DIY Cryovac Systems

Submitted: Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 10:51
ThreadID: 44446 Views:34218 Replies:11 FollowUps:24
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What home user cryovac systems are available? Which is best? Where can I buy one? Are the results as good as the local butchers?
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Reply By: Jimbo Vic - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 11:08

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 11:08
Don't confuse cryvac and vacuum sealing. The $200 units at the shops are vacumm sealing machines. They do extend the life of food but do not go through the cryvac process which extends it much longer.

It is also worth asking your butcher if they actually cryvac or just vacuum seal.

Cheers,

Jim.
AnswerID: 234186

Follow Up By: Smudger - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 11:20

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 11:20
Jim,
In you experience are the home vacuum seal systems as effective as the butcher's cryovac?
With DIY we can save heaps on meat from supermarkets, and take the system on the track. But, there's not much point if it doesn't do the job.
Greg
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Follow Up By: Jimbo Vic - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:01

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:01
Don't get me wrong, they do increase shelf life by a significant amount. It's just that genuine cryvaccing can keep whole pieces of meat (say a whole Rump) for up to 4 months if kept properly refrigerated.

You can buy whole Rumps and Scotch Fillets from Bi Lo for less than $10/kg on special. I do this and bung 'em in the beer fridge and let them age for a month or more and the meat is superb.

Regards,

Jim.
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Follow Up By: Smudger - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:05

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:05
Are you saying that BiLo cryovac/cryvac (you can correct my spelling if you like) their meat?
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Follow Up By: pepper2 - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:14

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:14
Jimbo do you vacum pac or cryovac your meat to age in the beer fridge ?????
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Follow Up By: Jimbo Vic - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:32

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:32
Smudger,

Yes, Bi Lo do sell certain whole cuts Scotch Fillet, Rump and Porterhouse cryvac/cryovac (buggered if I know which is right LOL) packed at times. They get it packed and open and cut it as I undestand. talk to someone in the meat dept and ask them to keep some whole cuts aside for you.

Peeper,

No I don't vacumm pack my own, I buy it cryvacced.

Jim.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 16:53

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 16:53
Cryovac
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 17:14

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 17:14
Ok, I'll bite ..... What is the difference?
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 09:22

Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 09:22
Cryovacced meat and suction packed are one and the same. Cryovac is the brand name of the often used comercial machines and hence to suction pack meat is often referred to as cryovac it much the same as many pressure washers are referred to as a gurney and pens are called Biros etc etc.
Many supermarkets if not all now get there meat exclusivly vaccume packed only (beef that is) so to get a whole rump just aske them for one and they will duck into the fridge and get a whole vac pacced rump out for you
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 10:28

Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 10:28
Thanks Davoe, that is why I asked.
I had done a search of the Cryovac website & there was absolutely no reference to heat being used in their process.
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Follow Up By: ross - Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 11:45

Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 11:45
Shaker ,there are 2 types of bags sold for vacuum packaging of meat.
One is a thicker type that is left as it is once the air has been removed and sealed.
The other is a bag that is quickly dipped in water at about 90c to shrink and tighten the bag after the air has been removed.
The cost is only 10 cents difference.
Obviously for home use the thicker bag is better. I just thought I would mention as the bag that is supposed to be heat shrunk,will not seal as long if it is not dipped.

Butchers and meat plants are allowed to store meat in sealed bags for 1 month if they keep it at 1c. The lifespan drops correspondingly for each rise of 1 degree of temp.
It will last longer than a month if stored at 1c though

If meat comes out of bag and smells off ,the standard test is to let it sit for 10 minutes .
If the odour disappears it was just methane gas and is safe to eat.
If it doesnt bacteria has taken over.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 15:55

Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 15:55
Shaker it is a common misconseption that the bags are heated afterwards to extend shelf life. While this would work as sufficient heating of the bag would reduce the existing surface bacteria load (where most of the bacteria present on meat is present) It would not be possible to to heat the bag to such an extent to significantly lower bacterial load without de naturing surface protein (cooking in otherwords) This would have an adverse efect in the consumer appeal of the product . And trust me Mrs joe averadge will not touch anything that doesnt look quite right to them.
It would also be highly dangerous as partial cooking and anaerobic storage of meat has the ecffect of killing spoilage bacteria allowing spore forming nasties uneffected by incorrect heat treatment (the worst being botulism) to be present undetected by our normal methods (ie that looks off I wont eat it)
This is why the heat treatment of canned products is based around the total destruction of Botulism - not just cooking the product
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Reply By: Teabag (Queanbeyan) - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 11:09

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 11:09
Smudger,

Good question we are also looking at purchasing one....Was told the Danos Direct is a pretty good unit.....Interested to hear people views also......
AnswerID: 234187

Follow Up By: Smudger - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:30

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:30
What size are the Sunbeam bags? Can you use eny brand bags, or do you need to buy Sunbeams?
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Follow Up By: howie - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 19:30

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 19:30
sunbeam have some pre-cut sizes but they also sell a continuous roll so you can make whatever size you want.
you can use any bags so long as they are built for the job.
also reseal things like pizza cheese in the bag it comes in.
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Reply By: Squizzy - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 11:38

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 11:38
The wife and I have been using a Sunbeam brand vacuum sealer for some time now, and we have been very happy with the results so far.

We understand that it is only a vacuum sealer, and that does not worry us too greatly, as we always consume our meats and goods within a couple of weeks anyway.

We are just happy to have the fridge clean and not concern ourselves with the meat juices that can be a problem in fridges.

Hope this heps,

Geoff.
AnswerID: 234192

Follow Up By: Member - Ed. C. (QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 11:48

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 11:48
Yep, What he said :))
Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"

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Follow Up By: landseka - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:22

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:22
Ditto on what he said too :D
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Follow Up By: Member - Tim - Stratford (VIC) - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 18:37

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 18:37
Same here - I agree with the above - Also, you can fit a lot more meat into a fridge when vacuum sealed instead of carting meat in the plastic trays. Damned good for precut veggies and cheeses/nibbles.

More meat, no mess - has to be good!

Ours is an ebay one, approx $120 with heaps of bags and it will use any type of vacuum bag (so it says, haven't tested this).
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Follow Up By: Juzzy - Thursday, Apr 19, 2007 at 16:25

Thursday, Apr 19, 2007 at 16:25
Can anyone tell me how long you can keep the food when it is vacuum packed vs cryovacked?

How do you know when you have kept it too long if you can't smell it due to the packaging? ie other than opening it, how do you know if it has gone off?

Does this differ with different cuts of meat? I know you aren't meant to use liquids (ie stews), but what about say Sausages vs Steak?

I will be using an Engel 40L fridge with temperature set to 4 degrees C on our upcoming trip.

Thanks
Juzzy
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Apr 19, 2007 at 16:37

Thursday, Apr 19, 2007 at 16:37
Juzzy, I am yet to be convinced of the difference between Cryovac & vacuum packaging.

Anyway, you should get about 6 weeks with red meat without a bone, 2 weeks for chicken fillets, you can do stews & pasta dishes etc, but bear in mind if they contain onion you will only get a little over a week. Sausages are so full of preservatives anyway, I reckon 6 weeks easy.

We use a Foodsaver brand & couldn't be happier. ( I believe Sunbeam have put their name on the same machines.)

I have also pre grease packed wheel bearings, both for the vehicle & camper trailer & vacuum packed them.
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Follow Up By: Squizzy - Friday, Apr 20, 2007 at 10:46

Friday, Apr 20, 2007 at 10:46
Juzzy,

You can seal stews, etc. The only thing is you need to freeze them for a while first to prevent the liquids from being sucked into the vacuum sealing machine.

We seal those sort of things frequently.

Geoff.
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Reply By: Middle Jeff - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:42

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:42
Hi I have a Danos Direct and it works great so does the Sunbeam, the only difference between vacuum and cryovac is the name, cryovac is the name of the plastic manufacturer, it is like saying I will Hoover the carpet instead of vacuuming it.

Some places do gas before they vacuum but this is pretty rare, you can also use oxygen scavengers but also a bit of overkill.

The most important part of the system is the plastic bag, they are made up of multilayer sheets, some are airtight, one to melt together and seal and the outer one is a heavy protector.

I hope this helps.

Have fun

Craig
AnswerID: 234205

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 15:40

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 15:40
We have an Orved brand vacuum sealer - made in Italy. Uses any vacuum bags. Bought from the Butcher Wholesalers in Adelaide for about $300.

The butchers cryovac is no doubt better (their machines cost over $3000), but we have been very happy with what ours has done over the past 2 years. The most we have kept red meat for is 3 weeks, and it was as good as the day we packed it. We also prepare other food and seal it - pieces of pumpkin and coleslaw keeps nicely in the cryovac bags without refrigeration. I even cryovac the odd LandCruiser spare parts, like wheel bearings!

If you want to cryovac casseroles, stews etc, you'll need to freeze them first and then vacuum pack them.

Good bags cost about $30 per 100 from the wholesalers.
AnswerID: 234237

Follow Up By: Flight Sargent - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 16:10

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 16:10
We got our unit on Ebay excellent unit dies a great job at vacum sealing cost us about $80.00 including post to WA.

SARGE
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Follow Up By: ross - Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 11:53

Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 11:53
Phil I doubt the butchers machines are better,they are just faster and the pumps are built to do long shifts in big plants where they do thousands of pieces daily.
As long as there is no air left,it is doing its job regardless of size;)
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Reply By: Member - outback2 (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 20:24

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 20:24
We have an Orved cryovac machine..Had for 6 or 7 years...Just be careful because every now and again you can have one let go a couple of days after you have sealed them..this has happened to us and causes a few issues

now before we go bush we seal our meat at least 3 days before and check it carefully just before we pack it in the camping fridge on the day we leave...the slightest hint of a leak and that pack doesnt go

Life is a journey, it is not how we fall down, it is how we get up.
VKS 1341

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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 22:47

Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 at 22:47
Do you use bone protectors?
We do, & haven't had one "let go" ever.
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Reply By: Outa Bounds - Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 08:58

Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 08:58
We thought about getting a machine a while ago, and then kind of forgot about it. This thread has reminded me again. I think it's a top idea.

I have only just started looking into it again and remember looking at the brand advertised in 4wd mags previously, sI eemed rather expensive.

Here it is, it was called Vacuseal, wow talk about expensive! First model is $350 next up is $500. Anyone got one of these, worth the money?

www.vacuseal.com.au/

This seems to be the pick of the bunch on Ebay, Food Saver brand sells for around $100 plus postage, anyone got one and what do you reckon?

Site Link

I know you generally get what you pay for, but no point paying top dollar for a bunch of features you may never use.
AnswerID: 235848

Follow Up By: turbopete - Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 11:21

Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 11:21
Vacuseal is the unit I have, I use it every day for keeping the dog food I am very pleased with it....There is something different about "cryovac" I read that some gas is injected to help with long life
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Follow Up By: Outa Bounds - Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 11:39

Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 11:39
Can you buy standard vacuum seal bags from any supplier or do you have to get them from the vacuseal people?

Asking as I came across this sort of website which look like decent prices for the bags - but only in lots of 1000!

www.cellobags.com.au/vacuums.html

I think I would probably end up tossing between the ebay food saver model and vacuseal, unless I find a few more for comparison
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Reply By: Outa Bounds - Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 09:07

Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 09:07
Here is another cryovac type machine - domestic one on special for $250, commercial ones start at $1000

Site Link
AnswerID: 235852

Reply By: Outa Bounds - Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 09:08

Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 09:08
Here is another cryovac type machine - domestic one on special for $270, commercial ones start at $1000

Site Link
AnswerID: 235853

Reply By: turbopete - Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 11:24

Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 11:24
The plastic (lexan) containers are great also a bit expensive but great
AnswerID: 235875

Reply By: Outa Bounds - Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 13:10

Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 at 13:10
I thought I'd share my progress so far.
Vacuseal has great customer service, as far as answering email inquiries promptly anyway. I asked about the bags and confirmed that you have to use their particular bags.

The ebay unit is made in china as expected, seems reasonable any cost savings would be the initial purchase price and ability to use other or standard sorts of bags and cheaper non patented vacuum seal variety. Of course this unit costs half of what you pay for a Vacuseal base model but as a result it has half the suction power as well - that's 0.035mpa compared to 0.8 bar. (0.035mpa = 0.3 bar). I guess this means that it may not suction some things well enough or otherwise would just take longer to do the same job.

So there you go, you do get what you pay for but I still haven't decided weather the cheaper one would be more versatile and do the vacuum packing job adequately enough.

In china it sells for around $66 according to the conversion rate, so there is a mark up in the $100 ebay price.

Yes I research stuff obsessively prior to purchase at times!
AnswerID: 235899

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