bush welding

Submitted: Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 16:20
ThreadID: 44269 Views:3549 Replies:9 FollowUps:14
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We are going on trip through great central road to Alice in July. Towing cavalier camper with 5 leaf slipper springs. My question is with welding repairs on the go. Could this be done simply with jumper leads and welding stick? Is it any more complicated than that? Advice appreciated.
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Reply By: Member - Alastair D (NSW) - Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 16:37

Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 16:37
You need 2 batteries to give sufficient voltage and some way of protecting your eyes from the light which will do damage - sun glasses are not enough. If you just take a piece of glass from a welding mask you can usually rig up some holder like a piece of cardboard. Jumper leads will work though a proper hand tool is better. A leather glove is always useful to have welding, winching, hot exhaust, pulling grass out from under a hot engine etc.

If you have never done welding before practice at home and get tips from someone who can. Fairly easy when you get the knack.

alastair
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 16:54

Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 16:54
mikeyprop3
These two web sites will give you all the info needed

Doug

www.northrichmond.ws/page4.html

Site Link
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Follow Up By: howie - Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 17:55

Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 17:55
hi doug, i have never welded anything in my life and was copying some of the info from your 2 sites and crazy dog's.(it's the boy scout in me)
noticed the north richmond picture had the -ve attached to the job.
both others had the +ve
i assume the job going to +ve is correct.
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 18:19

Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 18:19
howie
Yeh mate it's simple logic really, if you hook batteries up as illustrated , I see in the link Crazy put on they have 3 batteries , you could have 6 so long as they are hooked up +...B...#----------+...B....#----------+...B....# like that , for 3 batteries but what you need is 1 or 2 battery cables to connect them , little short thick ones and a good set of heavy duty jump leads, not those piddling chinese crap from Kmart


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Follow Up By: howie - Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 18:34

Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 18:34
sorry doug, my point was that the above picture has the -ve to the job.
the other "experts" reckoned the +ve should go to the job in D.C. welding.
cheers
howie
(i'm not arcing up, ha hah) sorry, couldn't resist
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 19:07

Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 19:07
Howie
Your stuffin me up with all the +s and vs and -s and es what I see is Earth connects to the object one is going to weld, and positive is welding rod


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Follow Up By: howie - Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 19:34

Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 19:34
quote from bushwelding tips from your other link says-
"connect the positive terminal of battery #1 to an earth on your vehicle (or part to be welded), and the last jumper lead connects the negative terminal of battery #3 to the handle of your vice grips"

quote from crazy dog's link (landcruiser site) says-
"You will notice that the earth to the work is positive. This is the norm in DC welding".
http://www.lcool.org/technical/80_series/bat_weld/weld1.JPG

the picture you posted has the negative going to the job.(Nth Richmond site)
sorry to be a pain, but i want to get it right if i ever have to resort to welding.
another question is - does it matter that much?
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 19:44

Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 19:44
HOWIE
Mate I dunno, I like you ha=ve never tried it but if I did that's how I would hook up '
Now will you please stand by the wall ....NO.....OVER there ---------->


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Follow Up By: howie - Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 19:59

Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 19:59
it's all too hard is'nt it.
anyway, it's beer o'clock now.
i will raise the subject tomorrow if nobody else has a positive(or negative) answer tonight.
cheers howie
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 20:01

Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 20:01
OK Thanks Howie, have 2 for me ,,oh and the soldier missed ya
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Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 16:55

Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 16:55
If you can strike a ark and run a weld you should not have too much problem using two batteries for the power.

To get started two heavy duty batteries (start batteries not deep cycle), need to be removed from the vehicle. It is safer to have the batteries out of the vehicles and close to what has to be fixed.

A heavy cable is attached to the positive of one battery and to the negative of the second battery. Heavy cables, jumper leads are alright, are attached to the remaining post on the batteries. The positive lead goes to the work piece and the negative lead has the welding rod.

Gloves should be worn and a face shield. The standard face shield is too big to pack so I use a paper plate with section cut out to fit the darken glass. The glass is taped into place and paper plate held in front of your eyes.

2mm rods are good but I don't go any bigger than 3mm rods plus I have off cuts of steel that I can use to patch or repair broken things. I once rebuilt a front spring hanger for a 75 series on top of Mt Blue Rag using steel off cuts that I had.

The clamps on the end of the jumper leads are alright but I have leads that have battery clamps on the end just like what is used on battery leads. They make a better connection to the battery.

Bush welding is no more complicated than that, but try it at home before you leave.

Wayne
AnswerID: 233169

Reply By: Member - Crazy Dog (QLD) - Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 17:02

Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 17:02
Check this link as well - shows the real mcCoy...
check this out

Grrr!!!

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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 19:16

Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 19:16
While it depends on what you're welding, I've found in limited experience welding a trailer axle and a suspension control arm that three batteries works better than 2. We take some leads made up for the job, use a jumper lead for the earth, and use an arc welding handpiece and 2.5mm rods. I take a normal welding facemask. With 24volts, you may not have enough. With 36 volts, you can weld (and blow holes in) anything. Some fencing wire or a longer thinner wire may help to limit current.
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Follow Up By: dan-the-man - Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 19:31

Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 19:31
most welding machines (from caddie welder to 'tractor packs' ) run on 24 -28 volts.
a piece of wire will do the job, sort of. a bleep ty weld is usually due to hydrogen or oxygen or both ,( water) reacting with the hot metal and causing bubbles or porosity. so when in the bush anything to keep out the gasses while welding will do . you could wrap some tape, or tightly wrap paper around the electrode. it doesnt have to be super duper but anything to help make it stronger.
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Reply By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 19:19

Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 19:19
Two batteries will work but three batteries is heaps better.

Keep your welding rods very dry, do not let them absorb moisture by storing in a damp place. If you can leave the rods in the sun for a while before use that would be good - it does make a difference.

If you want to travel prepared for everything then make a couple of small link cables to join the batteries together. As already mentioned, genuine battery terminal connectors are best for the battery links and you can use jumper leads for the welding cables.

AnswerID: 233183

Reply By: Member - outback2 (WA) - Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 21:29

Friday, Apr 13, 2007 at 21:29
re bush welding...been there and done that...we broke both the main leaf springs on the camper trailer and let the axle out the back of it 2 years ago in Rudall River...always carried the necessary eqipment for years and that was the first time I have had to use it....very easy welding with two batteries...might want three for thicker metal...take the batteries out of the vehicle regardless of whether or not the repair job is the vehicle or not

Reason for that rule is that the vehicles are negative earth and for DC welding and smooth easy arc you want earth positive...batteries out simply ensure that there is no chance of anything stuffing up

carry the dark welding glass wrapped in toilet paper in a tin...use a cereal packet as a mask and tape the glass in after cutting a hole...perfect mask

suggest you carry some 2.5mm Weldall type rods as these will literally weld all although GP will work

our jumper leads are actually home made from welding lead size cable...no voltage drop at all welding or jump starting...use them to join the batteries in series and just carry one special lead with handpiece attached and the other end compatible with the battery terminal.

PS have just purchased an American 24 V mig welding handpiece..hopefully wont need it..I am told it can give 40mins welding out of 2 batteries in series...we will see

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Follow Up By: Hairy - Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 12:32

Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 12:32
Gday Outback2,
All good advice! One more pointer could be leave your electrodes sitting on your hot manifold for a while before using to make sure they are dry, and if your welding hardened steel like springs, or cast, let the weld cool as slow as possible ( cover the welded area in warm sand held in a beer carton or something).
Your exactly right...DC welding is reverse polarity....positve earth/groung.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 13:16

Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 13:16
Ooopps GROUND
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Follow Up By: Member - outback2 (WA) - Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 14:45

Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 14:45
Gidday Hairy

Thanks for that yes I agree totally with you but felt like I was writing a novel and so stopped short of heaps of details...the other thing I didnt mention is that I have my electrodes individually wrapped in paper towelling and then tightlly bound in a cluster so as they dont have the coating flux shaken and rubbed off them...it will happen !

cheers also
Life is a journey, it is not how we fall down, it is how we get up.
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 15:00

Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 15:00
Yeh mate,
I usually lay a rag out, put on one electrode and roll it, drop on another and roll and so on. Wrap it up tight with insulating tape and stuff it in a bit of 50mm PVC with end caps. Lasts for years.
Cheers
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Reply By: revhead307 - Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 14:19

Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 14:19
Awesome reading, I have some heavy cable which I might make up into a welding rig.

Luckily I already have a 24v import, with a 3rd aux battery...so plenty of potential power. Methinks i'd better try it in the backyard first tho.

Question - Is there any potential damage to the batteries from short spurts of welding? Ie is it an emergency procedure only or can it be used when needed without unnecessary battery harm.

Regards

Jeff
AnswerID: 233334

Reply By: Member - Fizz (NSW) - Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 15:10

Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 15:10
I never knew all this was possible!! Plenty of experience with an ordinary stick welder, but this is great news for me. Thanks to all who have posted.

Does anyone know whether sealed lead acid batteries (AGM) can be used? Would I set off an Australia-wide terrorism alert if I tried to weld with these?

AnswerID: 233343

Follow Up By: mikeyprop3 - Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 21:26

Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 21:26
Many thanks to all who posted replies! All good, positive advice. May take me a while to digest all the info though. My policy of asking those who know has paid dividends. I do have 100 A/H AGM 2nd battery and would be interested to see any response to FIZZ's question.
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