The Canning Solution.

Submitted: Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 06:39
ThreadID: 45296 Views:2620 Replies:6 FollowUps:12
This Thread has been Archived
From what I have read on this forum about the permits for the Canning I think I have the solution.

The AN4WDC are charging a fee for the information that they have put together and will allow us to down load(40x A4 pages).Maps and other information on the CSR, a bit of history and the fauna and flora in the area.
They will also want to know our names, vehicle details and when we are travelling.
They will also advise us of what areas are closed and what area that are open that we can still visit as long as we have a permit.
The permit will be issued upon receipt of the permit fee, so there is no other restriction on getting a permit other than you have the money to hand over.
The fee will only go the the AN4WDC so that they can recover cost to issue the 40 X A4 page information pack.

So what if we just email the AN4WDC and let them know who is going, what vehicle, when we are going and that we understand that there are places that are at present closed to the general public and that we will not go there and that the places that are still open to the general public that we might be visiting them on the trip. We have also got all the maps and information on the area so there for don't require the 40 page document and will not have to pay the fee.

After all they only have to know who is going there and when.

BTW, if they did charge us for the permit, and we did pay, would the AN4WDC be liable for any personal injury that might happen on the CSR. They have accepted money and have given permission for us to be there. Does that make them liable?

Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Redback - Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 07:22

Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 07:22
Sounds pretty reasonable to me, whether people adhere to all the new rules and permits, only time will tell.

I think they need to get that bloody website running properly though.

AnswerID: 238998

Follow Up By: Member - Ross A (QLD) - Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 08:53

Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 08:53
Sounds real reasonable to me. My question, how are they going to police it if the locals are not in on the deal? Are they going to pay somebody to become CSR police, maybe that is what the $50 per vehicle is, or they may turn it into a toll road


FollowupID: 500049

Follow Up By: Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. - Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 09:04

Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 09:04
This is a world gone mad . They have set up a system to charge people to go there . They will get none of the money and the people going there will get 40 pages of bumph .

Maybe they should charge more money so that they can employ someone to go round picking up the beer cans and disposable nappies .

FollowupID: 500050

Follow Up By: Member - Ross A (QLD) - Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 09:24

Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 09:24
I don't want there 40 pages of bumph as Willie puts it. I just would like to be able to do what, I, as a pure bred Aussie, feel I should be able to do and that is travel to where ever I want to in MY country, naturally respecting (a forgotten word in today's langauage) others cultures and rights. Apparantley that is too much to asks for these days.

Not so Cheers

FollowupID: 500060

Follow Up By: Redback - Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 15:46

Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 15:46
Member - Ross A (QLD) posted this followup

Sounds real reasonable to me. My question, how are they going to police it if the locals are not in on the deal? Are they going to pay somebody to become CSR police, maybe that is what the $50 per vehicle is, or they may turn it into a toll road .................

How the hell would i know i'm like you, reading all this for the first time, ask the 4wd crowd that are running the permit system not me!!!!!

FollowupID: 500111

Reply By: Alan W - Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 10:48

Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 10:48
Hi Wayne,
Thought I write to give my perception on all this permit system.

But firstly I just copied a extract from a document from anfwd website titled Canning Stock route expeditions and public access. You will find this document by going to anfwdc homepage clicking on access update at the Canning stock route tab.

The Canning Stock Route is a public access easement and does not need a permit to travel its length, provided sites subject of aboriginal native title are not entered. The vast majority of travellers however, after researching its history, plan to visit many special sites both along and off the easement. For most but not all of its length, it is about 8 kilometres wide (5 miles). Moving off the track for camping should be limited to less than two kilometres. The Martu people are very concerned about the protection of their native title rights and interests. Their adjoining lands may not be accessed except with a permit. Unquote.

I had hoped the permit system is to protect aboriginal sacred sites and their history,
Also I was hoping that the revenue generated could have been put back into the stock route in the form of restoration of wells or improving facilities in high usage areas. But maybe there's more to it than meets the eye.
Now, as I read it, this statement has raised a different issue, namely native title rights.

Maybe this permit system is a way of stopping people pegging out a vast area of aboriginal land and then claim it as theirs though , maybe, adverse possession.

Anyways, what i read above is if you stick to the Canning easement ie 8kms or 5miles wide there is no fee to pay. If you want to venture off the track, as we want to do, then you need to get a permit. A bit like driving up a highway and pulling into a caravan park to camp or museum.

On another matter that raised my interest was somebody mentioned what happens if you were delayed getting to the Canning as your permit has fixed dates.
The below is also a extract from the same document as above.

Travellers on the road can utilize facilities at Wiluna & Kunawarritji Aboriginal Community (near Well 33) to access the ANFWDC site and purchase a permit. Printing costs will be payable to the proprietors at these locations before downloading. Unquote.

At Kunawarritji or Wiluna you may be able to change your permit dates to suit your needs.

Also Wayne as you are leaving in a couple of weeks, if the permit system is not up and running by then, you can purchase there. As much as you hate it.

I would like to add that the above extract of documents were last updated 12/08/06 so the information could be outdated.

Also Wayne I like to ask you what expected fuel consumptions figures are you using and how much fuel do you intend to carry? And are you going Nth to Sth or vise versa?

Thanks for any information.


AnswerID: 239042

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 18:26

Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 18:26

I have read that extract many times. It is the only information available and as you say it was dated 12/08/06.

Applying for a permit at Wiluna or Well 33 is good, but what if I come in from Newman along the Tallawana track and turn right at Well 22. How will I get a permit then?

There are a couple of things wrong with the purchase of the permit at Wiluna or Well 33. Say I was a tourist coming in from overseas. You arrive at Well 33 to find out that you know need a permit to go any further and I have already travelled past some of the restricted area. What is going to happen then?

Stepping down from soap box again.

To answer you question,

South to north, I will leave Wiluna with 280lt of diesel, at Well 23 taken on 205lt. What will not fit into the tanks will be carried in jerry cans until required.
In the past we have averaged 190lt per vehicle to Well 23. To date all the vehicles have been diesel and mostly 6cyl turbo.

How much to take is very hard to say, because of the unexpected. Last year we sold 20lt of diesel to a vehicle because he was running out. As it was he did run out 15km short of Well 33 even after the extra 20lt. I would rather take too much than not enough.

Have a good and safe trip, the CSR is like no other track in Australia.


FollowupID: 500140

Reply By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 10:55

Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 10:55
I was born in this country, and I don't see why I should have to have a permit to travel on any track , I would not be going into anyones home or back yard, some other Australians don't need a Permit to drive down the Kwinana Freeway or the Logan Motorway, Where's the Equality,
What's a permit.....a piece of paper with some type on it, does that stop people from throwing rubbish out or damaging others property, spray painting rocks and signs, even taking signs and plaques, NO it don't .

gift by Daughter

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 239043

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 22:08

Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 22:08

Don't the trucks you drive in front or behind of need permits to drive on roads and tracks, or have things changed?

Also try driving over East and not having to pay a toll to drive on some roads,

same thing just different color...

FollowupID: 500209

Follow Up By: Redback - Friday, May 11, 2007 at 08:15

Friday, May 11, 2007 at 08:15
One of these days you'll make sence Doug T,.....maybe!!!!
FollowupID: 500247

Reply By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 11:54

Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 11:54
Did you read my story in Post ID 45167? (reply 7). Makes interesting reading on the matter...
Michelle Martin
Marketing & Customer Support
I.T. Beyond Pty Ltd / ExplorOz

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 239057

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 17:55

Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 17:55

I did read that post and that is what made me think of this idea. If all they need to know is who is on the CSR, which we have always done in years gone by, why a fee for information that we already have.

Why the AN4WDC were chosen to run this is still beyond me.
They were not set up to handle such a project.
It has taken months and they still have not met there deadline.
I would like to have a count on the number of hits between this site and theres.
It is a pity that you are not going to that meeting so that the delays, fees payable and the feelings from the posts from this site could be brought up and debated.

I have not seen the permit as yet, but if it is downloaded from the net what is stopping some one from copying the same permit over and over again.

There should have been a 12month moratorium on the restrictions to places on the CSR. We have advertised the trip which included the Calvert Range and was to go for 26 days. People have booked and paid for this trip as it was advertised. In fact we had 3 bookings before I had finished the trip last year for this year.

Now we cannot deliver and there is an additional cost to what we have advertised.(Permit Fee). An act of God, the weather, a major vehicle break down, we can handle but not a act of incompetence
If they want to apply restrictions and a new cost tell us now and we will be able to plan our trips next year around the new information. It is very hard to do anything 3 weeks before the start of the trip.

The AN4WDC is, in my opinion, not a professional organisation and does not realise the implications of there actions.

FollowupID: 500133

Follow Up By: jdpatrol - Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 18:22

Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 18:22
Just read Michelle's previous post and my blood's boiling already!! I have read of a number of groups in Wayne's situation too. Just not on.

In my world when you cant perform in a contract you have to write to the 'Principal' (Native Title holders here) and acknowledge that. I think AN4WDC need to give it up.

I recommend all concerned :
-write to AN4WDC requesting they give up right to award CSR permits (to Exploreoz, competent local operators etc).
-affiliated with 4wd clubs around the country request their respective state associations write to AN4WDC requesting the same.

I also reiterate my view that 1 month duration is unworkable. Also, compared to Desert parks pass ($95 for 12 months), which is a glossy booklet with v.good info and accurate up to date maps, that in comparison a CSR download for $50 sounds pretty average.


FollowupID: 500138

Reply By: Mal Watson - Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 21:24

Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 21:24
As a matter of interest, what tyres do you use, not on your rig details.

AnswerID: 239158

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 21:28

Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 21:28

I have been running Cooper STT in the past, this year I will be trying a set of Cooper ST.

FollowupID: 500198

Reply By: Crackles - Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 21:46

Thursday, May 10, 2007 at 21:46
One small issue you forgot about Wayne in your permit proposal. Could you really expect the AN4WDC to administer the 100's if not 1000's of applications for no cost? Without some goverment grant there would need to be some cost to cover the secretary, phone & computer.
What unfortunately was started as a well meaning proactive attempt by them to retain access to the popular areas just off the Stock route has unfortunately got a little too complicated for all involved to administer. Ideally access should have remained as in previous years until a simple fully working permit system was in place but that is unfortunately not the way of the bureaucracy.
Although a little slow I haven't had any issues with the permit system in place for many of the other Aboriginal lands I've travelled. Send in a list of cars & people with the expected transit date & they send out their 5 page handout that makes it clear where you can & can't go, what you can't touch & take home etc, even travelling & safety advice. All simple stuff it would seem but in reality with the large numbers of travellers now both local & overseas it needs to spelled out to many who simply have no idea or no respect for the people or whose land they are travelling.

Cheers Craig...........
AnswerID: 239167

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Friday, May 11, 2007 at 07:50

Friday, May 11, 2007 at 07:50

Working for GDT I know how many permits Vic Widman requires and how much fees are been paid.
For us to go through any National Park or State Forest in Australia we have to be licenced and pay a fee. This also applies to areas that the public can go to with out paying any fee at all.
We have always applied for a permit or let the land owners know that we intend to pass through there lands. We have done this with the CSR, and don't have a problem in doing this. It is all part of running a tour company.
What we do have a problem with is 3 weeks before the trip starts we find out that areas are closed off that we have advertised that we will be going to.
We don't like areas being closed off but accept it. A 12 month moratorium would have been better.
Having a permit will not stop the irresponsible form doing the wrong thing.

FollowupID: 500244

Follow Up By: Crackles - Friday, May 11, 2007 at 10:24

Friday, May 11, 2007 at 10:24
Yes Wayne well aware of the fees for permits imposed by States & individual Parks for tour opperators & although a burdon, are probably neccesary to regulate the industry to a standard. It is a pitty that a simpler system can't be found for company's that cross park boundry's & State borders as dealing with a dozen authorities for one trip adds unnecesary cost & is APITA to administer. Certainly not helping tourism as is closing access to the 2 main highlights of the Canning. As a participant I suppose one could expect a partial refund for the tour not delivering what was advertised, something the bureaucrats gave little concideration to.
Hope Vic can some how get a last minute exemption for this season being an accredited & respected tour opperator.
Cheers Craig.......
FollowupID: 500274

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (11)