Do diff locks improve traction in sand?

Submitted: Friday, May 25, 2007 at 09:55
ThreadID: 45869 Views:23232 Replies:12 FollowUps:8
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In past posts on lockers quite a few people list one of the main benefits of them as being better when driving up sand dunes & beaches yet ARB make no reference to engaging them in sand in their operating manual. So what's the consensus, in or out for sand?
Cheers Craig............
HZJ105 Twin lockers.
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 10:13

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 10:13
I have no doubt that they do Craig.

You know a lot of this stuff is a bit academic until it counts.

When I was cross countrying near Madigan line, totally by myself and the
wheels dug in and I got bogged in fine soft sand , well I figured I had
just one chance to get it right, so I took my time set everthing up carefully
and damm well engaged both diff-locks and well - I'm here answering this post.

Robin Miller
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Reply By: Tony MD - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 10:13

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 10:13
Crackles. In our Simpson Crossing last year I experimented with diff locks on and off. I found that I could tackle a scalloped Dune at a slower & more comfortable speed with the rear locked up. The difference was noticeable by the reduced sand flag & antenna movement on our vehicle when compared to others.
Locking up the frond was of no benefit due to lack of steering.
Cheers, Tony - HZ80J Twin ARB lockers
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Reply By: traveller2 - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 10:20

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 10:20
Yes locking the rear diff makes a huge difference when the tracks are scalloped from others with too high pressures and travelling too fast.
Because normally the wheels lose traction as the vehicle rocks from sides to side digging the ruts even bigger, with the diff locked you can maintain a slower, easier speed as momentum is not lost by losing traction.
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 11:36

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 11:36
Craig
You better believe it, as for a reference as to where you use it, well that's your choice,

Doug
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 11:45

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 11:45
Craig

Have a read of this article mate and I'm sure you will gain some benefit from it, also my 4x4 webpage has some more Diff Lock info you browse through

Site Link

members.westnet.com.au/dtilley/4X4.htm

Doug
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 12:23

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 12:23
Some great tech info on lockers there Doug but still no mention or recomendation for or against their use in sand.
Cheers Craig.........
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 13:27

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 13:27
Geez Craig how do you want the info Served , Chilli or Tomato sauce , do you want Chips as well, what about Salads.
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 14:56

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 14:56
Sorry Doug if the information on the site links didn't quite line up with the post "Do diff locks improve traction in sand?" And no I didn't want Chilli, Tomato sauce, chips or salad, simply just exploring the times a locker does & doesn't work in sand, nothing else.
Cheers Craig...........
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 15:17

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 15:17
Craig
This seems to be getting nowhere, I'LL this then , I have Auto Lockes both ends , The differnce it made in getting over Dunes was twice as easy, I didn't have to charge it just make sure your in the right gear, and the most important part is Tyre Pressure, If the tyres are to tight then the lockers are of no help, yes you will get a feet further than a non locked vehicle and thats all , but once the pressure is down to 18/20 psi it will do the job, but don't expect it go over some of the drift I encountered in the Simpson Easter 06 , , mate there is a limit you know , Now put your lockers in and go and enjoy the dunes , but remember fully locked ARB Air's will react hard in the steering unlike the Auto's , , My choice would be True Trac Auto in the Front and ARB in the rear, Now it's up to you ,

Doug
Oh and I have eaten all the chips and salad.
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 17:45

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 17:45
Thanks Doug, that was the type of personal experiences I was hoping to bring out in this thread. Certainly has been a hotly debated topic around the camp fire in the past & there doesn't seem to be just one answer particually when different powered cars, types of lockers & approach speeds are thrown into the equation.
In my case engaging the air lockers in the 105 series does nothing to get me any further in sand until the speed is under 5 kph probably as the 1HZ engine doesn't have the power to spin the wheels until then :-)

Cheers Craig.......
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Reply By: Crackles - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 12:11

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 12:11
I'm certainly in agreement that to get started after being bogged & driving slowly over uneven scolloped dunes that a locker (particually the rear) is advantagous but I'm probably more questioning the need to use at speed when driving up a dune or down the beach as many have recomended in the past. I find even at slow speeds when turning, the difference in wheel speed can cause the tyres to dig in when locked up. On a Border track trip a 4.8L petrol Cruiser in our group failed to get up with both lockers engaged while others with open diffs had no issue. (same tyre presures/same approach speed)
Cheers Craig..........
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 13:02

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 13:02
On that particular score Craig I believe there is some validity
in not using a front locker.

I take a different approach, and do not engage front diff lock
under sharp turns on any surface, whereas the rear diff lock engaged
assists the turn, particularly in sand - and this is a reason it
will always be selectable locks for me.

In a previous GQ I spent most of an afternoon trying to get up Big Red
and car had a front Lockrite.

It easy to say but I actually did 12 seperate runs -( onlookers said 20)

I tried everthing and after a few runs in became obvious that
I kept getting into trouble or the last left hook near the top.
(That left hook around the tussock is visible in members photo 5)

I concluded that front locker under power was causing understeer
preventing me from taking the turn properly. And by the time I
got around I had to little momentum for last rise.

What helped me in seeing this was that I would make it to about
the same spot in 2wd , which effectivily removed the understeer action.

Recently we were at it again and whilst the 4800 I have now has the power to keep
going I was able to demonstrate quiet convincingly that in 4wd with rear locker
on I could kick out the back end to re-algin car on that left hook and get over
more easily.

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Reply By: Member - Doug T (W.A) - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 13:30

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 13:30
Craig
It's obvious you did not read the article

Site Link

Now read it again FULLY
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 14:47

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 14:47
Yes read it again Doug & I still say a great general article but the one & only short reference to use in sand (When in sand or mud the fitting of a locker to the front will have a greater effect) seems to be contridicted by Robin & my experiences that lockers can often get you less distance up a dune when used, so "In pratical terms, a vehicle with front and rear diff locks" may not always get as far as an ordinary 4WD can in some circumstances.
Cheers Craig..........
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Reply By: The Landy - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 15:02

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 15:02
Hi Crackles

I was looking at this same question just recently; so referred to the owner of Maxi-Drive diff locks as I had them in my previous Defender. I asked did he think they would make any difference in sand and his view was that it would be marginal, as sand mostly requires momentum.......at least that was his view and most likely could have sold me another rear set-up had he said yes!.

Cheers.
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Reply By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 15:15

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 15:15
There was an artical in 4x4monthly not that long ago and they had all the same vehicles (defenders) some with arb lockers, some from the factory fitted, and some with out front rear so on & so on. They all went the same distance with or with out lockers. The main thing was momentum (right foot down). They did mention I think for memory the rear locker they were able to get out of the tracks theys were following easier instead of the usual front wheel wanting to keep on following previous ruts. Regards Steve M
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Reply By: Willem - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 18:07

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 18:07
Craig

I do not have Diff Locks and cannot answer your question.

This thread is interesting as so many advocate rushing a dune. Now that was my style in the early days but over the years I have learned to take a more subtle approach. Lower tyre pressures, even down to 13psi, make for sand driving heaven. Yes you may encounter a big mother sanddrift and get stuck, but in general, low tyre pressures, the right gear and a 'STEADY' right foot will get you over most dunes. Of course there will be some which are impassable and you will have to find an alternative route.

This year I am testing the crossplies out on the Simpson so we shall see how things turn out...lol

Oh yes, and I tow a bush trailer out there as well.

Cheers
AnswerID: 242361

Follow Up By: Crackles - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 18:15

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 18:15
I actually thought that a locker may be of some advantage when towing in sand particually with the trailer drag causing the vehicle to break traction a little earlier.
Maybe someone else has experience with that ??????
Cheer Craig......
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Reply By: Member - Rossco td105 - Friday, May 25, 2007 at 21:12

Friday, May 25, 2007 at 21:12
G'day Crackles,

From a not too distant experience returning to beach camp site late at night near Cape Arid. Tyre pressures were low (round 16 P.S.I.) but tide was in and had to travel on soft sand at top of beach. Started to bog down and stopped with no forward or reverse movement. Turned both lockers on and holding few revs managed to slowly drive/churn through soft section and continue on to camp. Believe they helped get us through, wife a little stressed but no big drama.

Only time I've had to really rely on them in sand.

Rossco.
AnswerID: 242406

Reply By: Member - Bucky (VIC) - Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 05:00

Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 05:00
I do not have diff locks, but at the bottom of Big Red, last August I seen a 78 series, tricked up ute, with diff locks on, try to tackle it, with speed..
Result 10 attempts and did not get up there.

After we all got up with 15 psi ( and no diff locks )

Finally, he turned off his locks, dropped his tyres to 15 lbs and he got up too.

My message is that diff locks have their place, but just because they are there, they will not be your savior, just extra backup.

I have been told that you " crawl " with them on ,,,but as I said before I'm no expert

Cheers Mate
Bucky
AnswerID: 242458

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