Deaths from towball recoveries
Submitted: Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 20:21
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ross
According to the Queensland dept of fair trading there were 2 deaths in 03 and 05 .
One from a tow hook and one from a tow ball whilst being used inappropriately for recoveries.
Site Link
Reply By: Willem - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 20:37
Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 20:37
What about deaths from infection after stubbing toe while doing recovery??
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Follow Up By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:39
Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:39
Very good point, Willem. We need to form a committee to investigate the statistics ;-))))
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 08:40
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 08:40
Dont you think you should do a study to see if its worth running a conference on the possibility into an inquiry. Or May be start a panel to select a board to run the comittee of people who have no idea about the subject they forgot because they were to long winded getting to the realy issue of commoon sense???
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 12:25
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 12:25
Hi Hairy, Unfortunately there is nothing common about common sense :-))
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Follow Up By: ross - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 17:10
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 17:10
I posted the link because most people on this
forum consider safety as a 1st priority when they visit remote spots with their families.
For many people attaching straps and recovery to their vehicles will possibly be the 1st time they have added a considerable load to a recovery device.
Maybe Willem,Bware and Hairy and any others who seem to think it trivial can post up some evidence to the contrary showing it a safe practice to attach recovery gear to towballs.
Thought you would know better Willem ,I seem to remember someone in your group propelling a towball through a tailgate and embedding it into a car fridge some years back in
Darwin.
Forgive me if I am wrong LOL
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Follow Up By: Willem - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 17:35
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 17:35
My apologies
Ross, but I needed to inject some mirth in to the thread.
Your thread has merit.
It wasn't a towball but the the missile was just as dangerous..... LOL
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 17:42
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 17:42
Gday
Ross,
Like wise
Ross, but I think any one who reads the recent threads could only come up with one conclusion......Dont use your tow ball as a heavy recovery point unless your sure you know what you are doing or its absolutely necessary.
A few of us might have had a bit of a joke about it but Im sure only good will come out of the thread in general.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: ross - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 21:16
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 21:16
Its ok ,i just didnt want newbies going away thinking its ok because the old habnds think its something to joke about ;)
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Reply By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 20:41
Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 20:41
Thanks
Ross. I really apreciate that link and have passed it on to a training team as current examples of dangers when doing recoveries.
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Follow Up By: Rob from Cairns Offroad Training & Tours - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:52
Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:52
I would never even consider using a tow ball as a recovery point. Cheers Rob Berrill
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Follow Up By: Member - Tim - Stratford (VIC) - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 23:33
Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 23:33
Rob,
Does that mean you use your Tregg hitch and pin....
:-)
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Reply By: Wisebyname - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:01
Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:01
The deaths will always be recorded BUT, how many near misses were there that don't get reported/recorded?
There's probablly 1000's of recoveries across QLD alone and the majority done safely.
Andy
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Follow Up By: Mark- Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:24
Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:24
Plenty of safe recoveries have been done with tow bars and/or balls.
Used sensibly, a ball IS safe to use - the shear strength of a tow ball is much higher than that of the receiver pin which is also loaded in shear. However, IF the ball fails, the consequences can be greater than if a receiver pin fails. I wouldnt hesitate to use a ball for light to medium recoveries.
There are many bullbars out there which would be torn from their mountings long before a tow ball sheared.
Without knowing the cirmcumstances surrounding the incident involving the ball, its hard to say what the cause was - automatically assuming that the ball thread is the weak link in a recovery is bad science. In the incident quoted, they may
well have been trying to recover a bulldozer, using a large chain.......who knows........
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 07:54
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 07:54
Are you willing to bet your life on that Mark ?
Unrated tow balls made who knows where are an absolute no-no. That's the ONLY way that you can be sure that what you are doing will not kill or maim someone.
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Follow Up By: ross - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 21:28
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 21:28
Mark I have seen pictures of towballs propelled through body panels on Pajeros and into the internal lining on the opposite side
You cannot gauge just by looking at a situation and tell whether the towball will take it.
Ill be honest ,Ive used it to tow cars out of petrol to the garage or up my driveway when something has no engine.
But watching people do deep sand and mud recoveries using the towball with spectators standing around chills me to the bone.
Last 3 people I have helped all wanted to do towball recoveries "but not with my landcruiser mate,you can stay there"
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Reply By: Member - Jack - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:03
Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:03
2 : 16,000,000 ??? Not bad odds. Seems most people are getting it right .. or getting lucky.
Still, I am sure there is an insurance executive out there somewhere who could justify a hefty premium rise on those odds.
Jack
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Follow Up By: Willem - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:47
Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:47
LOL
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Reply By: Member - extfilm (NSW) - Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:25
Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:25
After browsing a few posts about this topic, I thought I might drop my 2 bobs worth in.
Back in the reckless days prior to "Safe Work Method Statements" and over 35 years ago my father worked as a tree lopper for a local council. After cutting down a tree the norm was to attach the stump to the towbar with a chain and simply pull out the stump. The stump had been loosened by a digger first. Now Gum trees generally have an easy root system to pull out in this manner.
Not this time the towbar detached from the truck and landed on his foot. The boot had to be removed from his foot in hospital. All he got was a major bruise. He was one of the lucky ones
BUT What was he thinking?
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Follow Up By: Mark- Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:40
Monday, Apr 23, 2007 at 21:40
Fair point but a chain attached to a tree stump is going to put a FAR greater shock load on a tow bar than a snatch strap attached to a vehicle. No critisism of your father, but it emphasises the need for common sense rather than blanket statements like "never use a tow bar or tow ball for a recovery"
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Follow Up By: Sea-Dog - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 09:06
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 09:06
The main difference with a chain and snatch strap is that the strap will propel the broken bit at incredible velocity towards the other end...
It was lucky he was not hurt worse but if it had been a strap he could well have been killed..
There is a link on our club website to a vid with a bull bar going south for winter during a recovery attempt when a cruiser is stuck half way into a running stream of water..
Site Link
Have a look at how fast that bar dissappears from view!!!! Holy crap.. can you imagine being in the line of fire of that thing..
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Follow Up By: Member - Vince B (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 09:56
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 09:56
Hi Sea-Dog.
Thanks for the link.
I will send the info to our club members.
Regards.
Vince
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Follow Up By: Member - Rossco td105(WA) - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 10:20
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 10:20
Morning,
Just a quick query for you Mark, (and I'm still relatively new to all this, so it's just that, a query!) a chain as far as I'm aware doesn't stretch that much, so should only load up the attached point on the vehicle with the force applied by the vehicle. A snatch strap on the other hand (by nature of design) multiplies the force applied by the vehicle to "snatch" out the stuck object by storing energy (kinetic?) when it stretches. How would this not put more load on the recovery point than that of the chain?
These couple of threads are very interesting.....
Ross.
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Follow Up By: Member - Duncs - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 12:22
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 12:22
The question the video link raises in my mind SeaDog is how well attached was the bull bar.
Mate of mine used to work fitting
accessories to 4wds. the mob he worked for specialised in tow bars and bull bars. He often commented on the number of both he saw that had not been properly installed. Frequently not all the bolts had been put in. Does it really need 6 bolts to hold it on or will 4 do. I can't remember which vehicle it was but there was one on which it was common to find that the tow bar, engineed to be installed using 8 bolts was installed with only three. To get the others in you apparently had to remove shock absorbers so they were mostly just left out.
Now how many readers are now going to stick there heads under the car and check this stuff.
Duncs
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Follow Up By: disco1942 - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 17:28
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 17:28
Ross
The initial stretching of the snatch strap reduces the initial shock to the attachment points than would be experienced by a chain.
PeterD
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Reply By: dawesy - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 10:17
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 10:17
Interesting link, particularly:
# It is dangerous to attached a snatch strap to a vehicle's bumpers, bull bar, axles,
suspension, steering rods, or a trailer hitch ball.
# NEVER connect a snatch strap to a conventional tow bar, tow ball or tie down points. They are not designed to withstand the severe forces created by snatch straps.
The noise is about towball vs receiver pin most of the time. I think you'll find they are against both.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 12:24
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 12:24
Dawsey, I am not arguing with most of your good thoughts but have you considered that if the tow bar has been attached properly and uses crush tubes and grade 8 bolts etc. it can be a lot stronger then just attaching a hook to a chassis rail on one side of the vehicle. The bar spreads the load to both sides of the vehicle as a bridle strap would. By connecting to both chassis rails the bar also reduces the twisting moments when the pull is offset to one side. Also the gradual (relatively) build-up of load on the vehicle using a snatch strap is a lot more gentle then the instantaneous load exerted by a non-stretch strap.
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Follow Up By: dawesy - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 12:30
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 12:30
I agree with you. I use the pin method and have had no issues over a number of snatches. Only one was a seriously bogged car, and it was mine. Half way up the frond door in a bog-hole, mostly water but muddy bottom. Pulling me out backwards tow bar to towbar, and then mine hit the ground. Instead of a suicidal run-up causing damage, we did some digging to clear my towbar, and did the recovery in about 10 or so goes, each moving me no more than half a metre, sometimes less.
I think it all comes down to not being an idiot when recovery time comes, particularly when snatching.
I was only trying to say that if you say the above link is a good reason to not use a towball, you have to strongly consider it's also a good reason not to use the towbar at all! I think in the end though, you and I are on the same page!
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Reply By: donnnnny - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 14:53
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 14:53
i have a vtab accreditation through the nsw association,and have been involved in training and education for many years now. with out any doubt toe balls should never be used as a recovery point. i have now got into the habit of using cable breaks in all recovery situaions reguardless of
weather they involve winch cables or sling shots using cable. we throuw them over our snach strap recoverys as well
better safe than sorry
donnnnny
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Reply By: RobAck - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 16:22
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 16:22
In looking at the comments on this issue perhaps I can add some salient points.
There is an Australian standard/competency that we train to in order to reduce risk and it clearly identifies that the use of a tow ball is dangerous and never to be done.
Tow balls are designed to take a vertical load only and are engineered to that design alone. Hooking a snatch strap to one is courting disaster as identified in the article.
Use of the tow receiver and the hitch pin is quite suitable as it is designed to take a lateral/horizontal load. Hence the use of receiver blocks with either recovery hooks or bow shackles. The only issue to be aware of is that you need to run a file around inside the receiver to take off the sharp edges otherwise they can cut through the snatch strap threads whic promotes premature failure.
The correct identificaton of recovery points at the front of many vehicles is not well understood and many people confuse the wire tow/tie points for recovery and they are not rated. No hi-tensile bolts then no rating on that point. For example the current model hi-lux has no front recovery points. There are now aftermarket ones available that take a bow shackle and so allow for a bridle to lessen the recovery load on the car.
I hope that helps with the discussion.
Regards
RobA
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 19:07
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 19:07
One other point for any 'home made' reciever type arangement to attach a recovery strap to; The hitch pin holes need to be about 30mm back from the open end edge of the metal. If anyone wants the actual calculated figure I will dig it out for them. I think it is rather logical that there has to be a minimum amount of metal around the holes to stop the pin distorting or even breaking out the holes.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 20:22
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 20:22
Wouldnt tow balls be designed to take a horizontal load also?
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 21:52
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 21:52
Hi Bonz,
Yes they do take horizontal load but they don't seem to be rated and they do have a history of failing when used as a recovery point. You can't identify the grade of the metal in most cases but you can with the standard markings on bolts.
The torque value on the threads is also important as a lot of the attachment strength is actually the clamping effect between the faces of the steel and not the sheering strength of the bolt.
If I could find test information and a standard that they have to be tested to we could put this problem to be bed once and for all :-))
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Reply By: ferris - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 17:35
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 17:35
A work colleague was bogged in his Jackaroo and hooked the snatch strap onto the tow ball behind the recovery vehicle. The tow ball
broke, and came back through the windscreen smashing into his shoulder, just above the heart. His shoulder was smashed to pieces and he spent many weeks recovering. Had the tow ball hit him 1 inch lower, he would have been killed...They never found the bottom half of the tow ball.
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Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 20:24
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 20:24
Is there a rated point on the front of a 100series without a bullbar?
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Follow Up By: ross - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 21:20
Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 at 21:20
Rated points usually stick out like dogs tails;)
I was looking at the new v8 7* series last week and it now has 2 tow loops that dont look as strong as the old hooks bolted to the chassis,even though they had no rating on them.
I suspect these tow loops are just for towing it home.
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