the carby should not drain either,its telling you it's time for a bit of attention.
work out whats cheaper to fix/replace,carby or fuel pump,maybe both.I duobt that the probs you have described are at all, electrically related,only fuel.
Shane
AnswerID:
231879
Follow Up By: Angler - Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 21:20
Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 21:20
Change the pump from a mechanical type to an electric one and your problems will be over.
Worked for me.
Pooley
FollowupID:
492841
Follow Up By: Stu050 - Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 21:41
Thursday, Apr 05, 2007 at 21:41
I'm with Angler, you don't even have to remove the mechanical pump, just put the electric one in the line somewhere. Preferably near the tank.
It will "blow through" the mechanical pump no worries.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Russel & Mary - Friday, Apr 06, 2007 at 08:03
Friday, Apr 06, 2007 at 08:03
I'm with you guys now on this. Seems like a fuel problem, and I agree the pump or accelerator pump in the carby. The accelerator pump as described is the easiest to
check, then look at putting new valves in the mechanical lift pump or cut the fuel line somewhere and install a $30 electric pump. Rus.
FollowupID:
492880
Reply By: zook - Friday, Apr 06, 2007 at 22:06
Friday, Apr 06, 2007 at 22:06
Thanks for the replies everyone,
I am going to have a look at the 2 solutions that seem to make the most sense. The float bowl answer seems to be the easiest and i will just continue adding fuel to the carby to get it started (will carry a jerry in the car).
I also think that the plunger is not working properly because not much fuel comes in when it hasn't been driven for a while but it works fine once everything is going (probably because there is already fuel in the carby?). I think i might put a $30 electrical pump in so that way all should be solved.
I agree that it is very unlikely to be an electrical problem. just fuel.
once again, thanks for the replies.
zook
AnswerID:
232068