Tow ball recovery

Submitted: Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 20:16
ThreadID: 44614 Views:4538 Replies:9 FollowUps:29
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Has anyone seen this:eek:

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If your going to use the towball(which you shouldnt ) you dont really need the shackle as you could just attach it to the towball.
How can he be sure ALL tow balls will take 12.8T?
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Reply By: Hairy - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 20:30

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 20:30
Gday,
I would have thought the only problem with using your tow ball would be the strap can slide off easy, with the shackle it cant?
Cheers
AnswerID: 235178

Follow Up By: Kevern - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 20:38

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 20:38
The problem with this is tow balls are not designed for this type of force and are therefore likely to snap causing the shackle to become a missal.
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 20:59

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 20:59
Im obviously out voted here but I reckon that is exactly the sort of force tow balls are designed for. (may be not 12 tonnes though) Infact where the shackle pulls from now has less leverage on the ball than would be there while towing.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: ross - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:22

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:22
Hairy ,there are some harrowing tales of towballs breaking off,I think Willem on this site has one stored away in his memoirs somewhere.
It went through a tailgate and became embedded in a car fidge.
Ive also seen a pic of one that went through a Pajero into the the cabin.
Im sure others will have more.

The problem with towballs is they are not tested to the same standards as other recovery equipment.
Lifting and recovery equipment also has a safety margin which is usually a 1/2 1/3 or 1/4 of the minimum failing point .In this case they are stating the failing point of the towball rather than its SWL

Sounds like a meal ticket for a lawyer when someone gets hurt. I think the importer will be the main course .
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:42

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:42
I personally wouldnt buy one in a million years because its just another bit of crud you dont need to carry. As for the safety side of things I think its like most things, anything can be dangerous in the wrong hands.
I dont think the product will fail but rather your tow ball. If you have a good quality tow ball that is rated higher than your strap you shouldnt really have a problem. But again, I reckon its a crap idea anyway.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: ross - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:55

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:55
Its the problem with the towball we are concerned about. Im not sure if you can equate a trailer load with a recovery load as the latter are often done with a little slack in the line. Whereas a trailer is hard fixed to the vehicle.

I agree its a worthless piece of crud and it just as easy to wrap around the towbar close to the chassis if there is no recovery point available.
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 00:25

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 00:25
" If you have a good quality tow ball that is rated higher than your strap you shouldnt really have a problem "

Gday Hairy,
Towballs are either 2500 or 3500kg; Straps for 4wds are 8000 to 12000kg.
Therein lies the problem.
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 06:37

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 06:37
HAiry,
Towballs aren't designed to have the sort of streess that snatch straps can apply. It's a different "force".

Cheers

Brian
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 10:09

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 10:09
Gday
Yes, I am completely aware of the possible dangers and I would never use this method for snatching a vehicle out of a serious bog.
I just think that someone has come up with an idea that he thought was good and tried to make a few bucks out of it and was about to get shiit canned for it.
Just because you have a new place to tie a rope doesnt mean you should try and pull Christ of his Cross with it.
It sounds to me like they have had it tested by some "NATA" mob.
And if you used it within its limitations (dont snatch cars out of bogs if you have a cheapy tow ball) you should have no trouble.
He does tend to market it as a HEAVY recovery point a bit rather than a point to tow from but surely anyone with half a brain knows a chain is as strong as the weakest link?
Im not for or against it, as I said I would never buy one. If just seems people these days are always quick to blame a product for failure rather than the operator.
I you think you might be tempted to do something stupid with it, dont buy it.
Any way thats my rant for the morning...time to go and do something.
Cheers

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Follow Up By: kimprado - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 19:44

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 19:44
Hairy

You ranting again? Must be Global warming.

LOL

Regards

Kim
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Reply By: Member - Vince B (NSW) - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 20:30

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 20:30
Hi Ross.
Looks like a time bomb ready to explode!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vince
AnswerID: 235179

Reply By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 20:39

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 20:39
Great that you don't have to remove the towing hitch. That should save about 20 seconds.

Ultimately all to force will be transferred through the receiver pin anyhow. Why introduce other elements which could fail?

Might be handy for towing light loads if you don't have the Hayman Reece style hitch, but I think I would still be reluctant to use it for a snatch recovery.
AnswerID: 235180

Reply By: BennyGU - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 20:43

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 20:43
You can get an hitch insert for $40.00 that fits into a Hayman Reece Style reciever that is a fat block of 50x50 alloy with a 6.0 tonne rated shackle mounted horozontally through it.

DO NOT USE THE TOWBALL, I cannot believe people are even contemplating this!

Common sense is dead
AnswerID: 235181

Follow Up By: Middle Jeff - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 20:55

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 20:55
What Benny said, that is the scariest thing I have ever seen.

Have fun

Craig
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Follow Up By: MartyB - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:37

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:37
Benny,
I cannot understand why any would waste $40 on one of these.
Just take the toungue out & just use the standard pin to hold the snatch strap.

Marty.
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Follow Up By: BennyGU - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 23:10

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 23:10
For starters,I am not prepared to stand around pulling my towbar and then p!ss farting around threading the strap around the pin if I've just sunk the rig in a place like Eli Creek.

The loading of the standard pin in the form you advocate (IMHO) is suss as the pin is designed to have the load spread across its entire length or near the strong points in the hitch boxing, depending on the design of towbar you have, and not in a way which could have an extremely large jerk applied unevenly off centre. I'd reckon there'd be a decent chance that cou could tear the mountings of the pin and then have both of them as missiles. Thats not before we start thinking about how to put the towbar back in if you've bent the pin............assuming of course you are not carrying a spare one LIKE everyone does.

I've spent my money and nothing I've seen tonight has made me doubt that the alloy blob is the best method to be able to recover with your towbar.

$40.......jeez someone must have you by the short and curlies.
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Reply By: OtherBrother - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:30

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:30
1 Pull out the hitch pin.
2 Then remove (in one piece)
the hitch
the towball
the washer
the nut
the highly priced PoS
(no disassembly required - all items remain together for easy re-installation or , in the case of the last mentioned item, recycling at your next garbage collection day)
Five potential points of failure have now been removed.

3 Push the recovery strap up the receiver and re-install the the hitch pin.
4 Proceed

When re-installing after a few dozen goes, a brand new rated hitch pin could be utilised, if you've got a spare $5.
AnswerID: 235196

Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:55

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 21:55
OtherBrother
Good .....you have removed all the points of failure except 1 ...the bloody Strap, Tom Kruse and Sid Kidman managed without them
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 23:21

Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 at 23:21
Didn't Kidman ride a horse????

To the best of my knowledge? nowhere to attach a snatch strap on horse as yet. :-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 00:03

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 00:03
John
Yes he did ride a horse , and a fine Horseman he was , He also had huge Horse Sales at Kapunda, biggest in the Southern Hemisphere, but when the Motor Car arrived he travelled the Channel Country in a ...I think a Ford T or a Dodge , I did read the the book about him . I don't recall reading about Snatch Straps and winches, Radial Tyres , and fridges,.

Doug
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 00:34

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 00:34
Doug,
A strap failure is less likely to be lethal than failure of a recovery point. So the strap should be the weakest link, and hopefully everything is stronger than the forces being applied.
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 00:37

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 00:37
And ever seen someone try to snatch a horse out of a bog??
Well I've seen the odd bogged cow, and thats not a pretty site - they bog right down to the udder :-))
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 06:41

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 06:41
There is a possibility of the pin bending. requiring some fancy cutting to get it out. This HAS happened, but is still preferable to launching towballs through the air!

Cheers

Brian
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 20:47

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 20:47
John,

"To the best of my knowledge? nowhere to attach a snatch strap on horse as yet. :-)"

There is if it is a stallion :-))
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 20:56

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 20:56
Ouch!!! Trev poor bloody horse :-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Rossco td105(WA) - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:25

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:25
Sorry all,

Late follow up, but agree with above, remove as many possible points of failure and insert snatch strap into Reece receiver, would rather combat snapped snatch strap than tow ball/large shackle! I have never bent a Reece receiver pin and have never had to worry about a tow ball smashing/denting someone's (or mine) windscreen or head.

Common sense should prevail...

Ross.
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 23:01

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 23:01
Found a link where a horse was snatched out of a bog :-))
link text
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Reply By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 09:38

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 09:38
The web site below is a Pommie site and the self styled expert has many pages about 4wding with Landrovers.

Site Link

I have copied a few lines from one of his pages and you will see that he advocates using a tow ball to attach his tow strap, on another page he repeats the instruction. - bloody amazing ! I saw a 2006 date somewhere on the web site so it is not an ancient forgotten one.

And in case anyone is in doubt I am VERy firmly in the Don't EVER do it camp.

Are You Attached

by David Bowyer
Welcome to my new pages on recovery techniques. There is a lot to write about as the subject is huge, whether your interest is Greenlaning, Off-Road competitions or simply on-road towing.
Whenever you are attaching ropes with shackles for recovering or wire rope hooks for being winched, it is vitally important to make sure that you are securing to a proper recovery point fit for the job, using BZP (Bright Zinc Plated) 8.8 high tensile bolts.

I will always remember many years ago, during ice and snow, I passed a Reliant Scimitar that had slid off the road into the verge. I naturally stopped with our Range Rover and offered my help.

Out came my tow rope which I duly attached to the Range Rover's tow ball. I asked the Reliant driver where he wished me to attach the rope to on his vehicle as there was no front recovery point. He said "It's OK to secure the rope to 'that tube' under the spoiler". .........................

AnswerID: 235242

Follow Up By: Russ n Sue - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 12:00

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 12:00
You have to be a little bit careful here. The Range Rover and Land Rover Discovery 3 have a different tow hitch structure to those that we see on Japanese vehicles and the British towball structure is totally different to the "Reece" design shipped to Australia (which, as everyone agrees, should not be used for recovery.) The British towball is a one-piece affair made out of cast metal and rated at 3.5 tonne (although it would almost certainly withstand more.)

Mind you, why wouldn't you use the recovery points already fitted to the vehicle?
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 12:40

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 12:40
Hi Russ & Sue, Yes, good point. I was thinking of the 'normal' type tow ball.
Have seen the diagonal braceing on the tow bar assembly pulled right off a Rangie though.
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Reply By: Member - Olcoolone (SA) - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 10:41

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 10:41
Shear strengh, the pin holding your square towbar tounge in is made of 16mm mild steel bar and fair enough it's in a double shear sitiation adding to strengh, a tow ball has a 25mm shaft in a sigle shear situation but I doubt you will even come close to the shear strengh.

A piece oh 40mm x 25mm thick mild steel with a 20mm hole on the centre has a shear strengh of over 25 tons.

Most snatch situations only generate a fource of about 1.8 to 2.5 tones at the recovery point.

Most tow ball will take over that 12.8 tons force with ease.

The main reason it's not recommended to use a tow ball is the chances of the strape comming off and also no manufacture will warrant the tow ball for that, proberly in the design criteria for a tow ball it would be designed to be used only as a coupling device that has a male and female part (socket and ball).

It's like a tyre on a car and you have a blow out for no reason, the chances of getting it replaced under warranty is very high, but use the same tyre for a swing base over a river and the tyre splits and you hurt your self BAD LUCK it was not designed for that....it's all to do with risk managerment and lowering the risk factor.

Regards Richard

Regards Richard
AnswerID: 235256

Reply By: Chris & Debbie - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 11:58

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 11:58
The only reason I can see not to use a tow ball as a recovery point is that the strap could slip off, I dont buy the augument that they are rated at only 2500 or 3500kg so you should use a recovery hitch or just the receiver pin. If you want to use that argument then what is the rated load of the towbar itself?
Chris
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AnswerID: 235271

Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 15:04

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 15:04
Good point about the towbar itself. Mine's only 3,500kg.

Are we all missing the important point here!!!!!!

Can someone shed some light on why snatching off a towbar is acceptable practise?
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Follow Up By: Cammo - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 17:20

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 17:20
I am not 100% sure, but i don't think your tow bar is "rated" to 3,500kg.

You may be able to tow 3,500kg, but I think that is in relation to the weight of your car, not the strength of the tow bar.

Different towbars aren't fitted to different cars, yet all cars have different towing weight restrictions.

In addition, towbars are fitted directly to the chassis with multiple high tensile bolts. The likelihood of all of them failing is pretty low and hence that is why it is acceptable to recover off the tow bar.
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Follow Up By: disco1942 - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 18:56

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 18:56
There is another thread going on this subject - see "Should towbar recoveries be banned?" which is message 44637.
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Reply By: V8Diesel - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 18:16

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 18:16
Post 44637 follows on from this. Anyone care to comment?
AnswerID: 235350

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:29

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:29
i agree, it does....

Andrew
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 23:10

Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 23:10
boom boom
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